MichaelR138 wrote:[The RCCII leaders] knew how powerful GK was
No they didn't. They knew that GK had survived Ansom's storm, but they could not have suspected that they had become more powerful than ever before. They didn't know about decryption, so they could only have assumed that GK's expansion into Unaroyal was driven by Stanley's dwagons; dwagons which would have been almost spent by the time they got to Unaroyal's capitol, leaving GK's new territory ripe for reconquest by conventional means.
Besides, the RCCI was an alliance of necessity, not friendship. Stanley had gotten a bit too big for his britches, and needed to be taught a lesson. Well, he got reduced to a singe city which itself came within an inch of being lost. Lesson taught: he won't be conquering anyone again soon. It's not like that battle would've left many of his troops alive...
MichaelR138 wrote:King Don bet his whole future on Jillian, and lost.
He lost? Jillian isn't dead yet. Sure, Jetstone may well be dead soon because of her, but even so she's still got plenty of time left to prove herself.
MichaelR138 wrote:King Don even knew he was wrong in trying to make the loan because he told Slately that it would break him to do it and only gave in because of the emotional appeal, not for good strategic reasons.
So you're placing the value of friendship and honor below that of self-preservation? I guess that's ok, if you're fine with that. I certainly wouldn't be able to argue which is superior without doing some serious deep thought first.
MichaelR138 wrote:SLately is working hard to die heroically and pass the side to his son Tremmenis. But he will utterly deplete his side of units in doing so, leaving Tremmenis to fight a heroic last stand with few resources and no money in a doomed effort for a now doomed side. Had Slately listened and done what Tremmenis said, they could have left with most of their forces in good order and at least salvaged a draw from ths battle and still had a resonable chance of holding off GK
Ah, but you see the two problems cancel each other out. With all those units gone, there's a lot less upkeep to pay. And who says that Jetstone put its entire army at Spacerock? Odds are that Jetstone City itself has a comparable garrison, and you can bet that Jillian won't abandon them this
MichaelR138 wrote:Queen Bea if she knew she was goign to lose without fighting, why not put all the treasury int he purses of yoru warlords and casters and send them over to Jetstone so that they could use them instead of just ending the side. Melodramaitc and stupid waste of her side and their assets.
The warlords would've been easily intercepted by archons and dwagons, but for the casters I'm not so sure. Perhaps they grew weary of war in general, and she wanted to grant them a favor for all their hard work, who knows. I think though that she could be forgiven for not planning this in detail seeing as she just spent a few hours talking to her undead daughter
MichaelR138 wrote:[Stanley] at least has not dismantled his own side and its forces by his own stupid actions
Um... Yes he has. That was the whole reason why they had to summon Parson, remember?
oslecamo2_temp wrote:0-Most units in Erfworld are willing slaves already. Basic troops pop up completely fanatic to their current ruler and will mindlessly charge at anybody else that comes nearby unless directly ordered otherwise.
1-Like already pointed out, Turnmancy and Thinkmancy already allows one to brainwash enemy units. Which Jillian herself has been using and abusing recently, but the Royals don't seem to mind it at all. Because Jillian herself is a royal, so her brainwashing is awright.
2-Decrypted are gone for good if they die a second time, and Ossomer certainly didn't serve with a grin on his face.
3-Also like already pointed out, Bea could've still salvaged something (or lots) out of the situation even if alliance with GK wasn't an option.
0. If you truly cannot see the difference between being fanatic to the side you were popped to, and fanatic to the side that killed you then animated your corpse, then I don't know if I can help you.
1. I think they're more or less preoccupied at the moment, if they didn't have a FAR
greater evil to worry about, they'd probably have some harsh words for her.
2. Ossomer did until GK broke the parley truce, and others
3. Hindsight is always 20/20. Parson could have whipped up a plan on the spot, but Queen Bea had just suffered through a very harrowing experience. The daughter she had lost and mourned had just come back singing praises of her killers.
GJC wrote:Y'know, this conversation seems to be less about the actual competence of each ruler and more about the degree to which they get in the way of the people whose job it is to make these calls. Stanley's just on top because he either doesn't interfere or because he's dumb enough to outsmart him when he does.
"The Ruler who governs best is the Ruler who governs least"
- Thomas Jefferson
+1001 to that. Stanley is the best ruler because he gives more freedom of action to his subordinates than any other ruler. Do you think any of the royal dudes would ever give command of their troops to a filthy non-royal? Even Don has fallen into sending his non-royal warlords into suicide missions.
In contrast, you don't see Stanley bankrupting his side or ordering Hamster to perform suicide charges just because he's in a bad mood.
Neither have I seen others do such things frivolously.
Nnelg wrote:You have to understand how decryption looks from the RCC's point of view. How would you feel if zombie Winston Churchill (or the heroic figure of your choice) came up to you and begged you to ally with Hitler's undead army, while constantly spouting Nazi rhetoric to boot. Pretty unnerving to say the least, no?
To them, decryption is an unprecedented abomination on the scale of The Holocaust. Total and irresistible brainwashing, becoming a slave -a WILLING slave- to the will of callous sorceress. To become little more than a puppet dancing on strings woven of spite, a harrowing fate from which not even death can offer deliverance. To suffer the forcing of others to this same doom, and even to do so with a macabre *grin* on one's face.
Not buying this.
The attitude of the average unit towards his Side is pretty much the same as this so called "total and irresistible brainwashing". And both are only able to be thrown off via turning to another Side which will also control the unit and their thoughts and willpower just as tightly. AND, prior to decrypting most captured units were simply killed because they just didn't have enough value to the captor Side to warrant turning them. With decryption at least a captured unit is valued more than that.
Imagine if zombie Hitler came up to you and begged you to ally with the US army, while constantly spouting Patton's rhetoric to boot. Pretty unnerving to say the least, no?
The only difference between your horror story and mine is that one side is considered to be "right", and the other "wrong", but the "total and irresistible brainwashing" is the same in either case, and it's just as frightening no matter the perspective.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. My point was that this was how the RCCII see it; whether or not you or I think that it's really that horrible is irrelevant. They see what they believe to be right being twisted and perverted towards what they see to be wrong.