Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby BCCroaker » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:06 am

Infidel wrote:
hajo wrote:
Whispri wrote:The mannequin with the eyes, just as it appears, or some sort of unfinished Unit?

I wonder it can function as a spy+scout-unit, much like the bats from Transylvito ?

That would enable Huffaton to see who captured their city, and perhaps gain other intel...


I like how you think.


Yes, or a recording unit. Just Haffaton putting a face to Faq could mess up the plan to raze this city anonymously. Somebody with a brain on the Haffaton side (Wanda say) might be able to put apparently unrelated info together. And there doesn't have to be a Dollamancer, could have been Wanda the multitalent trying out another skill.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby 0beron » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:09 am

Oh god, bad mental image, cannot be unseen...really Jillian? It's a SWORD...even if the blade is pointed away from you...these things are not supposed to mix!
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby 0beron » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:13 am

Also; important bit of info that I suppose we could have guessed but is good to see confirmed:
Cities continue to pop supplies even when there are no units in the city that require upkeep. This could be a factor in the Side-size limitation, as popping these supplies might be a drain on your treasury.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby Nnelg » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:14 am

Selexor wrote:Well just because it's a trap doesn't mean it's a trap that's going to work, now does it?

Enemy storms in, kills the plants, gets high on love drugs and lets their guard down. Meanwhile, the Haffaton forces composed of Wanda's uncroaked Fellows - which given that she has a half-finished outfit right there, is a pretty sure sign she was at the castle one turn ago or less - storm in and take them by surprise, reclaiming the castle and taking prisoners to be turned or interrogated. That strikes me as what the trap probably involves. But they probably wouldn't have expected to catch a full force led by Faq's Chief Warlord with a heavy complement of fliers, so the trap could very easily fail - at which point Jillian, still high on pheremones, has a high-level caster in her grasp who can be easily captured, shares her disdain for traditional loyalty, and who has extraordinarily low Loyalty to her side.

Bam. Wanda turns, Haffaton's unit becomes the future downfall of Faq. Prediction fufilled, Haffaton's forces are greatly weakened, fate unfolds.

I like this theory. I doubt it'll unfold exactly like this, but it explains how Banhammer and Marie would get a unit destined to destroy Faq in their employ. Jillian can't (or won't) put two and two together, and brings back this captured caster who's very eager to be part of a side that opposes Haffaton. The Ruler and Predictamancer eye each other nervously, then decide that the safest place to put her is under their watchful eye. (After all, she can't destroy Faq while she's a part of it, and Jillian will probably be out freelancing when she does turn.)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby cheeseaholic » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:14 am

hajo wrote:That would enable Huffaton to see who captured their city, and perhaps gain other intel...


I suppose that explains why it's in the penthouse bedroom.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby Nnelg » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:14 am

0beron wrote:Also; important bit of info that I suppose we could have guessed but is good to see confirmed:
Cities continue to pop supplies even when there are no units in the city that require upkeep. This could be a factor in the Side-size limitation, as popping these supplies might be a drain on your treasury.

Unless the storerooms are normally full, and just pop replacements as needed.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby effataigus » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:27 am

Urf wrote:Bart has sclera.


I think Xin has been distinguishing between skin and sclera mainly using coloration. Based upon eye shape, it looks like all of Goodminton had eye whites, much of Faq, but none of Haffaton (at a quick survey). I don't think we'll know for certain without color though.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby 0beron » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:34 am

...now that I look back at the image to check on the eye thing, I realize another parallel. Not only is this like Wanda finding Olive's raiment, but it's a visual allusion to the scene of Wanda examining her new custom Raiment in the mirror, with Delphi behind her. In fact, the perspective is a little different but I think that Jillian is about where Delphi was relative to the mirror. She's even by the foot of the bed, and Delphi was sitting on the foot of the bed.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby OneHugeTuck » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:17 pm

It doesn't really make sense to me that a trap spell could last through a city falling and coming under the control of another side. That seems SUPER powerful.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby Salem » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:21 pm

I think the implication is that the trap has already sprung, and the effects are just lasting past the battle.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby Nnelg » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:45 pm

OneHugeTuck wrote:It doesn't really make sense to me that a trap spell could last through a city falling and coming under the control of another side. That seems SUPER powerful.

I would think that booby-traps would be underpowered if they got dispelled the second an enemy captured the city. Especially the (potential) one in the mannequin, seeing as its only (proposed) function is to act as a spy.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby Silverhorn » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:07 pm

Has anyone considered that the mannequin is actually Wanda under a Foolamancy?

Here are the reasons I think it is possible:
1) Wanda is actually able to cast many things outside her discipline (proof: Self declaration in Book 1, Use of Rymancy and Hat Magic in Book 0 without a teacher, etc.). While not expert she is kind a savant at our disciplines. She could have also had a scroll.
2) The illusion of the mannequin would have been a VERY easy foolmancy to cast. And be able to look in a mirror to watch for mistakes would probably make it easier.
3) The mannequin has eyes, that is kind of odd. Especially elaborately realistic eyes.
4) Wanda likes to take reasurance from her Signamancy, so looking in the mirror could give Wanda the courage to go through with her elaborate ruse.

My theory really hinges on can a Commander unit willingly surrender a city (thus avoiding auto capture when the garrision is taken )? If so Wanda seeing her home being overwhelmed chose to go with the plan of making the other side think they had taken in the city without encountering her. If the plan succeeds, Wanda is not captured or croaked. In the morning when her side's turn comes, she uses a little more foolmancy to sneak out of the city and hide in the countryside until help comes. (A bit like what the Archons are trying to do in Jetstone in Book 2 right now.) And on the plus side, it gives Wanda a chance to watch the invaders and see if she wants to defect.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby 0beron » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:13 pm

That kind of ruse strikes me as something only Parson would come up with, because I think that it would have to involve properly turning, not just surrendering. Now it's true that Wanda has such low Loyalty most likely that she could pull this off...but I'm still not sure it's something she'd do alone.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby Urf » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:16 pm

Looking again at the Haffaton emblem, a skull crowned by flowers.
Image

In a city called Diecast. You can parse that compound word at least five ways to fit the scenario.

The Dollamancer could be Wanda herself, since she's fluent in other magics and has that Fashion special.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby Kyrt » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:46 pm

Silverhorn wrote:Has anyone considered that the mannequin is actually Wanda under a Foolamancy?


Actually - yes. Especially with the notation about the lifelike eyes.

The biggest argument against is that if a Haffaton caster/unit remained in the city, then it wouldn't have fallen.

There are potential ways around this - Wanda retains her Goodminton status, for example or possibly not being a unit tasked with defence of the city or perhaps, just as casters can survive in the MK, there are special rules regarding this.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby gameboy1234 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:35 pm

OneHugeTuck wrote:It doesn't really make sense to me that a trap spell could last through a city falling and coming under the control of another side. That seems SUPER powerful.


A full on trap, yeah that would be kind of over powered. However, leaving behind a doll or device you control and can spy on an enemy, that seems pretty normal to me. Lots of spies in Erfworld, what's one more stationary one?

Silverhorn wrote:Has anyone considered that the mannequin is actually Wanda under a Foolamancy?


Yeah. But it violates the "no units left in garrison or tower" rule. So unless there's a special unit that doesn't count towards holding a city, or that Foolmancy can counter the effect of a unit still being in garrison, I'd say no, it can't be a "unit" that's left there. Might be something that not a unit though.

Urf wrote:Looking again at the Haffaton emblem, a skull crowned by flowers.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby Selexor » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:06 pm

If Wanda's still in the city, it could simply be that the Love Trap (baby, Love Trap) is a standard defence that Olive has left behind on all Haffaton cities. She's frantically hiding in her room under a Foolamancy veil in the hopes that the Faq forces don't realise she's there. Remembering that Casters have the Leadership special, she can survive in hostile or neutral territory without a stack; she may right now count as being a Captured unit, it's just that Faq doesn't know it yet until they actually find her. It's a stretch, but it's even possible that this is the plan - Wanda stays captured or hidden until Haffaton counter-attacks, and then there's a surprise Master Croakamancer in the hex. I suppose that depends on if a Captured unit can "escape", something we don't know yet. I doubt that Haffaton would gamble on Wanda turning to Faq and then turning back again, though. That's too high a risk if her Loyalty is low enough to allow it; they wouldn't build a plan around that.

I think it's more likely that if the mannequin is anything, it's a spy unit watching Faq's forces, and the veil is only holding because everyone's too distracted by the Love Trap (baby, Love Trap) to look at it any closer. But I mostly think that the mannequin really is just a lifeless model with a half-finished garment on it, and Wanda will make her appearance on Haffaton's turn, while Faq is still worn out and their injuries from taking out the plants and the Fellows haven't healed yet.
But of course that's just my opinion.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby AbsolutlyFinal » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:08 am

I don't get it... Why is it called Three-Edged?

:<

[Seriously.]
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby Zeku » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:58 am

Truth is compared to a 2-edged sword in the Bible, it specifically comes out of the mouth of Jesus. I'm sure it has some poetic meaning, like being able to cut the person who wields it, or cutting both coming and going.

"Three-edged sword" is either too complicated for me to parse, or it's a reference to Jillian's nightly personal habits, (http://www.thezorklibrary.com/history/cruel_puppet.html) specifically the extra utility she gets out of the hilt.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 037

Postby AbsolutlyFinal » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:23 am

Well.

Image

This explained a lot...
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