Okay, this may be a dumb question, but

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Okay, this may be a dumb question, but

Postby GJC » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:46 am

Does popping units actually cost anything?

We hear a lot about "rates of production" for various cities, but never is it explicitely mentioned that you actually need to pay for them. And this would normally be enough for me to assume that you don't need to pay, but I've never played a strategy game where producing units didn't cost something. Not to mention that it is heavily implied sometimes. Like, say, in this text update
http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... ration.png

Vanna had been the perfect solution. Having a Turnamancer reduced the production of an heir by twenty turns, and with funds coming in from Transylvito, Vanna was able to boost Otoh and Kibo's production drastically


That implies that they wouldn't be able to produce at a higher rate without extra income. Therefore, income is necessary for production. Of course, if this was the case, you'd think it would have been mentioned explicitely at some point. Though I may just have missed the bit where they mentioned it explicitely. So does anyone know?
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Re: Okay, this may be a dumb question, but

Postby 0beron » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:51 am

It may simply be referring to a couple of known facts that are related:
  • Jillian can't afford Vana's upkeep on her own, so Transylvito might be paying her upkeep, thus allowing the cities to produce faster
  • Upgrading (and perhaps modifying) cities requires shmuckers, so Jillian could be using funds from Transylvito to optimize her production capabilities physically.
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Re: Okay, this may be a dumb question, but

Postby GJC » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:03 pm

Jillian can't afford Vana's upkeep on her own, so Transylvito might be paying her upkeep, thus allowing the cities to produce faster

I had considered this, but I'm pretty sure that Charlie is paying for Vanna. It even says so right beneath:
Don King was very happy, though he would not be if he ever found out it was Charlie who had funded Vanna's contract.


You could make a point that upkeep does not equal contract, but the text update indicates that the money from Translyvito has a direct role in funding the units, rather than just indirectly funding Vanna.

Upgrading (and perhaps modifying) cities requires shmuckers, so Jillian could be using funds from Transylvito to optimize her production capabilities physically.

This could work but doesn't seem likely either. Cities are cities. If she were using the money to upgrade those, that'd be stated.

And honestly, the more I think about this, the more it seems like units DO cost something.
On the very first page, we hear that the marbit tribe could "afford an extra squad of axemen" with the gem they found. So we know that natural allies can pop units by just paying for them. And the text updates support this, come to think of it, what with Stanley repopulating the Gobwin tribe. So is this something only natural allies can do?

And what's up with Charlie's bounties? WOuld he be offering up OVER NINETHOUSAAAAAND shmuckers for Archons if he could pop them with nothing but a time investment?

Edit: I'm honestly not sure right here, it just seems super weird for a strategy game to not have units cost anything but production time and upkeep.
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Re: Okay, this may be a dumb question, but

Postby drachefly » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:50 pm

GJC wrote:And what's up with Charlie's bounties? WOuld he be offering up OVER NINETHOUSAAAAAND shmuckers for Archons if he could pop them with nothing but a time investment?


He doesn't have a bounty on archons. He has a bounty on decrypted archons.

And free popping does fit with popping being involuntary, which again leads into the economic pwoble... problems of Erf.
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Re: Okay, this may be a dumb question, but

Postby GJC » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:40 pm

drachefly wrote:
GJC wrote:And what's up with Charlie's bounties? WOuld he be offering up OVER NINETHOUSAAAAAND shmuckers for Archons if he could pop them with nothing but a time investment?


He doesn't have a bounty on archons. He has a bounty on decrypted archons.

And free popping does fit with popping being involuntary, which again leads into the economic pwoble... problems of Erf.


Sorry, I meant ransom, not bounty. Charlie pays over 9000 shmuckers for the safe return of his archons from captivity.

It's in one of the book 2 text updates, right before Charlie intimidates haggar.
Edit:
http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -03-19.png
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Re: Okay, this may be a dumb question, but

Postby drachefly » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:14 pm

Oh, right!

Well, if he's popping them at something close to the maximum rate, then it's worth it if the archon is expected to net more than 9000 schmuckers over its remaining lifetime (... before being captured again). That's not hard to believe.
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Re: Okay, this may be a dumb question, but

Postby Saladman » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:04 pm

GJC wrote:And honestly, the more I think about this, the more it seems like units DO cost something.
On the very first page, we hear that the marbit tribe could "afford an extra squad of axemen" with the gem they found. So we know that natural allies can pop units by just paying for them. And the text updates support this, come to think of it, what with Stanley repopulating the Gobwin tribe. So is this something only natural allies can do?


Part of that we knew from having it spelled out explicitly. Natural allies that come into Schmuckers can and must convert them to popped units, rations, equipment or promotions on their next turn. And the very way its spelled out suggests it works differently from regular city production.

Edit: I'm honestly not sure right here, it just seems super weird for a strategy game to not have units cost anything but production time and upkeep.


And yet, that's how a number of strategy games do work, including titles like that look very much like influences on the comic. (Warlords comes to mind, and I want to say Master of Magic and Age of Wonders but I may be misremembering one of those.)

I'm not saying I know for certain myself, but I see no reason to think free pops has anything weird about it. In fact, free unit pops may be just the kind of thing the Titans would do to keep their wargame going, to give new or put-upon sides a fighting chance. Upkeep being the real killer.
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Re: Okay, this may be a dumb question, but

Postby Nnelg » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:44 am

GJC wrote:
Upgrading (and perhaps modifying) cities requires shmuckers, so Jillian could be using funds from Transylvito to optimize her production capabilities physically.

This could work but doesn't seem likely either. Cities are cities. If she were using the money to upgrade those, that'd be stated.

It could be that the money's being used to "rush" production, like in Civilization.
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Re: Okay, this may be a dumb question, but

Postby cloudbreaker » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:01 am

Parson's official duty now was managing the capital city. When a city had a Warlord to manage it, costs were lowered for things like city improvement and production of extra equipment and provisions. It also increased the amount of Shmuckers the city produced, and reduced the upkeep for units which spent the entire turn in the city.

Here is a bit more general city information from the summer updates.
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