Book 2 – Page 81

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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby Housellama » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:06 pm

BCCroaker wrote:Yes I know that, still a goundhog is a beast and I'll bet there are frontier recipes for it.
0beron wrote:
BCCroaker wrote:However I have a question for the USA members of this forum - what does roast groundhog taste like? Or is it better braised?

Um....what? Im so...I don't even...what?
You know that on Groundhog Day, we don't actually EAT a groundhog...it's not like Thanksgiving being "Turkey Day"


There are just too many possible food based puns that can be made with the words ground and hog. I'm not even sure where to start, really...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby Saladman » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:28 pm

BCCroaker wrote:The last panel made me feel happy. However I have a question for the USA members of this forum - what does roast groundhog taste like? Or is it better braised?


"...dark meat with a mild flavor and adapt readily to any squirrel or rabbit recipe," but there's a couple of specific recipes at http://ushotstuff.com/wg/GroundhogSmp.htm Google is your friend. Judging by the preface about soaking or parboiling for older animals, a pressure cooker would be your friend too, soften that sucker right up. (Best not to discuss how I know that.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby 0beron » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:32 pm

...oh the irony of a guy called Saladman discussing how to cook meat :p
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby Kalak » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:46 pm

So, this might have been discussed before--disregard if so.

But, today was the first time I really noticed how completely different the Arkentools are from the scenery around them. They look like they were 3D rendered, flattened, and put on to the comic. As a result, they look more "real" than the people holding them. Is this just to make them stand out, or is it on purpose? Have we ever talked about if the Arkentools possibly came from somewhere else?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby gameboy1234 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:46 pm

Kreistor wrote:Gobwin caster is surprising,



I thought it was perhaps a little green man, maybe Kif from Futurama.
"Do it?" Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby gameboy1234 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:14 pm

BrotherRool wrote: I'm wondering what Parson can do when he gets there now though, Slately has basically been taken care of,


I think Parson will basically end Slately #2 now rather than wait. Remember that there's a huge column that Trem brought with him, which I believe could mop up the remaining Erf forces. The business with Slately was created by Slately himself, when he didn't evacuate the tower quickly enough.

I think Parson will:
1. Use the siege drwagons to clear away the rubble of the tower.
2. Decrypt that huge force of archers that we saw earlier.
3. Croak Slately #2 on the spot.

This means Trem has to be heir, and out of the city before then. Unless Trem gets taken prisoner.


Their [Erf] side is already in control and it seems to be rapidly heading towards clean-up


Remember that's just the air battle. There's still ground forces to deal with. And Slately is making things worse because he insists on engaging, rather than just being smart and retreating from the city. Slately is *trying* to die, and he's going to succeed too.
"Do it?" Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby Urf » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:56 pm

I really think that's Zatanna. I see garters, hips, a bustier, heels, hat.

She could be a Hat Magician, sure, but her schtick is words said backward. If Xin's a contemporary of Ryan Sook, she may be aware of the 7S miniseries, wherein she was able to pierce the 4th wall.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby The Bushranger » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:18 am

BanzaiJoe wrote:Someone said bland suit guy was Ash. Ash is a man, correct? If so, the suit is backwards for a man by American standards i.e. buttoned for a woman. I believe it's correct by European standards. I don't know enough Erfworld story to know much about Ash. When was he/she introduced and aligned?

Er, Ash is the chap in the red cap and "C" shirt, I believe. And he's a Pokemon reference.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby ScotSi » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:58 am

I'm kind of curious about the character in the brown beret and tail coat and black riding boots who comes out of the purple portal in the center of panel 4 and appears to be arriving at the hole in panel 7. That's a very purposeful stride.

I was going to guess Elvis Costello for the suited guy with Jojo, but now I'm starting to doubt the big name musicians theme. After all, the Freddy Mercury candidate is bigger and burlier looking than Freddy was, and maybe that is Zatanna instead of Slash...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby Nnelg » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:19 am

Lamech wrote:How I rate Stanley: Terrible Ruler, 3/10 would not serve again. Luckily for him, the other rulers we have seen have gotten scores of:
Don 2/10: Needs whole set of warlords to stop him from suicide.
Jillian 1/10: Needs everything handed to her.
Slately 0/10: Suicide Charge
Unaroyal's queen: -5/10: Intentionally killed all units, when the "enemy" just wanted to be friends.

So while Stanley isn't particularly competent from our perspective, he isn't the RCCII

How very strange of you to say that, that's almost exactly the opposite order I'd have rated them in.

Slately 9/10: suicide charge
Queen Bea (Unaroyal) 7/10: self-sacrifice and scorched earth policy; saw death preferable to brainwashing
Don 6/10: was willing to put his friend's livelihood above his own
Jillian 4/10: lack of confidence, decisiveness, and level-headedness
Stanley 2/10: extremely vain, possessing of barely sufficient intelligence and competence
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby Pashalik Mons » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:52 am

Zeku wrote:Wanda is getting steadily more sultry, waifish, and...young. It's like power creep, for girls.

Well, to some degree, all the characters have been changing. Getting more realistic proportions and less chibi like in the in the beginning. I think what really makes Wanda's appearance stand out in this page, though, is her expressions. Usually, Wanda looks very composed, very in-command, which bestows upon her a certain air of maturity that makes her just seem like she must be a little older. Here, though, she has three close-up panels where she's shocked, upset, and unsettled, in that order. All of three of these are more vulnerable expressions, very much a contrast to her usual demeanor, and they strip back that air of maturity.

Also, she seems to be gradually losing clothes.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby Oberon » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:29 am

Zeroberon wrote:Well Cubins HAS to use a Hat cus he's a Hat Magician, and the same may be true of Sizemore.
Given Sizemore's daily chores in the cesspit, I'd rather expect all dirtamancers to use some kind of long handled implement. And the longer the handle, the better. :lol:
Housellama wrote:I think that Parson has officially Had Enough.

Boop's about to get real.
Damn straight! It might even be only 20 updates before he actually does something! ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby kagato23 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:00 am

Nnelg wrote:
Lamech wrote:How I rate Stanley: Terrible Ruler, 3/10 would not serve again. Luckily for him, the other rulers we have seen have gotten scores of:
Don 2/10: Needs whole set of warlords to stop him from suicide.
Jillian 1/10: Needs everything handed to her.
Slately 0/10: Suicide Charge
Unaroyal's queen: -5/10: Intentionally killed all units, when the "enemy" just wanted to be friends.

So while Stanley isn't particularly competent from our perspective, he isn't the RCCII

How very strange of you to say that, that's almost exactly the opposite order I'd have rated them in.

Slately 9/10: suicide charge
Queen Bea (Unaroyal) 7/10: self-sacrifice and scorched earth policy; saw death preferable to brainwashing
Don 6/10: was willing to put his friend's livelihood above his own
Jillian 4/10: lack of confidence, decisiveness, and level-headedness
Stanley 2/10: extremely vain, possessing of barely sufficient intelligence and competence


Sacrifice can be, yes. Sacrificing others, not so much (Jillian actually seems to be the one at the top of that heap, actively trying to minimize the deaths of even the mooks under her command, while still willing to do what needs to be done.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby KiltedNinja » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:19 am

benthehater wrote:
Nnelg wrote:
benthehater wrote:I think Stanley was actually trying to say "boop". I think this might hearken back to Parson successfully getting the curse out at the end of Book 1. I makes me wonder about that act, how Parson's vocal defiance to the laws of Erfworld might be reverberating throughout.

Gee, ya think? [/sarcasm]


...

Thanks. I felt there was something special in Stanley trying to say a word that he'd never actually heard before. Or perhaps Parson shouting it making the concept of it mentally contagious to anyone around him even though he was alone and unobserved when he said it. Or that "fuck" is actually an incantation to a spell. Or similarly that "fuck" and other words that got booped out were verboten because of genuine consequences that might come from uttering them.


I actually think this is quite significant also - that and the fact that Stanley remembered Zhopa's name. Previously, we see Stanley showing no care or respect for his important casters, and now we see he's calling lowly servants by their name - This is a marked change in his personality.

But yeah, as for the swearing aspect - residents of Erfworld have never been short of 'rude' words or phrases to use when circumstances call for it... and I agree that Stanley 'searching' for a suitable F* word seems to be more significant than it casually appears.

Also:
Lord Hamster wrote:Let's just get me into this battle right now

Entire cast of Erfworld fan-base wrote:About fuckin time!


*I may or may not be taking artistic liberties with the last quote...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:23 am

KiltedNinja wrote:I actually think this is quite significant also - that and the fact that Stanley remembered Zhopa's name. Previously, we see Stanley showing no care or respect for his important casters, and now we see he's calling lowly servants by their name - This is a marked change in his personality.

Sigh, but again, it already had started much earlier. Before his tactical retreat, Stanley doesn't know hios mancers name. Then when he returns to GK he starts making an effort to remember the name of his important units, followed by trying to remember his lesser minion's names, to the last update. It's been a gradual evolution.

KiltedNinja wrote:
Lord Hamster wrote:Let's just get me into this battle right now

Entire cast of Erfworld fan-base wrote:About fuckin time!


*I may or may not be taking artistic liberties with the last quote...

For one, I would love to just see Hamster charge Leeroy-Jenkins style by now with his new squad of predictmancers. In particular because you don't want to spend too much time planning when there's an army of thinkmancers at your side that can probably read your toughts.

kagato23 wrote:Sacrifice can be, yes. Sacrificing others, not so much (Jillian actually seems to be the one at the top of that heap, actively trying to minimize the deaths of even the mooks under her command, while still willing to do what needs to be done.


Eeerr, until very recently Jillian was kinda the queen of sacrifice. In her own words, she thew away all her units able to talk to their deaths just to save her own hide, and then in almost every engagement she starts by ordering an ally to throw itself into the enemy jaws so she can get some free hits. She's just trying to conserve her current units because she doesn't know when she'll find another idiot like Don who'll offer her a new army in a silver plate. Meanwhile, she did ditch both Wanda and Jetstone.

Now if people count sacrificing everything you have just for the sake of pride as "good leadership", then yes Stanley is an horrible ruler. I would still choose to work for him any day of the week than any of the prideful royals that would sacrifice me in an heartbeat just because it's the royalish thing to do, regardless of survival odds or tactical advantage.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby drachefly » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:38 am

Frell? Frack? It's on the tip of my tongue.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby Aquillion » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:43 pm

One interesting thing in this page: Stanley seems to actually approve of Parson going into battle. At least, he doesn't seem to object to that part of it, only to the fact that he's been detained.

kagato23 wrote:Stanley 2/10: extremely vain, possessing of barely sufficient intelligence and competence
I think that Stanley is the Peter Principle in action -- we know that he earned his position as an overlord by serving as a competent warlord, and he earned his position as a warlord by being a competent piker (before he found the Arkenhammer!)

Everything we've seen indicates that he's actually quite competent at fighting and small-scale tactics. He's just no good at overarching management or long-term strategy. And he knows this -- look at how eager he was to abandon his capital and go off with a small group. I think it's because the part of his life when he led a small group around conquering things for his side was probably the time he was happiest.

His ego makes him want to be an overlord, but I don't think he even particularly enjoys it.

(This might also explain why he understands Parson's desire to go into battle himself, since Stanley feels the same way in his heart -- though for very different reasons.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby 0beron » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:48 pm

Aquillion wrote:[Stanley is] just no good at overarching management or long-term strategy.

Would you say then, perhaps he has "no head for finance?" :p
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby Nnelg » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:44 pm

Aquillion wrote:
Nnelg wrote:Stanley 2/10: extremely vain, possessing of barely sufficient intelligence and competence
I think that Stanley is the Peter Principle in action -- we know that he earned his position as an overlord by serving as a competent warlord, and he earned his position as a warlord by being a competent piker (before he found the Arkenhammer!)

I did say "barely sufficient", didn't I? It's the only thing keeping him from 0-1/10.

oslecamo2_temp wrote:Now if people count sacrificing everything you have just for the sake of pride as "good leadership", then yes Stanley is an horrible ruler. I would still choose to work for him any day of the week than any of the prideful royals that would sacrifice me in an heartbeat just because it's the royalish thing to do, regardless of survival odds or tactical advantage.

I agree with you there. However, the only person on Erf that we've seen do anything of the sort is Lord Firebaugh. (Jillian too, if you count shortsightedness combined with hotheadedness as a form of 'pride'.)

As for Queen Bea's infamous... "abdication", I have mixed feelings on the matter too. Her deed amounts to a mass 'mercy' killing, in the face of a fate worse than death.

You have to understand how decryption looks from the RCC's point of view. How would you feel if zombie Winston Churchill (or the heroic figure of your choice) came up to you and begged you to ally with Hitler's undead army, while constantly spouting Nazi rhetoric to boot. Pretty unnerving to say the least, no?

To them, decryption is an unprecedented abomination on the scale of The Holocaust. Total and irresistible brainwashing, becoming a slave -a WILLING slave- to the will of callous sorceress. To become little more than a puppet dancing on strings woven of spite, a harrowing fate from which not even death can offer deliverance. To suffer the forcing of others to this same doom, and even to do so with a macabre *grin* on one's face.

Can it truly be a wonder why Queen Bea saw her last act as the only sane recourse left to her? Under no other conditions could she be excused for her actions, and perhaps she still cannot be; but moral dilemma aside, what she did was not stupid from a strategic point of view.

In a scenario in which one's fallen rise again as warriors for the opposing side, any battle with no more than a 1:1 kill ratio actually gives the enemy more forces than he started with. Even a 2:1 isn't good enough by itself, especially when you're already at a disadvantage. A scorched earth policy, while usually calling for a retreat and regroup, at least ensures that the next guy on the list (Jetstone) won't be any worse off because of you.

But the true effect lies in the shock value. For starters, it'll get the word out that something's up fast, even to people who wouldn't listen to words. It provides the tragedy necessary to halt petty squabbling. It galvanizes the defenders, and saps the enemy's morale. Most of all though, it delivers an ultimatum to both sides: there is no middle ground in this one. (Whether there actually is or not is irrelevant for this purpose.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 81

Postby BrotherRool » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:16 pm

Kalak wrote:So, this might have been discussed before--disregard if so.

But, today was the first time I really noticed how completely different the Arkentools are from the scenery around them. They look like they were 3D rendered, flattened, and put on to the comic. As a result, they look more "real" than the people holding them. Is this just to make them stand out, or is it on purpose? Have we ever talked about if the Arkentools possibly came from somewhere else?

It's mentioned in an FAQ or on the Wiki or Wikipedia or somewhere :D They're deliberately rendered in 3D to make them look completely different from everything else in Erfworld. It makes sense in-world for them to be that, since they're special worldbreaking items supposedly handed down from the Titans. I don't know what you mean by somewhere else, but if you mean stupidworld then that'd require a huge tone shift where everything gets explained in relation to the real world, because they're items with stats and powers, why should real world pliers allow unlimited croakamancy? And if you mean 'not Erfworld', 'given by the Titans' is really the only instruction you need, because if Erfworld is basically a fictional world, then another world could be absolutely anything and it wouldn't give it much more meaning, because there aren't established other worlds with other worldy rules.

Sorry, I shouldn't be saying this, my Erth knowledge is shockingly poor compared to the guys round here and I'm sure I've made umpteen mistakes :D
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