Darkness Rising

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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby ETheBoyce » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:36 pm

I will ignore Tod's most recent plan because it is dumb. T. Coil will start mounted on the left (or right I don't care) tower as far back as I can but maintain RLOS to the ground ahead. I will hopefully also have at least one stack of Brickbats adjacent to me/my mount in addition to Wall. T. Coil will start with orders to Ickypron the first 3 ground archery units preferencing Armolad over all other and level 2s over level 1s, once I cast my mount will be signalled to step back a square so we are both out of RLOS.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:20 am

OOC I'm not really worried about internal walls but knocking down our own gate concerns me.
First off let's see if I've got the idea right. We're knocking down the gate to allow our units to move twice in the first round by delaying ? As thats how I see it.
Why not just have the gate open ? [answer] because it wouldn't afford our units protection by denying line of sight.. Am I correct so far?

If that is the case then why are we knocking it down on combat phase 11... when the elven archery can only enter on combat phase 10 or below ?
Does no-one else see the flaw here ?

By using delaying we can only knock it down before the elves can target or we lose the chance to double move. In fact we can only double move the heavies before the elven ranged enter so there is no point in double moving them. We may as well stand them in the field.

Note : I think it unlikely that the elves will enter the hex before combat phase 5 which is when their bodyguards are allowed to move for the first time. By that point all our units except some of our mages will have lost their previous round's delayed move./OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:31 am

I'd like to weigh in on Tod's/Swodaems's plan as well.

1. It is EPICALLY HILARIOUS. It needs to be implemented NAO.

2. Will has no idea what Tod's planning. Neither does Yuri, so Yuri can't ask the dance like a clown bit. Neither do any of our other characters know, so they can't plan to restrain/space out/look dumbstruck at Tod. Presumably they're walking past Tod, everyone just being all serious, thinking that a bout of earnest diplomacy is about to follow.

3. Since everyone's been speaking OOC, that shouldn't affect Tod's decision. Neither should this post ;)
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:54 am

Well in character we DO know what an IDIOT he was with that "diplomacy" he pulled when he went out to meet the elves a turn away from the city. So based on that we have reason to be generally concerned, even if we don't expect him to be an idiot in the coming battle. However, in order to carry out his plan, he'll have to issue orders, and we will notice then.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:07 am

0beron wrote:Well in character we DO know what an IDIOT he was with that "diplomacy" he pulled when he went out to meet the elves a turn away from the city. So based on that we have reason to be generally concerned, even if we don't expect him to be an idiot in the coming battle. However, in order to carry out his plan, he'll have to issue orders, and we will notice then.
Technically, all conversations related to Ix and Breatheairia took place via Thinkamancy, so only Tod and the King are currently privy to them, unless Tod chose to share them with everyone.

Based on his current plans, I'd say that it's a safe assumption he kept the information to himself.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:14 am

MarbitChow wrote:Technically, all conversations related to Ix and Breatheairia took place via Thinkamancy.

Is that even possible? That would mean a 4-way simultaneous direct thinkagram, not something we have ever seen. Any time we've ever seen groups engaged in thinkagrams, there have been projected floating heads, so here we would have had both Kings floating next to their respective Warlords, all speaking aloud.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:25 am

0beron wrote:Is that even possible? That would mean a 4-way simultaneous direct thinkagram, not something we have ever seen. Any time we've ever seen groups engaged in thinkagrams, there have been projected floating heads, so here we would have had both Kings floating next to their respective Warlords, all speaking aloud.
The thinkagrams were between Tod and the King in Green (Armolad was only involved to initiate it) first, and then just Tod and King Creperum.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:28 am

Ah I see, I misunderstood the situation. *Goes back to re-read and see what Tod would have said aloud in his convo with Creperum and see if that half of the convo tells us anything*
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:34 am

Okay, so all that we know is that Tod offered terms for a surrender from the Elves, and that he used knowledge of Ix to try and intimidate them. We also know through common sense that the terms we demanded were unfair to the Elves, and that negotiations cut off after Tod's initial offer, and that the Elves are still coming towards us. Based on this, Vinny at least is very skeptical about what effect Tod's actions had, and will directly ask him "So, what happened after you bargained with the Elves? They seem to have declined your terms, was there any reaction beyond that?"
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Swodaems » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:56 pm

0beron wrote:"So, what happened after you bargained with the Elves? They seem to have declined your terms, was there any reaction beyond that?"

Tod looks at Vinny and say resignedly, "Creperum told me that he received a thinkagram from Ix. She told him that the elves have made an offer to end their war. A suspiciously generous offer. A city returned, prisoners released, and reparations made. I asked that Creperum ask Queen Dibs that she hold off on accepting the deal until she and we have had a chance to visit each other."

"The speed with which Breatheairia decided to end the war with Ix is odd. If they have a force as close to us as Armolad's is, they should think it sufficient to hurt us already. They sure didn't act like that force was going to turn around when I left, so I don't think they have reevaluated us. If they do still plan to attack us with Armolad's force anyway, Breatheairia should have waited until after the battle to call Ix with a deal, when they had a better idea of our strength or weakness and of what resources they would have remaining from Armolad's force. (I assume they think that Armolad can win.) Right now, they simply don't know how good a deal they could get with Ix because they don't know what, if any, extra force they'll need to hit us with."

"Of course, this could just be an angry and irrational decision from the elves, but I have my doubts about that. The Elves wouldn't have survived as long as they have without some form of pragmatism. I suspect that the Elves already wanted to end their war with Ix before today. They just wanted a good excuse to present to Ix or the world before doing so. They may also think they can intimidate their other enemies if they can crush what they think is their weakest one."

"To counter, I think we need to publicly embarrass Breatheairia. We show the world that Breatheairia is weaker than they want you to believe. If we act like fools, but beat Breatheairia anyway, Breatheairia's other enemies and their allies will start to question how strong Breathairia really is. There's alot of ways to do this: We insult Breatheairia at every opportunity, but back up our insults with a victory. We make absurd lies, but make it seem like Breatheairia fell for it anyway. We could send an extremely large amount of scouts deep into Breatheairian territory and tell everyone about any weakpoints we find that we can't take advantage of ourselves. Just surviving everything Breatheairia throws at us for a long time will make them look impotent." (Ahh, the joys of political warfare.)

Werebiscuit wrote:If that is the case then why are we knocking it down on combat phase 11... when the elven archery can only enter on combat phase 10 or below ?
I just said combat phase 11 in round 1 as an example, I'm actually think of starting the melee fight sometime in round 2 or 3, long after the elven archery has entered the hex.

Werebiscuit wrote: Note : I think it unlikely that the elves will enter the hex before combat phase 5 which is when their bodyguards are allowed to move for the first time. By that point all our units except some of our mages will have lost their previous round's delayed move./OOC
Yes, they may act like that, but we should still be prepared to accept the advantage if it appears.

Since we're talking about keeping our melee out of the fight for a round or two. I've listed ideas that our ranged (including our ballista captains,) might be able to do with their delayed actions below: Everyone is assumed to be starting dodging and delaying.
Cupid, Will, and Rolf: Not possible for enemies to enter the hex before they lose their inital delayed actions,
Yuri: Only Amandaria and a rider could possibly enter the hex before Yuri loses his delayed action, so if they do, he might as well take the shot. * (See note below)
T. Coil and the Com 10 garrison archers and Skarchers: Could possibly get a chance at Amandaria or the gumptons with their delayed actions. T. Coil could stun 3 gumptons and the Archers could fire on them.
Com 7 garrison and zed archers: Could get shots at Amandaria, gumptons, or Com 10 elven archers. Should go for archers in my opinion.
Triage: If we have wounded at Com =7, Triage could heal them before using the action he gets at com=6 to prepare for the faerie fight.
Bill: He could fire at various ground forces at Com =6 or higher before using his Com =5 action to prepare for the faerie fight
Comet, Our lone npc flier: could possibly fire at ground forces at com =5 or higher
Vinny & Junetta: the delayed actions of these two are actually part of my current faerie fight plan.

Note on Yuri's available targets: His ring is currently increasing his combat as counted for his phase by 2 to 16. If he starts out holding it, but not having it attuned, his new combat of 14 would let him possibly target the Gumptons with his delayed action on combat phase 15. (Item attunement rules listed below.)
MarbitChow wrote:In general, passing equipment (such as a potion) between adjacent units is a free action. In an attempt to prevent the obvious abuse I see coming based on that, I'm going to declare that units have to spend a single action attuning themselves to a magic item before they can use it properly, if the item in question is currently attuned to another user. (This is the weapon/magic item equivalent to 'equipping it', since most weapons are simply hand-held.)

I'd say that, if the gumptons don't come thru, Yuri could use his delayed action to instead reattune to his ring, but I believe this next rule prevents that possibility.
MarbitChow wrote:If a unit wants to take an action that is conditional based on the outcome of a certain phase, it must act on the next phase.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:18 pm

Swodaems wrote:[Explanation of what his diplomacy led to.]

"Well, you did take a rather big, and needless risk with that move, so it appears that came right back to bite us." Vinny sighs. "We had best focus on the confrontation at hand, and deliver a resounding defeat to the Elves. I think that merely by taking careful steps to ensure our continued success, we will have an impact on the Elves' allies and enemies. Once we have defended this city and taken another one, we will have plenty of ammo to entice Ix back into battle, and even chip away at Jetstone's confidence in their ally. Anyone nearby who sees the Elves losing will be eager to take a cut of their territory before we can. Until then, we should avoid any more wild gambles or antics I think." Vinny muses.
So yes, everything about Ix is now common knowledge (among the PCs only though, telling the normal units would be bad for morale, and telling our former Elf comrades could damage their Loyalty)
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby The Colonel » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:51 pm


Titans, this is going to come back and bite us in our ass. Next time before you try any of your plans, please clear them with us. You're a savant at combat. But diplomacy, I think Yuri handled it better.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:00 pm

Swodaems wrote:
Werebiscuit wrote:If that is the case then why are we knocking it down on combat phase 11... when the elven archery can only enter on combat phase 10 or below ?
I just said combat phase 11 in round 1 as an example, I'm actually think of starting the melee fight sometime in round 2 or 3, long after the elven archery has entered the hex.


You realize that by com 15 on round 2 the elves can have all 8 gumptions knocking on our twin towers ? I'd really rather like to put a stop to that, which means meeting them in the field before that time.
Now granted we can do that by delaying the melee in round 1 and making use of their move in round 2 for the delayed move plus their regular move but that regular move will be after com 15 so really we're talking about getting in position to stop the wall onslaught using a move of 8. Even if the doors vanished I don't believe we could get enough units into position given how they'll be packed behind the doors.
The gate squares are R, S T & U with 8 move the furthest that units can reach are the J and AC columns leaving a gumps in the H & I or F&G columns to reach the towers. Similarly on the other side a gump in the AD & AE or AF & AG columns cannot be stopped from reaching the tower
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:11 pm

To help you start visualizing your troops :
Image
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Swodaems » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:30 am

Werebiscuit wrote:You realize that by com 15 on round 2 the elves can have all 8 gumptions knocking on our twin towers ?
Yep, that's why the melee battle starts at Com 7* round 2 if we want to go to them and com 15 on round 3 if we want them to come to us. (*We either start the gate opening on com 7 round 1, or we knock it down on com 8 round 2.)

If we start the melee fight at Com 7 round 2, there are a couple advantages: Our melee is protected from the elven archers for the first and probably most deadly, round. The elves are forced to choose between sending their gumptons forward to the towers before we open the doors. They can only fit 5 on a tower in round 2 and the formation needed to do that leaves gumps towards the middle of the map exposed to what I can do to them. I'm actually hoping the gumptons choose to start pounding by the time I get the gates open because this seperates them from most help and the towers can take about 10 hits before going down. (MarbitChow could send in the Com 8 warriors as a blocking line, but I've got an idea for getting around that problem if it comes up.)

Starting the combat at Com 15 on round 3 involves letting the Gumptons actually damage the gate and/or one of the towers enough to come in. (So long as they don't get both towers, the city repairs fully.) I think this idea is a bit sub-optimal, but we can actually use it to our advantage with a little forethought. (I'd rather the structures take damage when compared to losing units. The whole lives vs things issue aside, Units require popping time to replace and structures don't.)

I think one of the best things we can do to help with the Gumpton situation is talk T. Coil into using ickypron on them as often as he can. He can stun 3, 6 if lucky, in the first round and another 3 in the second. With good choice of targets, this could serve our side far better than the swifter croaking of a few archers. We have 30 units with bows in the hex and 2 with ballistas capable of slaming their archery hard, but only one unit who can stun. (Junetta doesn't count because her stun can be removed.)

And looking at that picture, I think we need to start kicking casters off of mounts. Fitting 4 or 5 2X2 units on top of the towers along with the other units that have to be there is going to be very hard and complex dodging manuvers are right out. (The only units that really have to be there are the ones directly participating in the faerie fight. )

MarbitChow, a few questions: 1. If we knock down interior walls, can we pile the debris somewhere? 2. Can we start with the door most of the way open? (A one round wait time is horrible.) 3. Can we kick the uncroaked marbits off of the tower or wall in battle? Onto other units?
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:37 am

Swodaems wrote: I'm actually hoping the gumptons choose to start pounding by the time I get the gates open because this seperates them from most help and the towers can take about 10 hits before going down. (MarbitChow could send in the Com 8 warriors as a blocking line, but I've got an idea for getting around that problem if it comes up.)

Starting the combat at Com 15 on round 3 involves letting the Gumptons actually damage the gate and/or one of the towers enough to come in. (So long as they don't get both towers, the city repairs fully.) I think this idea is a bit sub-optimal,


OOC Sub-optimal ? By Com 15 on round 3 each tower (and I mean both of them) could have taken 8 gumption hits. They can get 4 gumptions to each tower by com 15 on round 2 and each gumption can hit twice by com 15 on round 3. By com 15 on round 4 both towers will be down. We'd need to be assured of taking out 6 gumptions on round 3 to prevent this happening in round 4.
You really want to risk 9,000 schmuckers ?
I can agree with structures taking damage to save lives but we dont want to reduce city level. I doubt King Creperum would be pleased.

if you let me know your strategy for slowing/impairing the gumptions then maybe, just maybe it can work.
Ickypron will help but it will only buy us a round. I believe we need more than that. /OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:50 am

Swodaems wrote:MarbitChow, a few questions: 1. If we knock down interior walls, can we pile the debris somewhere?
Sure. Each square you knock down would allow you to fill up one square completely (providing cover and preventing move into it), or make 4 squares into "rough terrain", which cost double move to pass through.

Swodaems wrote:2. Can we start with the door most of the way open? (A one round wait time is horrible.)
Yes. You can stop the process of opening the door at any point you want. To make the function and protection from the door a bit more realistic, then, I'll say that the door blocks RLOS as long as it is 3/4ths closed, provides cover if it is between 3/4ths and 1/4th closed, and provides no bonus if it is less than 1/4th closed.

The door only prevents movement while it is completely closed; while it is partially open, it restricts movement as follows:
    1/4th open : Only a single unit that occupies one tile can pass through each phase.
    half open: 2 regular units or one 2x2 unit can pass through each phase.
    3/4ths open : 4 regular units or one 2x2 unit can pass through each phase.
    Fully open : No restrictions.
Swodaems wrote:3. Can we kick the uncroaked marbits off of the tower or wall in battle? Onto other units?
Throwing them off the tower will apply falling damage to them, which will likely eliminate them from the fight. For now, if they successfully Bull Rush the target unit they fall on, they'll inflict d6 damage plus d6 per level (so 2d6 from walls, 3d6 from tower) that they started from. This damage ignores defense. If they fail to bull rush, they'll inflict just d6 damage which ignores defense. If the target is actively Dodging, the target takes no damage.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:41 am

I agree about the mounts issue, I had not expected to be given a Mount. I think they should be saved for Leadership and T. Coil.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:22 am

The above image should not be taken as final - it was just a guide to prod you along and start making final decisions about positioning and mount assignment. (I figured I needed art assets showing every non-heavy PC mounted at some point, so I started cranking them out last night.)
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:53 am

Ah ok, yeah I sympathize....people need to start finalizing stuff. Here is a suggestion of where to put people (each list is stacked together), just to get the ball rolling:
Left Tower
  • Tod (mounted)
  • T. Coil (mounted)
  • Vinny
  • Junetta
  • Brick
  • A Heavy for the Balista
Right Tower
  • Yuri
  • William
  • Rolf
  • Triage
  • 2 Bodyguard?
  • Cupid & other Flier(stacked but not on the tower)
Ground Force
Led by Wanderus, stack as you guys see fit.
Colonel stacks with Wanderus or his horde, depending on the situation, and will climb the Right Tower when he needs RLOS.

This puts our most valuable/weak units with Tod to get the highest bonus, next most valuable units with our 2nd best leadership, and puts expendable units on the ground.
Last edited by 0beron on Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
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