Book 2 – Page 84

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby atalex » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:07 am

As much as I love Trem, I did NOT need to see an upskirt shot. I think I've been hit by shockamancy!
atalex
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:08 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Swodaems » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:18 am

ScegfOd wrote:
The Bushranger wrote:I love the medical incantation. :D


i know Becker and House are from the shows of the same name...Quinn was from Johnny quest right?
anyone know the others? :3

They are all fictional doctors with their own series.
Kildare is an old film, radio, and doctor.
Welby is another reference older than I am.
Neil Patrick Harris was Doogie howser.
Quinn is likely Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman.
I never watched Becker, so I don't know his personality, but I'm sure that Gregory House would have called Parson a moron with delusions of grandeur after his recent actions. Actually, the exact words he would use would be something far more bitingly true and depressing. They would also be said directly to Parson's face.

ninjaed
Zeku wrote:One thing that I haven't figured out, is there anything left at Spacerock? Are the archons the last of the GK army, or is there still fighting going on somewhere? Wouldn't Wanda be aware of the captured or destroyed archons?
We haven't seen the decrypted in the dungeon dust, nor have we seen Sylvia and the dwagons in the courtyard bite it.

Zeku wrote:The problem with Parson is that we've been assuming that he really is the 'perfect warlord,' even though we saw him throw away his sword of ruthlessness, and make a reckless and (in retrospect) terrible decision to join the battle at Spacerock. Perhaps now that he is listening to his conscience, he is far more flawed that we realize, at least at doing his job.
The way I see it, Parson was a deadbeat on Earth for a good reason. Regardless of his abilities, he got where he was due to a lack of proper motivation and resourcefulness. (This is the pot calling the kettle black. I graduated college over a year ago and have yet to really try to find a job. I know a deadbeat when I see one.)
Swodaems
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:52 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Ytaker » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:40 am

Selexor wrote:
Ytaker wrote:He is right that it is a bad idea to make an enemy of the magic kingdom, and Parson is making numerous extremely bad choices for little reason.

He really does not feel like the perfect general right now. Maybe the thinkamancers should just cut their losses and let him go.

His priority now is to take Spacerock and cripple Gobwin Knob's greatest enemy by destroying the RCC2.


Or by having his siege kill the king.

The best way for him to achieve that is to join the battle against Jetstone.


Assuming that is true, he shouldn't have dilly dallied in middle of the tunnel for a while to chat up a carnymancer, reconnect with his dirtamancer. Apparantly he thinks his main goal should be to chat to the locals, as that is the main thing he is doing.

I don't see what a level 2 warlord with a couple of magical items can do that a level 2 warlord with a thinkamancer can't. His main asset is his mind.

And really, if at this point he just decides to say "screw it" and walk back to his own portal, do you think all the MK factions present would let him now? Jojo has been hired by Charlie to eliminate Parson and he's riling up the entire Kingdom, and there's also tGMtTA want Parson to stay. Two powerful factions saying "Don't let him go". Plus we've got the Predictamancers and the Hippiemancers who seem to have a vested interest in Parson winning the battle, who need him to go through to Spacerock.


Well, going with the thinkamancer would probably actually be more useful. He would gain a large and powerful group as allies against Charlie.

He's in a bad situation, and he's choosing the path where he stops his own troops from dying and deals with his personal drama afterwards. Sounds like exactly what a good leader should be doing to me.


He chose to not kill the capitol so he could be with his troops, he could have stopped his troops dying at any time.
Ytaker
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:23 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Selexor » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:31 am

So... I take it that Parson's failure is that he's ignoring the whole "moral action" and "character development" and "caring for his troops" thing that has been the whole point of his character ever since he was brought to Erfworld? His decision was that if he was sending people he cared about to fight in a war, he should be involved in it. So far his advice has turned GK's units from certain defeat into likely victory, before saying that he was coming to personally oversee the battle, which bestows his bonus as Chief Warlord in the hex where it's needed and allows him to communicate without using whatever's left of Maggie's severely depleted Juice. That sounds like a very sound tactical decision to me.

Another Chief Warlord would have made sense, but Parson not only didn't want to be Chief, he specifically said that someone already at the battle should be.
Destroying the tower was a smart move, but not while he was in the Magic Kingdom, and he didn't order the tower to be destroyed at the wrong point in the battle.
Not stopping to talk to Jojo would have been smart, but Jojo was actually offering to help him at a time when he needs allies and he had no idea time was such a crucial factor. Stopping for 60 seconds to talk wasn't that stupid. And even if he did, Marie and Janis and Sizemore would have stopped him to chat anyway.

He's acting with limited information, knowing that soon he can't communicate with his troops, terrified that they're all going to die after he took a big personal vow to not let that happen again, and pausing to at least consider a potential offer for help before being ambushed by tGMtTA. He had the choice to stay in Gobwin Knob and lose communication once Maggie's juice ran out while his troops died, or get to Spacerock the only way he could to direct the battle personally. He chose the only possible option that makes him other than useless, and then was ambushed in a way he couldn't possibly have predicted with the lack of information he'd been given.

I mean, what should he have done - remembering what Parson knew at the time, and the options available to him - that would have been better? Order the tower destroyed when that's clearly failed to beat Slately, and stood there going "Oops" while Maggie's juice ran dry and his Units were left stranded? He's reacted as best he can to a shift in circumstances entirely beyond his control, and is trying to be proactive despite massive obstacles. I'd say he's doing as well as anyone could and better than most.
But of course that's just my opinion.
User avatar
Selexor
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:41 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby GJC » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:20 am

I agree that parson's insistence on being there is unnecessary. His bonus is nice, and being on-site will help him respond quicker, but far more important than his presence is Wanda's presence in the hex. He's just peanuts, he doesn't need to be in Spacerock. And his insistence on being there, to me, seems like a moral issue and one alone.

But that's obvious. Ruthlessness was one of the qualities Parson needed to become a perfect warlord, and one he rejected at the end of book one. He'll make mistakes relating to that. It's only natural.
User avatar
GJC
 
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:25 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby teratorn » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:38 am

This strip convinced me that the real Slately is gone. There's the question if Jetstone should try to retrieve the body or let it there for Wanda to decrypt.

Dwagons are strong (as long as there are warlords to stack with them) and Sylvia's got a few of them. Now that Ossomer's gone Jetstone doesn't have anyone with enough leadership to head the charge, so at this point the best course of action for Jetstone, now that they have enough money to promote Tram to heir, is to abandon Spacerock.
User avatar
teratorn
 
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 6:33 am
Location: Algarve

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Selexor » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:41 am

Well yeah, but he didn't tell Wanda to come meet him in the Magic Kingdom, and he certainly couldn't have anticipated being ambushed in the Magic Kingdom since Maggie didn't bother to tell him about tGMtTA, Sizemore didn't warn him about Janis and Marie, and nobody could have predicted Jojo. If the plan to simply run through to the MK had worked out, he and Wanda would both be in Spacerock right now. The fact that they're not is due to things occuring that Parson definitely didn't intend to happen and couldn't have possibly anticipated. And when you consider Maggie's low juice and the low (but still present) Chief Warlord bonus, Parson leading the battle in Spacerock makes more sense than Parson sitting around in Gobwin Knob.

He made a perfectly reasonable decision that's going pear-shaped because nobody told him things that they should have told him, exactly what he ranted at in Book One before the final stand in Gobwin Knob. You don't withold information from the guy planning the battles. His Casters have been doing that all over the place, and now look where they are. It's a screwup, but it's not on Parson.
But of course that's just my opinion.
User avatar
Selexor
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:41 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby BrotherRool » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:59 am

So if Parson doesn't cross over to Spacerock, Slately dies at the end of the turn and Tramenis becomes the new leader, we have both sides greatly weakened led by intelligent men willing (and in the case of Tramenis, wanting) to negotiate and Parson with the new knowledge to what depths Charlie is the real enemy. I think a ceasefire or even coalition is possible (although it might take some time) and favourable to both. Even Wanda wants the Arkendish (although that might me she would be against a war with Charlie?).

Charlie's going to have to do some tapdancing to spread enough confusion and misinformation to keep people fighting and protect himself

kefkakrazy wrote:That as good as confirms that Thinkagrams are unsecure contact to some degree, which seems to lend credence to the "Arkendish=allows thinkagram interception" idea. A direct contact like this, though, seems to be untappable, or at least the guy seems to think it is....

I disagree, if Isaac thought what they were doing right then is secure he would have said 'we can't do that because Charlie taps all thinkagrams'. Only a private face to face meeting is secure which is why even now he's not telling him everything.

GJC wrote:I agree that parson's insistence on being there is unnecessary. His bonus is nice, and being on-site will help him respond quicker, but far more important than his presence is Wanda's presence in the hex. He's just peanuts, he doesn't need to be in Spacerock. And his insistence on being there, to me, seems like a moral issue and one alone.

But that's obvious. Ruthlessness was one of the qualities Parson needed to become a perfect warlord, and one he rejected at the end of book one. He'll make mistakes relating to that. It's only natural.

I'm in general in agreement that Parson's move was unwise, with Jack and Wanda in Spacerock it probably wouldn't have fallen and his move to get there caused it to fall, it's a decision made because he's a human being. Saying that maybe if the larger problem in Erf is not to win the battle but to break the game, then a general with capacity for morality might be the perfect general, as opposed to a tactical machine who will never be properly motivated to find a peace solution.

Anyone to add two small arguments in that this wasn't a complete blunder, Maggie's juice was running low and it's probable he wouldn't have been able to direct the battle long enough to overcome Slately's change of state and as the archon's said, one of the things about Charlie is he was always there to give tactical advice, something they'd benefit from Parson two. Secondly, most of this Magic Kingdom kerfuffle was unpredictable and with his knowledge it was reasonable to expect he could get through to Spacerock, he probably still can except the new information is going to make him decide against it (hopefully) and whilst he knew he'd upset the Magic Kingdom he probably hoped with Jetstone out of the way he'd have the time and resources to deal with that problem.
BrotherRool
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:46 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Infidel » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:51 am

Well, like Parson said. Being a perfect warlord doesn't mean not making mistakes.
Who is that beautiful red-headed devil,
Stabs you in the heart so that she can level?
It's Scarlet!
- BC
User avatar
Infidel
I am a Tool!
I am a Tool!
 
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:22 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby arin » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:54 am

Parson's decision to enter the battlespace himself was emotional, rather than tactical. Which is an important distinction because, although he wants to be there to share in the danger for his troops and be the kind of leader /Earth/ would respect and admire, the fact remains that, tactically speaking, he's not necessary to the fight there. Spacerock's Garrison is almost completely captured anyway (tower down, dungeon and courtyard both more than 50% controlled by enemy troops), so it's incredibly likely that Prince Tremennis is going to order the evacuation anyway - ESPECIALLY since he has no idea that Wanda and Jack are not still in Spacerock, decrypting and veiling all the fallen tower units. They could all literally be in shackles at any moment if they stay. Slately has accomplished his tactical goal here - fundraze enough Archons to promote Trem. Whether or not he's going to depop at the end of the turn, he no longer has any reason to stay - especially with his new attitude, focused more on efficiency than pride.

Honestly, that portal's gonna close any second. Isaac's probably being vague as much to stall and make the point moot as for any other reason.

But mostly, with Maggie now on the scene, Parson can get a reliable tactical update on the situation in Spacerock, realize that he's not needed, send Wanda and Jack back through the portal before it closes, and then proceed with Isaac on the condition that they not hold him for more than a turn. If it weren't for Marie, I'd be betting that it goes that way - but Predictamancy being what it is, Parson may just be Fated to go through that portal anyway.
======

On a side note, as long as we're talking about emotional vs tactical decisions, I wonder to what extent cabin fever is playing a part in Parson's mind. 83 turns trapped in Gobwin Knob, knowing there's an outside world but being unable to see any of it... maybe he just REALLY wants a change of scenery? :)
arin
YOTD Supporter!
YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Aquillion » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:58 am

Remember, the really disastrous part of all this was caused by Wanda and Jack's incredibly terrible decision to go to the Magic Kingdom to meet Parson, which he specifically did not order and didn't approve of when he learned of it. (Also, Jack's decision to order the tower knocked down, which was what initially gave them a time constrant and forced lots of other undesirable things to happen.) There wouldn't be so much at stake in Parson's movement here if they hadn't done that and deprived the troops in the city of leadership.

Parson also didn't have any way of knowing that Jeftichew would be there to rouse casters against him, or that the Thinkamancers would be there to delay him, etc. As far as he knew, rushing in like this was an easy way to reinforce his troops' leadership and get more personal combat experience (important for his side's long-term well-being) at relatively low risk.

(This assumes he doesn't have some other plan up his sleeve, too. He may be planning something else that requires that he be there.)
Aquillion
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 4:45 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Kalak » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:04 am

Third to last panel, Pierce looks out of breath and sweaty. Casting takes a physical toll on the body. Have we seen that before?
User avatar
Kalak
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:07 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Kaed » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:06 am

I believe this "thinkspace" is a form of thinkamancy communication above the thinkagram. Charlie uses it himself every time he conducts a business talk, and it is definitely different from a two way thinkagram - those involve talking head images, not a private mental space where one can talk.

And others can join.

On a only slightly unrelated note, after reading the comic early this morning I went to bed and dreamed about reading it again... only this time there was more content after where it ended today.

Isaac was pulling the predictamancers and a few others into thinkspace to talk to them about tactical plans - while still talking to Parson, hinting at being able to conduct multiple conversations - and the last one he pulled in was a caster who looked like an immensely fat black woman wearing only fishnets. She had multiple angle shots as she descended into thinkspace,
like she was really important.

...

I hope that wasn't predictamancy ;c
UNLESS someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not.
Kaed
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 4:28 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:12 am

Kaed wrote:I believe this "thinkspace" is a form of thinkamancy communication above the thinkagram. Charlie uses it himself every time he conducts a business talk, and it is definitely different from a two way thinkagram - those involve talking head images, not a private mental space where one can talk.

And others can join.

On a only slightly unrelated note, after reading the comic early this morning I went to bed and dreamed about reading it again... only this time there was more content after where it ended today.

Isaac was pulling the predictamancers and a few others into thinkspace to talk to them about tactical plans - while still talking to Parson, hinting at being able to conduct multiple conversations - and the last one he pulled in was a caster who looked like an immensely fat black woman wearing only fishnets. She had multiple angle shots as she descended into thinkspace,
like she was really important.

...

I hope that wasn't predictamancy ;c



Did the fat lady sing ? :lol:
Werebiscuit
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:45 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Selexor » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:12 am

arin wrote:But mostly, with Maggie now on the scene, Parson can get a reliable tactical update on the situation in Spacerock, realize that he's not needed, send Wanda and Jack back through the portal before it closes, and then proceed with Isaac on the condition that they not hold him for more than a turn.

One exception: Jack's at least slightly injured from his fall and is officially out of Juice. Given that Casters have no leadership bonus, if Parson doesn't go through to Spacerock, I don't think he'll send Jack back. I think everyone's favourite knave will either be ordered to return to Gobwin Knob with Sizemore, Maggie and (probably) Wanda, or else he'll follow Parson wherever he goes next, be it Spacerock or the Temple of the Great Minds.
Overall, though, my schmuckers are on Isaac heading through the portal with Parson. I do agree that the choice to go to Spacerock was emotional rather than tactical; however I also think that it makes tactical sense anyway. Parson is of more use there than he is at Gobwin Knob, simple fact. So either Isaac can win Parson's trust in the next few sentences, or he's going through now. And the only way I can think of to do that is to give a promise that a contingent of Casters will enter through the portal and assist Gobwin Knob in winning the battle, which Isaac could order, but I doubt will happen. Groundhog Phil predicted that Parson was going through that portal, and I believe him.

Edit:
I think Pierce looks sweaty and out of breath just because that's how Hawkeye from M*A*S*H always looked after surgery. He either danced out of the room to get a drink, or stood there looking weary while someone patted him on the back. My guess is that's what we're seeing here.
But of course that's just my opinion.
User avatar
Selexor
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:41 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Kaed » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:21 am

Werebiscuit wrote:Did the fat lady sing? :D


No, but she were a shockamancer, no doubt.
UNLESS someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not.
Kaed
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 4:28 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Silverhorn » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:54 am

Side Objective

Has anyone considered that the trip through MK for Parson is not just about getting to Jetstone? It is also about forcing a reaction out the MK. Making them finally reach out to Parson and start communicating.

Consider what is going through Parson's head.
1) He knows that he was summoned via a very powerful and unique spell crafted in the MK.
2) He has a special that allows him to enter the MK. The only warlord known to be able to do so.
3) The MK is THE CENTER of learning for all of Erfworld.
4) Parson is not welcome in the MK and none of the casters there are reaching out to him. They are leaving him in the dark.
5) The MK has already initiated a partial embargo on Gobwin Knob, shuting off access to useful scrolls such as Healomancy.
For Parson there are SOOOO many unanswered questions regarding the MK.

So what Parson may be doing is a reverse Mohammad (If Mohammad can't go to the Mountain, he will make the Mountain come to him.) :-)

If Parson's side goal is to force a reaction out of the MK his decision to go through the portals makes a lot more sense. There is probably still a lot of emotion behind the decision, but it is a much more clever act. The more I mull it over, the more I see that forcing a reaction out of the MK is in his best interest. About the only two truly negative outcomes are he gets killed (and for Parson he may consider that a non issue since it may just send him back home) or the MK declares and outright war on Gobwin Knob sell there services cheap to its enemies (the later being a remote risk).

I want to emphasize that causing a reaction is a side objective, and I still believe that Parson's choice is partially emotional.
Silverhorn
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby HalfTangible » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:02 am

Zeku wrote:One thing that I haven't figured out, is there anything left at Spacerock? Are the archons the last of the GK army, or is there still fighting going on somewhere? Wouldn't Wanda be aware of the captured or destroyed archons?

The problem with Parson is that we've been assuming that he really is the 'perfect warlord,' even though we saw him throw away his sword of ruthlessness, and make a reckless and (in retrospect) terrible decision to join the battle at Spacerock. Perhaps now that he is listening to his conscience, he is far more flawed that we realize, at least at doing his job.

As before, there's a couple of things I can't say, because if I'm correct it's story-wide spoilers. But I'm noticing that the business model of the MK and the business model of Charlie are quite similar... remember that Janis wants to "break war" (which could easily turn out worse than hoped for: worldwide erfascism) but the thinkamancers are harder to suss out. On the surface, they seem to be the enemy of Charlie, who is, at minimum, mercenary. As the communication service of the world, the thinkamancers may really be interesting in remaining the 'princes of the air.' I mean, what it really boils down to, is that anybody (or everybody) could be lying through their teeth at this point.

Keep in mind that 'erfacism' is pretty much the only peace you're going to be able to get in a world where everyone is physically and mentally compelled to obey their superior officers.
HalfTangible
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 11:53 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby Urf » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:05 am

We predicted the falling out of airspace tactic with foreshadowing.

What if Parson only pokes his head through the portal?
Urf
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:35 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 84

Postby effataigus » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:10 am

Wow, that's gutsy... pulling someone into thinkspace when he's surrounded by angry carnymancers. Better hope some of those predictamancers are screening for him.

Lloyd really does look depressed... guessing next panel he'll tell the assembly that Slately is about to depop... wasn't convinced before, but seems likely now that he isn't even sharing in the minor victory of getting Tram back.

I'd like to think that Parson could pretty quickly convince Isaac to go with him into the portal, but Maggie joining the conversation suggests to me we're going to have another couple of full panels of people standing around talking. Poor, Xin :D

My biggest question is why Maggie insisted on keeping Parson in the dark. I'll have to go back and reread that bonus-content page in the printed book, but, IIRC, it didn't make any sense then either. Isaac's histrionics would be unnecessary if Maggie would just spill the beans... and you would think that Parson's speech at the end of Book 1 about not withholding intel would have set her straight.

's the problem with thinkamancers I guess... always think they know better.
Last edited by effataigus on Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.
User avatar
effataigus
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:49 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: El_Chupacabra, Thecommander236 and 9 guests