Summer Updates – 023

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby Ichthus » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:44 am

Well, the Retconjuration finally gets rid of the 'Archons can use Deletionism!' argument. Also, wiki has been retconned as well.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby Gez » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:13 am

So, the first use of Retconjuration was deletionizing deletionism.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby Simons Mith » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:43 am

I think I'm going to miss the little pictures that accompanied the summer updates. I hope we still get the odd one every now and then.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby moose o death » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:07 am

jamie probably has rsi from starting work on the real comic updates. i'd like too imagine the story for those is already being drawn so that the a buffer can be made to prevent any unexpected halts. afterall everyone hates those random 3 weeks stalls in webcomics while an artist moves house etc.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby SteveMB » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:33 am

HansR wrote:The retconjured Klog 2 has another probably unintended change: Clevermancy now uses elements Life and Motion, previously it used none.
I assume the Titans will apply some Reretconjuration.

By the way, Klog 3 seems to be missing from the Hi-Res Archives.


That was a glitch from the original posting of Klog 2; I guess it's still there in the Titanic backup copy and comes back when it gets re-posted for some other reason.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby Batman1016 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:12 am

You know, speaking of Retconjuration . . . .

I'm looking at Parson's Klog #2 right now, and the chart says that Clevermancy is a combination of Life and Motion elements, which makes no sense since those are the elements of Eyemancy. The wiki says that Clevermancy is non-elemental, which is what I assume you were actually going for.

Might want to correct that, especially before you put it in the book.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby raphfrk » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:29 am

Batman1016 wrote:You know, speaking of Retconjuration . . . .

I'm looking at Parson's Klog #2 right now, and the chart says that Clevermancy is a combination of Life and Motion elements, which makes no sense since those are the elements of Eyemancy. The wiki says that Clevermancy is non-elemental, which is what I assume you were actually going for.

Might want to correct that, especially before you put it in the book.


I wonder if it was intentional ... maybe Clevermancy needs to have both of those elements for some future plot reason :p
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby Dracolix » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:40 am

Parson's Klog #4, paragraph 2, line 3 wrote:include flight, fire, regeneration, poison...


So does the retcon remove regeneration from the world or just from twolls? because if it's the former then the above line also needs to be retconned.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby DevilDan » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:44 am

Whoa... I always forget how weird Erf really is! I mean, generic henchmen can actually do useful things!
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby name lips » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:23 pm

Retconjuration! I like it! Only usable by Titans...

...does that mean our illustrious artists are the Titans?? I guess it makes a certain sort of sense. :)

I remember Stanley wondering if Parson even has move. I guess we're going to find out. It would be remarkably powerful if he could move any distance he could physically make himself walk. Though he's fat and out of shape... what if has a twoll build a bicycle or other traveling machine? Can he simply go anywhere?

Remember how he wasn't supposed to be able to use the caster-only portal? Either he's a caster... or he's breaking more rules than we realized. Maybe teleportation and "moving" are both in his rulebreaking category.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby nerf-dweller » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:29 pm

shadow729 wrote:
gameboy1234 wrote:I don't think Parson has a "move." I think he just walks, so I'm saying we might get a clue as to how big a hex really is.

Erfworld is not a game. Some of this stuff is real, not just a simulation of game mechanics. So I think Parson's "realness" is going to interact with the world's "gameness" in odd ways. One of which is Parson doesn't (apparently) have stats. He just is. And he walks, he doesn't have move.

I often use game-like comparisons when I describe Erfworld events, but the authors don't consider Erfworld to be a game, it's a "real" place.

My 2 cents, anyway.


I was under the impression that he has stats, just vaguely defined ones that no one knows for sure. I mean, he can't read them, but he is clearly affected by various portions of the game play.


Of course Parson has stats. But with him not being of Erfworld, Erfworlders(?) can't see his stats. Parson isn't part of the fabric of Erfworld. Whatever magic/being/etc governs how Erfworld works had to resort to using Thinkamancy and other magics in order to fit Parson into the role he was summoned to fill. But in the end, the constraints on Parson could not hold him as he isn't of Erfworld.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby Wonton » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:43 pm

Justyn wrote:
Wonton wrote:Ummmmm.... can I just say 'I don't get it'? XD

What's Retconjuration? I'm missing the joke here, obviously.


Take your pick on your explanation: The long and incredibly in-depth Wikipedia article; or, the short, funny, and to the point TV Tropes article.


It all makes sense now. JFK's assassination, Area 51...
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:04 pm

Wonder if Parson will walk alone or take some guards with him. A dwagon so they don't have to walk, and archon to use her natural thinkamancy for prank calls.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:24 pm

nerf-dweller wrote:Of course Parson has stats. But with him not being of Erfworld, Erfworlders(?) can't see his stats.


We don't know what 'Parson has no stats' really means. Consider:

If you think of stats as a measurement of a particular ability, then Parson has stats. For example, if 10 Strength means someone can lift 100 lbs. over their head, and Parson can lift 100 lbs. over his head, then Parson has a 10 Strength.
Parson can increase his Strength by lifting weights. Repetition and training will allow him to go from 10 to 13, because a stat here is just a numerical description of what he can do.

But Erfworld stats might not mean that.

What if Erfworld stats aren't descriptions, but limitations? Move is a good example: Erfworld FORCES creatures to not be able to move after they have exceeded their move, even though they may be physically able to. Units with 0 move can still move, they just can't leave the hex they're in.
Their other stats may work the same way: An Erfworlder's body might be able to physically lift 400 lbs, but because his Strength stat is an 8, the universe actively prevents him from lifting anything more than 80 lbs.
He can lift 79.9 lbs easily, but 80 lbs is completely impossible.

Parson may not have stats because Parson might have no limits, or at least none that Erfworld can impose upon him.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby cservant » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:28 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:Hmm, interesting. Parson thinks he can walk two to three hexes. On road? Over rough terrain? I wonder if we'll get a clue soon how "big" a hex really is.

It feels to me like a hex might be one mile, but a hex could be more. I can walk four miles in about an hour, on level roads (well, sidewalks). I could speculate that Parson is going to walk more than an hour before he has his picnic.

Yeah, and the twoll does seem to have a Russian accent, doesn't he? "Peekneek."

P.S. Retconning is ok with me, esp. when you let us know why you did it.


Average distance is 30 miles a day on level grassland for walking. I've always used this stat. I don't remember where I got it, army manual maybe? Anyways, that would mean for 1 turn he could do 30 hexes. I'm assuming a turn is equal to a day, roughly. Paved roads/sidewalks are a little faster.

We know gwiffons do 50 hexes in air(no mountains), so does that sound right to you?
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby HandofShadows » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:31 pm

I would not say that Erfworld cannot impose limits on Pason. His inability to actually swear is proof of this. And while Parson has broken some of the constraints on him, he has not broken them all as of yet. But I feel sure him will. :twisted:
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby gameboy1234 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:36 pm

cservant wrote:Average distance is 30 miles a day on level grassland for walking. I've always used this stat. I don't remember where I got it, army manual maybe? Anyways, that would mean for 1 turn he could do 30 hexes. I'm assuming a turn is equal to a day, roughly. Paved roads/sidewalks are a little faster.



Parson is in terrible shape, so I think 30 miles in one day may be out for him. Also I think Turns are actually variable numbers of hours. That's a game world mechanic right there. If it were possible to just not end a turn, I think Parson could walk for quite a distance.

And I totally agree that we don't know what it means that Parson has no stats. I'm just speculating here. I think Parson has two types of "stats": those that were given to him by Erfworld, and those that just reflect his own natural abilities. For example: Parson's stat of being level 2, and a +2 bonus to troops as warlord. That was probably given to Parson when he arrived at Erfworld. OTOH, things like Parson's move stat reflect his own physical condition. This could change if Parson gets in better shape.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby SteveMB » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:53 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:Parson is in terrible shape, so I think 30 miles in one day may be out for him. Also I think Turns are actually variable numbers of hours. That's a game world mechanic right there. If it were possible to just not end a turn, I think Parson could walk for quite a distance.

So far, Parson's perception seems to track to "one turn" = "one day". If this parallel is subject to breaking down (for example, if a turn where nothing much happens except that some new units pop while existing units get their upkeep goes by much "faster" than a turn where a battle is going on), it should be fairly obvious in the first few post-tBfGK turns.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby Lothmar » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:57 pm

Every faction gets a 'turn', we dont have the exact order. One side must finish thier turn before the next goes ex: Move actions, production actions, combat actions, others. when the faction leader is satisfied they 'end the turn'. When all turns are finally resolved it becomes 'night' and units recoperate-etc.
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Re: Summer Update - 023

Postby Iklary » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:57 pm

OMG. "Zhopa" for the name?? Who give you this idea? I just can't stop laugthing. You see, in russian "zhopa" means ass. And it's rather rude. And to think about zhopa with two eyes - it's just hillarious. "Hey, Ass, we need to talk. Ass, don't blink at me like that".
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