Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby Saladman » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:53 pm

Morni wrote:Fair warning, theirs more text bellow the image then on the image.


I've got to admit I did not catch that until I read this. (Though, since I came straight here I didn't miss out.) Its actually an interesting effect given the art-page is presumably only what Charlie would see if had cracked the 'books before the security update.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby Saladman » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:05 am

partywhipple wrote:Either way, it's not so scary to think that Charlie saw Parson's Klog, is it? Most of the Klogs have been Parson brainstorming about how to manipulate the rules. I have always assumed Charlie is from Parson's world and so also tries to think of ways to beat the system. If not, he's definitely thinking that way now.


But if Charlie's not from Stupidworld (which we really have no evidence at all for) then it is just that scary, for the reason given in your last sentence. Charlie would have, not only new ideas, but a whole new standard for ideas.

Too, there's the question of how much Charlie has not just benefited from but maintained Erfworld's general balance of power. If he has gotten new ideas, and if he were to defeat Parson/GK, then he'd be truly unbeatable for still another age of unending warfare on Erf.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby Beeskee » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:19 am

I always figured that Charlie doesn't necessarily have to be from Stupidworld, but he is exposed in some way to every idea in Erfworld thanks to his tool, so I would expect him to be a masterful strategist when it comes to things he has unexpected knowledge of. Whereas we have seen him make good old regular mistakes based on things he doesn't have that knowledge of, such as Parson's reaction to Charlie's 'job offer' in the beginning, and from the current update where Parson is wary of Charlie's attempt to impress him with the eyebook hack.

Excellent update, by the way. I'm not saying I wouldn't have minded seeing more of the plot, but this background is very useful. I was wondering about the eyebook security issue for a long time, I'm glad we got more insight into it.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby Archaic » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:24 am

As a hardened veteran of the original Pokémon shipping wars, I can only confirm Hamstard's statement about shipping leading to terrible things. Any particular reason Hamstard didn't give Ash/Misty shipping its proper name though? Our fandom did practically invent the whole idiosyncratic ship naming thing. ^^;;

Can't help but think also, with the tub of lard that is Hamstard, a more appropriate meme to reference than Mudkipz would be Hot Skitty on Wailord Action. ;)
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby drachefly » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:35 am

Saladman wrote:If he has gotten new ideas, and if he were to defeat Parson/GK, then he'd be truly unbeatable for still another age of unending warfare on Erf.


... unless unending warfare ceases to be necessary for his ultimate goals. It's possible that unending warfare itself is not among them.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby effataigus » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:46 am

Saladman wrote:I've got to admit I did not catch that until I read this. (Though, since I came straight here I didn't miss out.) Its actually an interesting effect given the art-page is presumably only what Charlie would see if had cracked the 'books before the security update.


Whoa... I assumed it was a mistake, but this makes way more sense.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby Amado » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:00 am

Goshen wrote:Dear Lord! I see it now... Charlie IS the Hamstard!!!


Nope. Charlie is Parson's grandfather.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby effataigus » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:01 am

Amado wrote:
Goshen wrote:Dear Lord! I see it now... Charlie IS the Hamstard!!!


Nope. Charlie is Parson's grandDAUGHTER.

... because, why not?
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby drachefly » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:27 am

If we're going there, why not both?
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby joosy » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:30 am

As long as we are pretending that the characters in Erfworld are actually real and not just bits of Balder's imagination that he is gracious enough to share with us, here is my surmising as to why Charlie revealed the fact that he could hack the Eyebooks to Parson.

First, Charlie had met someone that he was impressed by. Someone that he respected more than others and he wanted to have Parson be impressed by him as well. Bonus effect of demoralizing the enemy to some degree by removing their sense of security/safety. Perhaps even get them to mistrust each other.

Second, Charlie was arrogant enough to believe that he had this in the bag. At the end of the day he was going to have Parson under his control and hopefully all of the Eye books as well.

That not working out as planned, Charlie has made his mission to manipulate and help the other sides to destroy Gobwin Knob in order to preserve his secret.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby Nnelg » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:31 pm

0beron wrote:
Swodaems wrote:
Spoiler: show
Thinking back on the three eyemancer link, I have my doubts about how well that link was utilized. The Real-time Map feature looked interesting, but given the relative nature of time in Erfworld, real-time observation may actually have been a hinderence. Aside from the RTM display, we didn't see any abilities the component casters could not have mimiced as seperate entities.

Spoiler: show
I disagree, based on the fact that Maggie acknowledge that it was a huge tactical advantage, and one of the best decisions Stanley had made. The fact that (as you commented) Misty would have access to more juice is obviously a big advantage. Additionally, Maggie would provide information relayed from scouts and commanders, which actually saves Misty from looking herself, thereby saving the link juice.

You don't need to take Maggie's (or Wanda's) word for it, anyone who's studied real-world military history as much as I should tell you the same thing. I mean, this thing is such a huge advantage I don't know if I can properly describe how great it truly is.

Many of you have likely only experienced strategy from a gamer's point of view. But no game as of yet can truly simulate the pervasiveness of the phenomena known collectively as "Fog of War". Computer games have made progress in this area, but playability limits how far they can go.

In the real world, nobody has all the information. This you know, but the truth is closer to nobody having even half the information they need. Rarely can a captain give relevant and useful commands to a sergeant, even if such orders reached him in time (if at all). And a captain only has a company of a hundred or two men to worry about, for a colonel with a command of over a thousand to perform the same feat...

Which is why this sort of instant feedback system is the holy grail of command infrastructure. Complete intelligence and instant communications; these are what all other command structures strive to get close to achieving, which this system enacts effortlessly.


0beron wrote:
Spoiler: show
The "Real-Time" aspect is a misleading term, but I don't think it hampers them at all. Stanley would see things happen on the map in the proper order, regardless of when they actually happen. So the table would actually show things happening "faster" than the individual hexes experienced them. Stanley orders a battle that actually takes an hour to resolve...and 30 seconds later it is resolved on the table. So no, relative time isn't a problem here.

Think of it as projecting the battle the way it would be seen on a computer screen, if Erfworld were a computer game such as AoW.

Real-Time, indeed.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby wrecan » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:44 pm

I wonder if it's possible that Charlie got the idea of Kingworld from Parson's musings on the nature of relative time.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby effataigus » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:19 pm

So, if eyebooks are newly unhackable, Parson just needs to tell Maggie to fetch one and give it to Isaac and he can be on his way.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby Kreistor » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:25 pm

Nnelg wrote:You don't need to take Maggie's (or Wanda's) word for it, anyone who's studied real-world military history as much as I should tell you the same thing. I mean, this thing is such a huge advantage I don't know if I can properly describe how great it truly is.

In the real world, nobody has all the information. This you know, but the truth is closer to nobody having even half the information they need. Rarely can a captain give relevant and useful commands to a sergeant, even if such orders reached him in time (if at all). And a captain only has a company of a hundred or two men to worry about, for a colonel with a command of over a thousand to perform the same feat...


WW2. Radar. Sonar. Radio. Absolutely the most important inventions of the war. They performed the functions of the Table. They identified the precise locations of the enemy, allowing the correct planes and ships to be vectored to the enemy by the fastest route possible. Radar won the Battle of Britain. A combination of Radar and Sonar won the Battle of the Atlantic.

And hacked Radio communications lost the Germans Kursk, and the Japanese Midway.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby doran » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:28 pm

effataigus wrote:So, if eyebooks are newly unhackable, Parson just needs to tell Maggie to fetch one and give it to Isaac and he can be on his way.


I'm pretty sure its still just the notes on the books that are unhackable.
Communications between them still can be.

Also, does anyone know what Lookmancy went into the books?
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We're the people sitting around discussing our pet theories based on nomenclature, citing references, discussing ad nauseum while Parson finds out how it works.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby 0beron » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:33 pm

doran wrote:Also, does anyone know what Lookmancy went into the books?

There may not actually be any lookamancy in them, unless transmitting visible text counts as something only Look/Think could accomplish when combined. It may be possible that only Fool/Think was REQUIRED, but of course they're not gonna break the link just cus there's a "spare" caster involved.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby zilfallon » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:49 pm

Kreistor wrote:
Nnelg wrote:You don't need to take Maggie's (or Wanda's) word for it, anyone who's studied real-world military history as much as I should tell you the same thing. I mean, this thing is such a huge advantage I don't know if I can properly describe how great it truly is.

In the real world, nobody has all the information. This you know, but the truth is closer to nobody having even half the information they need. Rarely can a captain give relevant and useful commands to a sergeant, even if such orders reached him in time (if at all). And a captain only has a company of a hundred or two men to worry about, for a colonel with a command of over a thousand to perform the same feat...


WW2. Radar. Sonar. Radio. Absolutely the most important inventions of the war. They performed the functions of the Table. They identified the precise locations of the enemy, allowing the correct planes and ships to be vectored to the enemy by the fastest route possible. Radar won the Battle of Britain. A combination of Radar and Sonar won the Battle of the Atlantic.

And hacked Radio communications lost the Germans Kursk, and the Japanese Midway.


Radar, sonar and radio were important but if you say that they were as effective as the power of updating your battlefield awareness INSTANTLY, you're wrong.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby Nnelg » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:27 pm

Kreistor wrote:WW2. Radar. Sonar. Radio. Absolutely the most important inventions of the war. They performed the functions of the Table. They identified the precise locations of the enemy, allowing the correct planes and ships to be vectored to the enemy by the fastest route possible. Radar won the Battle of Britain. A combination of Radar and Sonar won the Battle of the Atlantic.

Exactly my point. Except, none of them even come close to the level of the table.

Radar and sonar give a blip on a screen, and can only work for air and sea anyways. Combat radios are short-ranged, notoriously spotty, easy to intercept or jam, and prone to hardware malfunction.

The table's more like giving every soldier his own dedicated telecommunications/spy satellite, and linking them all together in a single room.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby drachefly » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:40 am

Kreistor wrote:And hacked Radio communications lost the Germans Kursk, and the Japanese Midway.


And the top Japanese admiral.
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Re: Book 2 - Parson's Klog 4

Postby Amado » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:56 am

effataigus wrote:
Amado wrote:
Goshen wrote:Dear Lord! I see it now... Charlie IS the Hamstard!!!


Nope. Charlie is Parson's grandDAUGHTER.

... because, why not?


Okay, so I know that I didn't present my theory with any supporting evidence, nor create a rock-solid and irrefutable line of logic for why my theory <i>must</i> be true. I'm not interested in arguing the point; I do not suppose that my theory must be true. I merely think it an interesting hypothesis that might fit some very-lightly dropped hints.

Q: "Parson?!? What kind of name is that?!?" A: "My grandfather's."
Q: "What, did I wish for this world?" A: "No, Parson, this world wished for you."

That Charlie may be Parson's grandfather is purely a speculation I'm having. But it's based on SOMETHING in the story, and not entirely yanked out of my boophole. Just sayin'.
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