Just a thought, but if Haffaton have a Luckmancer, then allowing the slaughter of disposables would work in their favour, using up the bad luck.
Another thought, filling the Tower and Dungeon with horribly leathal traps then sprinkling, cheap, weak Units throughout to ensure an attacker would have
to brave those traps to take the City would be a pretty nasty defence.
Whispri wrote:That Haffaton banner... the similarities betwen it and the livery future era Wanda uses... Well it's short of her actively still fighting in Haffaton colours, but it's pretty boopin' close. In fact, if it wasn't for future era Wanda having to use Stanley's banner, I'm not sure there'd be a difference.
It could go the other way as well... I doubt it looked like that before Wanda was on the side. It could be that HER livery is affecting her side.
Well yes, the Uncroaked is almost certainly in the Banner in honour of Wanda. But do you think she selected the Banner? And where's the tribute to Goodminton? Did Wanda ever voice any objection to fighting under the banner of Saint Shuttlecock? Or even Saint Skull?
vintermann wrote:Seems unlikely. One possibility is that Wanda is in the tower, has already turned, and the poor zombies about to be dusted by Bart are actually allied. Friendly fire seems to be quite possible in Erfworld
I don't believe that is possible, becauase of this
and all the comments on seeing Frenemy Units as 'Allied', then as 'Enemy' as alliance is broken. And if Haffaton and Wanda had already fallen out with no thought given to outsiders, why wait for Faq to show?
Kreistor wrote:Plants may not be units, but may be a type of Trap. Traps have been mentioned before, in reference to the Dirtamancy trap that was the volcano eruption.
And, no, the figure in the window does not have to be Wanda for uncroaked to be present, and given the weakness and lack of stacking/leadership, I'd say she is most certainly nowhere near this place. We've seen uncroaked in hexes where she was not present before.
call them Units though.
Well no it doesn't, but present or not, there are
a couple of possible benefits to putting up disorganised resistance in this stage of the Battle. Firstly, the enemy C.O. was showing (uncharacteristic) caution, the easy victory in the courtyard has dispelled that caution, in effect, baiting the hook. Secondly, (and this one is a bit more shakey) given that Haffaton would know they'd lost a City to a Side called Faq if Jillian sacked one of their Cities, might the same be true of the result of an engagement?
Nnelg wrote:But what about "because they're the giant in the playground"? (no pun intended, Rich's alias is just the perfect metaphor)
They're a threat to all their neighbors, so is "dealing with a common threat" a good enough reason?
They are no threat at all in the scenario I have raised, for the scenario I have raised is one in which Jilllian's (horribly misplaced) belief in Haffaton's weakness is entirely accurate. So... non-evil reason?
MonteCristo wrote:We have seen bits of evidence to show that what Jillian thinks is the case. We have seen that haffaton's people find uncroaked distasteful but find them necessary for their side; this is likely because of their low upkeep... We even actually have evidence that this isn't just a recent capture when you consider that the uncroaked present are heavily decayed which implies that they have been there for a while.
There is likely a reason why Haffaton's size is considered absurb; namely that sides probably never get that big because they find it too difficult to maintain that size. Which is why they would use the mechanic to spin off a new side when a side gets too big
Its a side that she has been told WILL exterminate them if Faq doesn't do anything..
Jillian's obsession? Seems your hate for jillian has led you to forget that Banhammer is the king and has final say in all matters. This is Not a Jillian issue but an issue for all of Faq. The king is the one who ordered that Jillian stop her mercenary work so that she could concentrate on finding a new capitol. Jillian has no choice in the matter... Those units are facing disbandment because King Banhammer ordered an end to all mercenary work to pursue a very futile evacuation plan. Jillian would rather pursue more realistic plans like ending Haffaton's threat to her side once and for all; hell her alternate evacuation plan would have even been a better idea than what Banhammer has her doing
And we have seen how haffaton operates... Goodmitten had grown small and weak, but still they were a target for haffaton. Goodmitten also did not outright reject haffaton's offer for wanda, but instead of pursuing peace plans, they decided to croak the chief warlord with a sneak attack taking advantage of his love; that's right they use "love" to kill people.
A lot of people in Erfworld have an irrational hate for Croakamancy, this was made very
clear during Wanda's trip to the Magick kingdom earlier in Book Zero. Yes Wanda is clearly very important to Haffaton. She's responsible for most of their conquests according to the rumours and her Uncroaked are their face, that speaks for itself. As for the status of the decayed Units, their lack freshness is no indication of the length of time they've been in the City, they can after all, move.
Yes, there are known to be difficulties. And yes, many Sides deal with these difficulties (and heirs eager for the top job) by forming a Tribe. Fact is though, Jillian has never had to face the problem and has no idea what loopholes and exploits may be found relating to that problem. There may even come a point where haing 'x' number of Cities grants a bonus of some kind, who'd know 'til they reached the magic number? Nevermind the thought of the servants Goodminton and Jetstone seem to have and muscle powered agriculture in secured regions.
Irrelevant. If they are as weak as Jillian supposes, they are no threat. No non-evil reason to attack them has been provided
... For a start, Jillian's lunatic plan to wage war on Haffaton had more ifs in it than she has limbs. Beyond that: Some pertinent excerpts from the Book Zero update
prior to this one. "Only she wasn’t looking too hard. What would be the point? This area was closer to Haffaton territory than Faq was. It might even be Haffaton territory." "She just needed to know how far around it was. It was getting ludicrous. “We have to know where Haffaton is, so we can go looking for a site where it isn’t.” That was her flimsy explanation, and none of her warlords challenged it. But really, at this point Jillian viewed circumnavigating Haffaton as her personal quest." So yeah. Jillian is not searching for a Capital Site, she is wasting time, money and ultimately lives in a vanity quest.
Goodminton and Haffaton had been at war before Goodminton became weak, given that Haffaton helped destroy the rest of the Croatan Tribe, they were likely enemies even then. As for Tommy, he had made it very clear that no deal could happen while he lived, Wanda offered to accept it after all. In fact, Tommy was still planning to take the City, he may even have succeeded if he'd had another Turn to try it.
0beron wrote:Impossible, if it were Wanda, Jillian would see stats, regardless of what side Wanda is defined as.
Why so? Leaving aside that a statless Unit doesn't have to mean offworlder, if Foolamancy can turn a Unit invisible, why should it not be able to hide Wanda's stats?
Saladman wrote:The decayed unit alone sounds like what Wanda might choose for her personal livery, which casters commonly get to put on units they create. So I'm not too surprised she kept a variant of it. The Haffaton - Peace motto, and probably the pink flowers too, sound like Olive's influence on Haffaton's flag. But this raises a question that took a while to grow on me. What did it take for a side that once abhorred Croakamancy and valued peace to incorporate the livery of a captured Croakamancer into their official side's banner? What does it say that their Chief Caster is otherwise influencing their flag, rather than it being a legacy of their ruler's personality or livery? I'm thinking Chief Hippiemancer Olive is the real power in Haffaton, from determining strategy and force composition to openly "suggesting" the banner used. Which is... interesting. I mean, we never saw their ruler on-screen, and we did know Olive was powerful and popular, but I didn't realize how much. Or do they trust Wanda as much as they value her?
it have been her choice of livery pre-Haffaton? As I mentioned somewhere above, she could have included a tribute to her fallen family but she didn't. Before this update I could have chalked her livery up to the default reason of liking skulls and flowers, but after this?
As for why they put boney on it, while it's true Olive seemed to like her, it shouldn't be forgotten that the stories Jillian's heard of her attribute most of Haffaton's conquests to Wanda. That sort of thing gets acknowledged. Unless you're Stanley.