Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby Nnelg » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:05 pm

0beron wrote:
MonteCristo wrote:Except for the fact that we know charlie is already around and is one of Faq's competitor's for merc work

That doesn't mean he's not part of Haffaton though. He could be a Haffaton unit, Haffaton's RULER even, or just allied with them. And given how much territory Haffaton has gobbled up, they certainly must have cities capable of popping different units than their standard troops, so it would be possible for Charlie to use units not recognizable as Haffaton (assuming he even uses something besides Archons)

I believe one of the recent updates specifically mentioned the WRECD encountering some Charlescomm archons.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby 0beron » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:25 pm

Well then here is where we get into the grey area of Signamancy/Dollamancy, and also questioning what information Command Units are capable of seeing. If Charlie were a caster within Haffaton, or a Barbarian allied with them, he could set his own livery. And because we DO know Commanders don't automatically know the side of enemy units (unless they can identify the livery), then Charlie could be connected to Haffaton without Jillian knowing.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby Lamech » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:47 pm

What if that "unit" is some sort of robot? Stick some sort of multi-use trap on it, give it the ability to walk, some lookamancy and mathamancy/thinkamancy to know what to do roughly, or somehow receive commands. Bam. Something that works as a unit, but isn't. No upkeep, no decay. Now you can expand at will by mass producing them.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby Nnelg » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:55 pm

Lamech wrote:What if that "unit" is some sort of robot? Stick some sort of multi-use trap on it, give it the ability to walk, some lookamancy and mathamancy/thinkamancy to know what to do roughly, or somehow receive commands. Bam. Something that works as a unit, but isn't. No upkeep, no decay. Now you can expand at will by mass producing them.

Then you've got a Golem. And they already produce those at maximum capacity.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby Saladman » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:02 am

Whispri wrote:That Haffaton banner... the similarities betwen it and the livery future era Wanda uses... Well it's short of her actively still fighting in Haffaton colours, but it's pretty boopin' close. In fact, if it wasn't for future era Wanda having to use Stanley's banner, I'm not sure there'd be a difference.


The decayed unit alone sounds like what Wanda might choose for her personal livery, which casters commonly get to put on units they create. So I'm not too surprised she kept a variant of it. The Haffaton - Peace motto, and probably the pink flowers too, sound like Olive's influence on Haffaton's flag. But this raises a question that took a while to grow on me. What did it take for a side that once abhorred Croakamancy and valued peace to incorporate the livery of a captured Croakamancer into their official side's banner? What does it say that their Chief Caster is otherwise influencing their flag, rather than it being a legacy of their ruler's personality or livery? I'm thinking Chief Hippiemancer Olive is the real power in Haffaton, from determining strategy and force composition to openly "suggesting" the banner used. Which is... interesting. I mean, we never saw their ruler on-screen, and we did know Olive was powerful and popular, but I didn't realize how much. Or do they trust Wanda as much as they value her?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby MonteCristo » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:14 am

0beron wrote:
MonteCristo wrote:Except for the fact that we know charlie is already around and is one of Faq's competitor's for merc work

That doesn't mean he's not part of Haffaton though. He could be a Haffaton unit, Haffaton's RULER even, or just allied with them. And given how much territory Haffaton has gobbled up, they certainly must have cities capable of popping different units than their standard troops, so it would be possible for Charlie to use units not recognizable as Haffaton (assuming he even uses something besides Archons)


No remember, Early on in this story Jillian encountered a group of haffaton units and she managed to get away because the haffaton units mistook her group as being with Charlie; its even mentioned that charlescomm itself exists and is Faq's worst rival for Mercenary work. And even if he were working for them, which from the story i doubt, i don't know why a ruler would be hanging out in a lv 2 city in the middle of nowhere.

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:14 am

MonteCristo wrote:We know from book 2 that friendly fire exists

If anyone's wondering when that was: it's how Duke Antium was croaked just before he could croak Wanda.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby Pohsib » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:44 am

My guess is that the still figure in the tower is Wanda's uncroaked brother, kept in some form of permanent stasis which prevents his body from de-popping, but basically makes him no better than a tree (thus referencing in irony his previous fear of becoming such a tree). He'd have no stats as he'd have no greater combat purpose than a statue. She might've hidden him here in some dingy level 2 city to prevent Olive from finding out she's kept him around.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby ftl » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:56 am

Hmm. A level 2 city in the middle of nowhere.

If it has to be significant... could it be the former site of Goodminton?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby 0beron » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:21 am

ftl wrote:Hmm. A level 2 city in the middle of nowhere.
If it has to be significant... could it be the former site of Goodminton?

I doubt it, Goodminton was a winter side, and it appears weather never changes in hexes (that, and "snowy" could very well be a terrain type)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby drachefly » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:33 am

Lamech wrote:Now you can grow plants indoors if they have light which is easy to provide with permanent powerballs.


Or, sticking with PvZ, sunflowers.

Is it just me, or does that livery sound like it should look a lot like typical Grateful Dead artwork?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby BrotherRool » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:59 am

Pohsib wrote:My guess is that the still figure in the tower is Wanda's uncroaked brother, kept in some form of permanent stasis which prevents his body from de-popping, but basically makes him no better than a tree (thus referencing in irony his previous fear of becoming such a tree). He'd have no stats as he'd have no greater combat purpose than a statue. She might've hidden him here in some dingy level 2 city to prevent Olive from finding out she's kept him around.

I'd prefer this. It fits with the creepy vibe and this would be a rubbish way to reveal Charlie's identity. That should definitely be main update.

Plus, we know Charlescomm exists and does mercenary work, so that suggests Charlie has already developed his survival strategy, and him revealing himself in person in some other sides city doesn't seem to fit with that. I guess something could happen to him here that convinces him to go into hiding but I'm not sure. There wasn't any sign of an odd relationship between Jillian and Charlie in the present was there? It would maybe explain why Charlie is being so direct with her, but even if this is Charlie, I don't think she can find that out now, otherwise she would have told people or referenced it towards him?

The only other theory would be that there were other imperfect warlords before Parson and Haffaton were experimenting with them.. Haffaton have been pretty non-standard in tactics and seem to be very successful, so maybe they've been leaning on brought in warlords. Maybe Parson's creation was the culmination of a lot of schemes formed at this time in the world. Haffaton were experimenting with hippiemancy, peace etc and trying to summon people from the other side of the vale (possibly an upkeep thing?) Maybe a bit madscience, which is where Wanda come inAnd then we have the non-violence of Faq and the thinktanks of their casters, and when the side combines they take the motives and predictamancy of one and combine it with the research of the other...
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby 0beron » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:08 pm

I would actually enjoy this being Charlie's reveal, because it would answer questions while creating a lot more, and that fits Rob's portrayal of Charlie. However Pohsib and BrotherRool have a good point with the creepy vibe and other motives that point to it being Tommy.
We know that Stanley had humble beginnings and remained subservient to a Ruler even after obtaining the 'Hammer, so I think it's still possible that (much like Parson, and to a lesser degree Stanley) Charlie is still carving out a name for himself and doing very impressive things despite being "chained" to a Side he doesn't directly rule. I'll be happy even if I'm wrong though, and I agree un-Tommy would be a great possibility for that figure.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby cheeseaholic » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:20 pm

I just assumed that it was a zombie in another zone.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby 0beron » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:21 pm

cheeseaholic wrote:I just assumed that it was a zombie in another zone.

The fact that Jillian and her warlords EXPECT to see it's stats if it were a unit tells us that looking across zone boundaries doesn't block vision of stats.
So whatever that is, it's clearly a special case of some sort.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby drachefly » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:27 pm

I was thinking it's one of the plants. Some of them have facial features, and if it wasn't a unit YET, then it wouldn't have stats. At least, that's what it seemed when I first read it.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby MonteCristo » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:21 pm

I think its just a statue... all this drama about a moving figure is just to show Jillian's level of paranoia in regards to haffaton. She thinks its a trap and keeps expecting a trap and thus is seeing things that aren't there. The writing also allows us to feel what jillian's feeling by building up a false sense of tension... Jillian thinks somethings wrong and keeps expecting a trap and WE think their is something wrong and keep expecting a trap... in the end, we are wrong and this is just what it looks like, a poorly defended city that portrays the negative impact of a side growing too large; the resources that would normally guard this city are instead spent on field units or the defense of more important cities. That's what i think it all is anyway

0beron wrote:I would actually enjoy this being Charlie's reveal, because it would answer questions while creating a lot more, and that fits Rob's portrayal of Charlie. However Pohsib and BrotherRool have a good point with the creepy vibe and other motives that point to it being Tommy.
We know that Stanley had humble beginnings and remained subservient to a Ruler even after obtaining the 'Hammer, so I think it's still possible that (much like Parson, and to a lesser degree Stanley) Charlie is still carving out a name for himself and doing very impressive things despite being "chained" to a Side he doesn't directly rule. I'll be happy even if I'm wrong though, and I agree un-Tommy would be a great possibility for that figure.

I say again... We know that Charlescomm itself already exists and its already a huge supplier of mercenary work and has a very long reach

Jillian's encounter with haffaton wrote:His eyebrows went low. He stroked his chin. "Can't, because you're bound by orders? Or a contract?" His eyes suddenly went wide. "Are you working for Charlie?"

If Jillian hadn't been almost rigid with tension, she might have made an expression of disgust. Charlescomm, with its vast reach and specialty units, was her worst rival for mercenary work. She wouldn't any more work for Charlie than take tea with the enemy.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby junovalkyrie » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:35 pm

In addition to allowing the side to expand while mitigating/diminishing the upkeep issue, having a layer of cities like Diecast along your perimeter could serve a useful military purpose. Because a side is automatically aware when one of its cities are taken even if no units are present (as Jillian mentions in the current update), such cities could act as an early warning system to detects invading forces, giving Haffaton an extra turn or two to get defensive units into place - especially useful with all the strategic options that open up when one such unit is a Hippiemancer who can prevent all attacks within a hex. After all, one or two cities without any useful units is an acceptable loss for a side as large as Haffaton, especially if they result in upkeep issues. Also, while it may be as straightforward as a side that's spread too thin and can't protect its borders, purposefully encouraging the sort of conclusion Jillian draws at the end of the update could also be used as a powerful tool by a side that employs deception and misdirection as parts of its arsenal. Given how Haffaton handled Goodminton, that seems like the sort of thing that'd be right up its alley.

It also gives Haffaton a good pretext to continue expanding if other sides find themselves unable to resist these lightly-defended, treasury-boosting cities.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby Kreistor » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:47 pm

0beron wrote:Charlie is still carving out a name for himself and doing very impressive things despite being "chained" to a Side he doesn't directly rule.


Uhm... what?

http://www.erfworld.com/2012/03/inner-peace-through-superior-firepower-%E2%80%93-episode-028/

Charlie has already been mentioned. Charlescomm exists already. And it's mercenary, and competing with Jillian, so where are you getting all this stuff about being "chained" to a Side? It's totally independent.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 036

Postby 0beron » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:16 pm

Kriestor you either misread that or deliberately took it out of context. I said "it is possible...[stuff in parenthesis]...Charlie is" not that he definitely is. I was just saying it's possible.
As you just repeated despite a few people pointing it out already before you, Charlescomm has been mentioned. I concede that this makes it much less likely Charlie is part of Haffaton in some way. If it was just him mentioned by name, then I'd still argue its possible, but it'd be much harder to create an "illusionary" side.
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