Erfworld Matrix Game II

by **LTDave** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:37 pm

Post Time: 3242 -
ETheBoyce Argument: Stoneheart Expands to the borders of Nobgrub Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 2 Outcome: SUCCESS

Exate Argument: Yes, and doing so pushes their capabilities so far they become WAR-WEARY, and worse, expend their MASSIVE FORTUNE until they are APPALLINGLY PENNILESS (This Yes, And was so negative that I changed it to the +1 to a -1, but it succeeded anyway…)

The Colonel Argument: Yes Stoneheart Expands to the borders of Nobgrub, but the expansion stops the secession of Nobgrub's recently conquered territory Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 3 Outcome: SUCCESS

ETheBoyce Argument: The Waaagh of Nogrub suffers from a Secession of it's recently conquered territory Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 1 Outcome: SUCCESS

The Colonel Argument: Nobgrub rebuilds its officer Core. (Restore the clever warlords) Rating: Very Strong Goal: 5 Roll: 5 Outcome: SUCCESS

Exate Argument: The Kingdom of Flimsywhimble gifts Nobgrub back their now-DRAINED COFFERS, resolving the ongoing DIPLOMATIC CRISIS for both parties and gaining Flimsywhimble a reputation as SAVVY TRADERS! Rating: Very Strong Goal: 5 Roll: 5 Outcome: SUCCESS

LTDave Argument: The Empire of the Rising Hedgepig has NUMEROUS SLEEPER AGENTS Rating: Very Strong Goal: 5 Roll: 1 Outcome: SUCCESS

LTDave Argument: The Kingdom of Flimsiwhimble has EXTRAORDINARY ARROGANCE Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 3 Outcome: FAIL

Watermonkey314 Argument: The INDOOR PLUMBING of Acotise spreads RAMPANT DISEASE throughout the SILVER SEA Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 1 Outcome: SUCCESS

Watermonkey314 Argument: Stoneheart throws a AN ILL-FATED BANQUET Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 3 Outcome: FAIL

by **LTDave** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:53 pm

Post Time: 3734

Competing Arguments:
-
The Colonel Argument: Yes Stoneheart Expands to the borders of Nobgrub, but the expansion stops the secession of Nobgrub's recently conquered territory Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 6 Outcome: FAIL
ETheBoyce Argument: The Waaagh of Nogrub suffers from a Secession of it's recently conquered territory Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 5 Outcome: FAIL
The Colonel Argument: Yes Stoneheart Expands to the borders of Nobgrub, but the expansion stops the secession of Nobgrub's recently conquered territory Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 6 Outcome: FAIL
ETheBoyce Argument: The Waaagh of Nogrub suffers from a Secession of it's recently conquered territory Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 5 Outcome: FAIL
The Colonel Argument: Yes Stoneheart Expands to the borders of Nobgrub, but the expansion stops the secession of Nobgrub's recently conquered territory Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 6 Outcome: FAIL
ETheBoyce Argument: The Waaagh of Nogrub suffers from a Secession of it's recently conquered territory Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 3 Outcome: FAIL
The Colonel Argument: Yes Stoneheart Expands to the borders of Nobgrub, but the expansion stops the secession of Nobgrub's recently conquered territory Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 5 Outcome: FAIL
ETheBoyce Argument: The Waaagh of Nogrub suffers from a Secession of it's recently conquered territory Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 3 Outcome: FAIL
The Colonel Argument: Yes Stoneheart Expands to the borders of Nobgrub, but the expansion stops the secession of Nobgrub's recently conquered territory Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 5 Outcome: FAIL
ETheBoyce Argument: The Waaagh of Nogrub suffers from a Secession of it's recently conquered territory Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 3 Outcome: FAIL
The Colonel Argument: Yes Stoneheart Expands to the borders of Nobgrub, but the expansion stops the secession of Nobgrub's recently conquered territory Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 1 Outcome: SUCCESS
ETheBoyce Argument: The Waaagh of Nogrub suffers from a Secession of it's recently conquered territory Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 5 Outcome: FAIL

by **LTDave** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:01 pm

Empire Information

Spoiler: show

No Map this turn as I am still away from my home computer...

by **LTDave** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:14 am

Oh, and 48 hours to post orders from the above post. So, 36 hours from this post.

by **Exate** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:58 pm

I have no brilliant new schemes this round. Let's rehash some old, failed ones.

Flimsywhimble takes back the NORTHERN MOUNTAINS and CONQUERED FORESTS!
-The forces of Nobgrub are crippled by their DRAINED COFFERS, and their continuing INTERNAL STRIFE leaves them with nowhere near enough forces to seriously garrison all their massive conquered territories, so much of the lands can be taken uncontested!
-Flimsywhimble's EXCEPTIONAL AIRFORCE, POWERFUL ARTIFACTS, MIGHTY BEASTS, and even PLUCKY WARLORDS are well suited to locating and then utterly smashing those few forces who are being kept in proper military orders!
-Flimsywhimle's SAGE ADVISERS have had plenty of time to prepare an effective strategy for achieving their VICTORIOUS DESTINY!

The Empire of the Rising Hedgepig has a TREASONOUS SPYMISTRESS!
-Their FANTASTIC SPIES demand a capable coordinator, whose power and skill could easily go to her head!
-The Empire's merely MODEST WEALTH brings the IMPRESSIVE RULER's competence into question- all that flash and impressiveness doesn't necessarily lead to wisdom!
-The ALL-PERVASIVE INTELLIGENCE NETWORK of the Empire brings word of exciting new foreign ways of doing things, very tempting for someone with power and a high opinion of themselves to implement!

by **LTDave** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:32 pm

I've missed the deadline for this turn, but so have most players.

A Seven Hour extension is granted...

by **WaterMonkey314** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:20 pm

Primary:

RAMPANT DISEASE contaminates the water around the Silver Sea!
-RAMPANT DISEASE has already contaminated the Sea itself.
-The disease is clearly water-borne, demonstrated by its spread from the INDOOR PLUMBING of Acotise.
-DISEASE spreads easily (hence its name).

Exate wrote:The Empire of the Rising Hedgepig has a TREASONOUS SPYMISTRESS!
-Their FANTASTIC SPIES demand a capable coordinator, whose power and skill could easily go to her head!
-The Empire's merely MODEST WEALTH brings the IMPRESSIVE RULER's competence into question- all that flash and impressiveness doesn't necessarily lead to wisdom!
-The ALL-PERVASIVE INTELLIGENCE NETWORK of the Empire brings word of exciting new foreign ways of doing things, very tempting for someone with power and a high opinion of themselves to implement!

Secondary:

Yes, and the ALL-PERVASIVE INTELLIGENCE NETWORK is disbanded as a result!
-The network has NUMEROUS SLEEPER AGENTS who may go rogue.
-The network has FANTASTIC SPIES who may be too good for their own well-being.
-The Empire is led by an IMPRESSIVE RULER who recognizes the threat posed by an overly powerful, poorly-controlled covert agency.

by **The Colonel** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:32 am

Nobgrub solves its INTERNAL STRIFE
1) Clever warlords know a house divide will fall, therefore they solve their internal issues first.
2) Able Administrators are capable of keeping everybody well fed, giving them no reason to fight.
3) Strong Military presence silences dissenters really fast.

Flimsywhimble does not take back the NORTHERN MOUNTAINS and CONQUERED FORESTS because
1) Nobgrub's Strong military has been restored to it's former glory. This allows Nobgrub to fight off the attempted invasion.
2) The Clever Warlords have read the Art Of War and know when the enemy is sending gifts, he is about to attack therefore increase military presence in the territories.
3) The returned drained coffers are absorbed back into the regular nobgrubian coffers making Exate's first argument a stupid one.(THIS DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE! RETURNING DRAINED COFFERS DOES NOT BADLY EFFECT THE REGULAR COFFERS!)

by **ETheBoyce** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:53 am

Stoneheart shakes off its Decadent Sloth and regains its Massive Fortune
1. The Vast Golem Army can be put to use in the Abundant Mines securing wealth
2. The Adept and Plentiful Casters use magic to encourage people out of their lazt ways
3. Stoneheart has an Honorable Reputation its people will not betray this by being lazy and poor

Exate wrote:Flimsywhimble takes back the NORTHERN MOUNTAINS and CONQUERED FORESTS!
-The forces of Nobgrub are crippled by their DRAINED COFFERS, and their continuing INTERNAL STRIFE leaves them with nowhere near enough forces to seriously garrison all their massive conquered territories, so much of the lands can be taken uncontested!
-Flimsywhimble's EXCEPTIONAL AIRFORCE, POWERFUL ARTIFACTS, MIGHTY BEASTS, and even PLUCKY WARLORDS are well suited to locating and then utterly smashing those few forces who are being kept in proper military orders!
-Flimsywhimle's SAGE ADVISERS have had plenty of time to prepare an effective strategy for achieving their VICTORIOUS DESTINY!
!

Yes, and Flimsywhimble's Victorious Destiny is achieved in this battle cause their Great Luck to run dry as well
1. Conquering such huge tracts of land is a task itslef worthy of Destiny
2. Beating the forces of Nobgrub is no mean feat and will require all the Luck they posses
3. Their Plucky Warlords will try daring and dangerous plans that only succeed by sheer force of Plot!

by **LTDave** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:33 am

The Grand Army of the Empire of the Rising Hedgepig marches to the gates of Stoneheart...
* The Grand Army is Grand, and recently victorious over the fiendish Acotisians
* The Army has a hefty warchest, sufficient to pay wages and for supplies
* The Army is assisted by the Empire's Fantastic Spies, who ensure the path to Stoneheart is clear

The Prince of Acotisia has been assassinated!
* The people of Acotisia are Unhappy and suffering from horrible disease
* The upper crust of Acotise are horrified at the mindless pollution of the beautiful oceans of our world
* The recent military defeats have frustrated the generals who have plotted against the Prince

by **LTDave** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:46 am

Post Time: 3328 -

Exate Argument: Flimsywhimble takes back the NORTHERN MOUNTAINS and CONQUERED FORESTS! Rating: Very Strong Goal: 5 Roll: 4 Outcome: SUCCESS

ETheBoyce Argument: Yes, and Flimsywhimble's Victorious Destiny is achieved in this battle cause their Great Luck to run dry as well

The Colonel Argument: No, Actually they fail. Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 5 Outcome: FAIL

Exate Argument: The Empire of the Rising Hedgepig has a TREASONOUS SPYMISTRESS! Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 6 Outcome: FAIL

Watermonkey314 Argument: Yes, and the ALL-PERVASIVE INTELLIGENCE NETWORK is disbanded as a result! +1 to the above (Normal becomes Strong)

Watermonkey314 Argument: RAMPANT DISEASE contaminates the water around the Silver Sea! Rating: Normal Goal: 3 Roll: 5 Outcome: FAIL

The Colonel Argument: Nobgrub solves its INTERNAL STRIFE Rating: Normal Goal: 3 Roll: 1 Outcome: SUCCESS

ETheBoyce Argument: Stoneheart shakes off its Decadent Sloth and regains its Massive Fortune Rating: Very Strong Goal: 5 Roll: 1 Outcome: SUCCESS

LTDave Argument: The Grand Army of the Empire of the Rising Hedgepig marches to the gates of Stoneheart... Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 5 Outcome: FAIL

LTDave Argument: The Prince of Acotisia has been assassinated Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 5 Outcome: FAIL

by **LTDave** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:52 am

Empire Information

Spoiler: show

Map:

Spoiler: show

48 hours to post orders.

by **The Colonel** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:10 am

Nobgrub reclaims its old territories.
- Nobgrub has a strong Military with a lot of Clever Warlords, do the maths.
- Nobgrub's populace are angry at Flimsiwhimble for the invasion, demanding a Response from the Military.
- Nobgrub has an already built supply network in the territories, making it easier for the armies to march from battle to battle and transport food and ammunition.

Nobgrub's drained coffers are returned with an angry note and untouched to Flimsiwhimble. (The drained coffers thing does not make ANY amount of sense. Really? )
- The new proximity of Flimsiwhimble territory makes it easier to return the drained coffers.
- The Drained coffers are badly affecting the Nobgrubian economy, the Able Administrators and Clever Warlords know that.
- Nobgrub's Strong Military and Hardworking Workforce are INSULTED by the coffers business and the only thing stopping them from declaring war is a returning of the insult.

by **Exate** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:50 am

The Colonel wrote:3) The returned drained coffers are absorbed back into the regular nobgrubian coffers making Exate's first argument a stupid one.(THIS DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE! RETURNING DRAINED COFFERS DOES NOT BADLY EFFECT THE REGULAR COFFERS!)

The Colonel wrote:(The drained coffers thing does not make ANY amount of sense. Really? )

It's how the game is designed. Traits do not have persistent memory, and things outside the traits are of arguable existence at best. There are no "regular coffers"; Nobgrub has no other financial traits that you can invoke to support that idea (though you could cobble something together with your other traits if you really wanted to make the argument). The DRAINED COFFERS don't remember ever belonging to Flimsywhimble, and they don't care that they were given away; they are simply DRAINED COFFERS and have to be worked with from there.

That's one of the things that makes it so important to choose the traits that you want to gain or inflict carefully. A trait which, in the context of the turn it was created, seems to do one thing might be used for something completely different somewhere down the line. In this case, we've got DRAINED COFFERS which, though they were originally meant as a flip-flop of a positive financial trait into a negative one, are just as eligible to be passed around like a cursed item as any other negative trait, so long as there's some logic which can support the exchange.

The same is true of basically any negative (or positive) trait. This game is all about manipulating the traits that the different factions possess- logical arguments are only relevant on a turn-by-turn basis, not as part of any overall cohesive picture.

by **LTDave** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:20 am

With a few minutes to go, and only one set of arguments, I'm wondering if folks are losing interest in this game.

I'll give another 24 hours for responses, and ask that players indicate if they wish to go on, or move on.

Thanks!

by **ETheBoyce** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:31 am

I think the issue is that people who go later have an advantage so it makes sense to play a waiting game to try and screw with other people's orders.

Stoneheart overcomes its War Weariness and invades Nobgrub surrounding and laying siege to its capital!

1. Stoneheart has an Honorable Reputation and part of Honor is fighting to prove one's worth and the people of Stoneheart know this
2. Stoneheart's Massive Fortune funds its war effort which includes Unerring Ranged Units and a Vast Golem Army all of which are equipped with an Unparalleled Magical Armory
3. Stoneheart's Adept Caster and Plentiful Casters provide both magical motivation/propaganda to incite its citizens to war as well as a magical superiority over the Nonexistant Caster of Nobgrub

by **Exate** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:02 am

I do want to continue, but I agree that the incentive here is always to delay- I've been pretty good about most turns, but this one I've been missing things a bit.

Stoneheart overcomes its War Weariness and invades Nobgrub surrounding and laying siege to its capital!

Yes, and Flimsywhimble then assaults their forces, capturing their most ADEPT CASTERS and forcing them to seize control of the VAST GOLEM ARMY in Flimsywhimble's name!
1. Flimsywhimble's PLUCKY WARLORDS are just the sort of leaders to try this kind of gambit, and they have the EXCEPTIONAL AIRFORCE to do it!
2. Stoneheart is WAR-WEARY enough that in their advance, they neglected their normally-SUPERB DEFENSES and the fact that they left their IMPENETRABLE WALLS far behind!
3. Once the best casters are captured, it's a simple matter for the CHARISMATIC PARTISAN to use the appropriate POWERFUL ARTIFACTS to convert them to Flimsywhimble's side, impressing them with its recently-FULFILLED VICTORIOUS DESTINY- and then for the ADEPT CASTERS to turn their VAST GOLEM ARMY in turn!

Nobgrub's ABLE ADMINISTRATION is burdened by the constant warfare, becoming an OVERWORKED ADMINISTRATION!
1. The conquest, then loss of THE NORTHERN MOUNTAINS and CONQUERED FORESTS TO THE NORTH-EAST has been a massive paperwork nightmare!
2. The DRAINED COFFERS of Nobgrub leave them doing everything on a less-than-shoestring budget, which is often impossible!
3. The news of the FULFILLED VICTORIOUS DESTINY of their rival Flimsywhimble is massively demoralizing, causing work slowdowns and mistakes just when Nobgrub can least afford it!

by **LTDave** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:40 am

The Grand Army of the Empire of the Rising Hedgepig marches to the gates of Stoneheart...
* The Grand Army is Grand, and recently victorious over the fiendish Acotisians
* The Army has a hefty warchest, sufficient to pay wages and for supplies
* The Army is assisted by the Empire's Fantastic Spies, who ensure the path to Stoneheart is clear

The Prince of Acotisia has been assassinated!
* The people of Acotisia are Unhappy and suffering from horrible disease
* The upper crust of Acotise are horrified at the mindless pollution of the beautiful oceans of our world
* The recent military defeats have frustrated the generals who have plotted against the Prince

by **LTDave** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:27 am

Post Time: 4026 -
The Colonel Argument: Nobgrub reclaims its old territories Rating: Normal Goal: 3 Roll: 6 Outcome: FAIL

The Colonel Argument: Flimsiwhimble's drained coffers are returned with an angry note and untouched Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 6 Outcome: FAIL

{Some bad rolls for the Colonel}

ETheBoyce Argument: Stoneheart overcomes its War Weariness and invades Nobgrub surrounding and laying siege to its capital! Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 4 Outcome: SUCCESS

{No secondary from ETheBoyce}

Exate Argument: Flimsywhimble then assaults the Stoneheart forces, capturing their most ADEPT CASTERS and forcing them to seize control of the VAST GOLEM ARMY in Flimsywhimble's name! Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 3 Outcome: FAIL

{Lots of consequences means a big neg modifier - also, can't be a Yes, And, as it violates the A, B, C clause of the rules}

Exate Argument: Nobgrub's ABLE ADMINISTRATION is burdened by the constant warfare, becoming an OVERWORKED ADMINISTRATION! Rating: Normal Goal: 3 Roll: 4 Outcome: FAIL

LTDave Argument: The Grand Army of the Empire of the Rising Hedgepig marches to the gates of Stoneheart... Rating: Strong Goal: 4 Roll: 2 Outcome: SUCCESS

LTDave Argument: The Prince of Acotisia has been assassinated Rating: Weak Goal: 2 Roll: 1 Outcome: SUCCESS

{Some good rolling for me there}

by **LTDave** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:30 am

Empire Information

Spoiler: show

No map. Sleepy.

46 hours to post orders.

Proposed Slight rules change to combat the benefits of delay - the last player to post orders will have a -1 to all their arguments... What do you think?

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