Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Speculation, discoveries, complaints, accusations, praise, and all other Erfworld discussion.

Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby wrecan » Tue May 17, 2011 6:12 pm

I think by the end of this story arc, Cubbins will work for Parson or whatever side Parson.

It's pretty clear now that Charlie can intercept all thinkagrams (except possibly those encrypted on G-Strings). And I'm pretty sure Parson's going to figure that out too. The story is gearing up for a battle against Charlie (maybe not this book, and maybe not the next book, which seems like it will be against FAQ), but eventually. For that to happen, Parson needs a way to issue orders that don't involve thinkagrams. Cubbins is a hat magician and hat magic is not thinkamancy. Cubbins provides Charlie-proof long-distance communication. So I think Cubbins is going to end up with Parson, either turned, or decrypted, or possibly... on some new side that includes both Parson and Cubbins.

This also means that Maggie is expendable as a character, and I fully expect her to die. Soon.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby Mal » Wed May 18, 2011 11:21 am

wrecan wrote: This also means that Maggie is expendable as a character, and I fully expect her to die. Soon.



How does being expendable guarantee someone's death? The author isn't Joss Whedon after all :p
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby wrecan » Wed May 18, 2011 3:12 pm

It's not a guarantee. It's an "expectation". :-P
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby Keldaria » Fri May 20, 2011 12:20 pm

wrecan wrote:This also means that Maggie is expendable as a character, and I fully expect her to die. Soon.


I think i have to disagree with this idea that maggie is expendable. infact I'd have to say the opposite that she is probably one of the most valueable casters working for gobwin knob (just below wanda).

The thinkagrams and other thinkamancer communications might be considered "Cracked" for all intensive purposes but if you remember parson is all about playing mind games. Imagine what he could do taking into account that charlie is seeing everything sent on an eyebook and/or threw thinkagrams. there are also ways of coding messages to confuse and/or make a thinkagram more secure (execute order 66).

Beyond the ability for parson to use the "cracked" thinkagrams and communications to play mind games with charlie (and the reader). Maggie still has the much unexplored power to "link" casters, I mean think of all the unknown combinations and game breaking abilities parson could come up with by utilizing a link between 2 master casters, better yet imagine if he himself linked up (he is some sort of caster right?), I mean the "perfect" warlord linked with a master thinkamancer and 1 other caster has to be a good thing.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby wrecan » Fri May 20, 2011 1:09 pm

Keldaria wrote:
wrecan wrote:This also means that Maggie is expendable as a character, and I fully expect her to die. Soon.


I think i have to disagree with this idea that maggie is expendable. infact I'd have to say the opposite that she is probably one of the most valueable casters working for gobwin knob (just below wanda).

I didn't mean that Parson of Stanley would think she is expendable. I meant she's expendable for plot purposes.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby Occasional Sage » Fri May 20, 2011 6:08 pm

Keldaria wrote:The thinkagrams and other thinkamancer communications might be considered "Cracked" for all intensive purposes but if you remember parson is all about playing mind games. Imagine what he could do taking into account that charlie is seeing everything sent on an eyebook and/or threw thinkagrams. there are also ways of coding messages to confuse and/or make a thinkagram more secure (execute order 66).


Also, remember that Thinkamancers have other methods of communicating beyond Thinkagrams. Presumably things like Intuition-sharing and such are also compromised by Charlie, but they're all reasonably certain that plucked G-Strings are not. So there are real potentials out there....

Keldaria wrote:Beyond the ability for parson to use the "cracked" thinkagrams and communications to play mind games with charlie (and the reader). Maggie still has the much unexplored power to "link" casters, I mean think of all the unknown combinations and game breaking abilities parson could come up with by utilizing a link between 2 master casters, better yet imagine if he himself linked up (he is some sort of caster right?), I mean the "perfect" warlord linked with a master thinkamancer and 1 other caster has to be a good thing.


Maggie is only an Adept-class Thinkamancer. As is Sizemore. I... don't remember one way or the other about Wanda, though.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby kefkakrazy » Fri May 20, 2011 7:00 pm

If I remember correctly, Book 1 claims Wanda to be a master-class Croakamancer; I think it comes up at the point where she's leading the Uncroaked dance-fight, where Parson is talking.

Yes, here it is, page 127 of the online archive, Parson claims that leading an Uncroaked dance-fight is an ability of a Master-class Croakamancer.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby wrecan » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:30 pm

My epileptic twee is still on track. Maggie croaks in the magic kingdom (just as Parson and Sizemore enter Jetstone, for added angst!), and Wanda and Parson enter and decrypt Cubbins (and the original King Slately!)
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby Nnelg » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:55 pm

Keldaria wrote:there are also ways of coding messages to confuse and/or make a thinkagram more secure (execute order 66).

You know, for some odd reason this just popped into my head: "SET ORDER-88 TO TRUE."

...I think maybe I should get back to my COBOL homework.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby Housellama » Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:32 pm

wrecan wrote:
Keldaria wrote:
wrecan wrote:This also means that Maggie is expendable as a character, and I fully expect her to die. Soon.


I think i have to disagree with this idea that maggie is expendable. infact I'd have to say the opposite that she is probably one of the most valueable casters working for gobwin knob (just below wanda).

I didn't mean that Parson of Stanley would think she is expendable. I meant she's expendable for plot purposes.


Normally I'd phrase this more diplomatically, but are you out of your booping mind?

If anything, Maggie is even more critical to the plot now than she ever was. A Hat Magician cannot do everything that a Thinkamancer can. While a Hat Magician can do communications, a Thinkamancer is far more than that. With the mind games that Parson plays, it's absolutely critical that Parson have access to one. Without one, his capabilities are much more limited, and while working with limited resources is interesting, he already did that with TBFGK. This story is about what Parson can do when he's fully prepared.

Not to mention the fact that Maggie played Parson on the whole Great Minds thing. She was the reason he went into the MK. She cleared his approach, knowing full well that the GMTTA were on their way. True, she didn't know what they were going to do, but that's an unresolved point.

No way Maggie's going the way of Misty anytime soon.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby Whispri » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:52 pm

Housellama wrote:Normally I'd phrase this more diplomatically, but are you out of your booping mind?

If anything, Maggie is even more critical to the plot now than she ever was. A Hat Magician cannot do everything that a Thinkamancer can. While a Hat Magician can do communications, a Thinkamancer is far more than that. With the mind games that Parson plays, it's absolutely critical that Parson have access to one. Without one, his capabilities are much more limited, and while working with limited resources is interesting, he already did that with TBFGK. This story is about what Parson can do when he's fully prepared.

Not to mention the fact that Maggie played Parson on the whole Great Minds thing. She was the reason he went into the MK. She cleared his approach, knowing full well that the GMTTA were on their way. True, she didn't know what they were going to do, but that's an unresolved point.

No way Maggie's going the way of Misty anytime soon.

The problem with that is two-fold. Firstly, Wanda is standing right there, with the Arkenpliers, she may well Decrypt a replacement Thinkamancer during this fight. Secondly, this whole mess is happening because they have a Thinkamancer. Maggie tipped off the Great Minds, causing the delay. Worse, it seems very likely indeed that Charlie can listen in on Thinkagrams, which led to the Jeftichew incidents.

One thing's for sure, she's at greater risk than the other Gobwin Knob Units, merely because they're stacked together while she'll be standing alone.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby drachefly » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:09 am

Yeah, if Erfworld was the Babylon 5 CCG, Maggie would have just gotten a doom mark put on her card. She may be inner circle, but that's a removable trait.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby Lamech » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:32 pm

Maggie won't croak. Don't be ridiculous. That would be pointless. She croaks and Wanda patches her up. Whoop de do. That was an anti-climax. She will go permanently insane when the backlash from the suggestion spell breaking hits her of course. But croaking? That makes 0 sense.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby 0beron » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:35 pm

Lamech wrote:She will go permanently insane when the backlash from the suggestion spell breaking hits her of course.

The suggestion already has "broken". It was meant as a short-term, and it served its purpose. The spell "expired" without breaking, because it was intended to be instantaneous.
The suggestion Wanda used on Jillian was much more complex and long-lasting. It was constantly tested and strained. It might not have even been a suggestion at all, instead a more complex thinkamancy effect. What Maggie did to Stanley is different.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby Whispri » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:35 pm

Lamech wrote:Maggie won't croak. Don't be ridiculous. That would be pointless. She croaks and Wanda patches her up. Whoop de do. That was an anti-climax. She will go permanently insane when the backlash from the suggestion spell breaking hits her of course. But croaking? That makes 0 sense.

Not if corpse Maggie appears in the Magick Kingdom just as Wanda and company are piling through the Portal... or shortly afterwards. Pre-corpse Maggie will be directly behind them after all. And when the rest of Spacerock's Garrison is cleared out, well that's it, no more Portal. Short of Wanda creating her own Side, that'd be it for Maggie. And if Wanda does it may not help, there's nothing they could do to stop the corpse being dragged off and hidden/destroyed. Even falling back through Gobwin Knob's Portal dead or incapcitated may not help in some possible scenarios given the distance.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby Nnelg » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:14 pm

Whispri wrote:
Lamech wrote:Maggie won't croak. Don't be ridiculous. That would be pointless. She croaks and Wanda patches her up. Whoop de do. That was an anti-climax. She will go permanently insane when the backlash from the suggestion spell breaking hits her of course. But croaking? That makes 0 sense.

Not if corpse Maggie appears in the Magick Kingdom just as Wanda and company are piling through the Portal... or shortly afterwards. Pre-corpse Maggie will be directly behind them after all. And when the rest of Spacerock's Garrison is cleared out, well that's it, no more Portal. Short of Wanda creating her own Side, that'd be it for Maggie. And if Wanda does it may not help, there's nothing they could do to stop the corpse being dragged off and hidden/destroyed. Even falling back through Gobwin Knob's Portal dead or incapcitated may not help in some possible scenarios given the distance.

Not to mention that we don't know how casters respond to decryption. She might lose all her powers, or she might not be decryptable at all. Either of those dramatic enough for you?

EDIT/PS:
The point isn't that she's likely to die at the moment because it would fulfill any particular plot point, even though there are many ways her death can help to drive the story; rather it is that her continued survival isn't necessary for the story either, and the fact that she's been somewhat relegated to the sidelines of late means she's at risk.

She's at that perfect balance where her death could have a serious emotional impact on the audience without messing up any current plotlines. So, if Rob intends to kill her off at all, now would be a good time to do it.
Last edited by Nnelg on Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby 0beron » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:18 pm

Nnelg wrote:...or she might not be decryptable at all.

I doubt this would be the case. It's specifically noted that the 'Pliers allowed Wanda to raise units that uncroaking would normally not be capable of, and we know that casters were even uncroakable, just they failed to retain their powers. To me, the fact that Archons retain their abilities when Decrypted *suggests* that casters will be equally unchanged, but it's still possible they lose it.
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Re: Prediction about Cubbins (speculation!)

Postby Nnelg » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:34 pm

0beron wrote:
Nnelg wrote:...or she might not be decryptable at all.

I doubt this would be the case. It's specifically noted that the 'Pliers allowed Wanda to raise units that uncroaking would normally not be capable of, and we know that casters were even uncroakable, just they failed to retain their powers. To me, the fact that Archons retain their abilities when Decrypted *suggests* that casters will be equally unchanged, but it's still possible they lose it.

From a common sense point of view, you're probably right. It sure would be dramatic though.
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