A look at our workflow

Speculation, discoveries, complaints, accusations, praise, and all other Erfworld discussion.

Re: A look at our workflow

Postby Nnelg » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:00 pm

arin wrote:Sorry, man. I owe you one.

If you'll take my advice, I suggest you move your apology to the top of your post, otherwise someone skimming it might only see its initial (still-hostile) tone.


And while I found Erfworld just after the hiatus had ended, and therefore have no first-hand experience of its events and those prior, I think I might have figured out where the confusion originated. There's a lot of work involved in writing a story that can't be done one chapter (or strip) in advance, which is what I assume he was working on (as in laying the groundwork instead of making finished products).

Besides, I thought the point of vacation was to relax and recover.
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: A look at our workflow

Postby Oberon » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:32 pm

balder wrote:The bitch of all of this is that I'm sure that if Arin and I could sit down over a beer for about twenty minutes, I don't think he'd be this way.
So true. Most of online interactions that go bad would dissolve in such a setting. Few people are truly a-holes, it's just that the computer removes the human factor. And I say this as someone who is a fairly blunt and caustic poster at times. When you cannot see the facial expression of the person you're addressing, and when text removes all humor or sarcasm or any other emotion from the discussion, it's too easy to read what is written more darkly than it was intended.
balder wrote:GenCon was a huge emotional boost for Xin and for me. We met and smiled with dozens and dozens of readers, shared inside jokes and had a great time.
And hopefully shared a few beers as well!
How using capslock wins arguments:
Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
Oberon
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:59 am

Re: A look at our workflow

Postby drachefly » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:22 pm

arin wrote:
0beron wrote:I'm actually going to disagree slightly with Arin's wording here. I don't feel there was a "miscommunication". I'm look at this post where Rob told us he's working on things we'd be reading in October...when in fact there was no buffer as we assumed based on his news post. ...
... Maybe he was just outlining the plot and estimating around the point we'd get to that part in the plot.


Yeah. In a serial I've been working on, I've lately been working on things I expect will be released some time around january, but I've got a buffer of just 1 installment. It's that I need to know what's going to happen in january before I can even confirm the one in my buffer, let alone move past it!
User avatar
drachefly
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:36 pm

Re: A look at our workflow

Postby TheMutant » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:32 pm

Cheers to Rob and Xin, y'all have my support through updates and hiatus, as you always have. ;)

C'mon, guys. Do we really need to start posting the 'George R. R. Martin is not your bitch' article around? Because I'm sure it has been already somewhere. Erfworld is entertainment- free entertainment, (and yes, I still consider it free even though I donated to the Kickstarter and am a Tool- I donated because Erfworld pleases me and I wanted to support it, not because I thought of it as a business transaction wherein I am now owed x things from the Erfworld team)- when there's an update, I am happy. When there is not an update, I shrug and use my wasted half-minute to go read TvTropes or, (god forbid), take it as a hint that I should do something productive instead (pffffft). Or doodle more nonsense for my art thread, because Erfworld's setting also makes me happy and I enjoy doing it. Posts made to try and incite discontent from the community like Arin's help no one and nothing.
Join the Erflings fanart gallery on DeviantArt!

Sixty wrote:Obviously the mystery caster has no particular feelings one way or the other about Parson, he simply heard "cue the Benny Hill music" and gave chase, compelled to do so by forces outside his control.
User avatar
TheMutant
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Washington State

Re: A look at our workflow

Postby arin » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:13 am

TheMutant wrote:C'mon, guys. Do we really need to start posting the 'George R. R. Martin is not your bitch' article around? Because I'm sure it has been already somewhere.


Okay, even though this time I was full of hot air because of my own misconceptions and Rob was completely in the right (well, other than that .gif, but he already apologized for that), I'd like to explain to the people who don't "get it" exactly how someone can get so worked up over a simple webcomic in the first place.

A webcomic is a completely different medium from a book. George R. R. Martin doesn't directly talk to us about publishing deadlines - he talks to the people who produce his books, and those people are the filter for how often a book comes out and how much it's expected to contain. George R. R. Martin doesn't sell his own merchandising, he does it through third party companies. When he appears at a con or gives a speech to fans, the tone is 90+% "professional" - he doesn't really take the time to know his fans personally.

Webcomic authors are different. They sell their own stuff, they discuss their scheduling plans with their readers directly, they "hang out" with their readers in a more social context on the forums and, at least in Rob's case, they kick back and party with their fan/friends as well. In short, they develop MUCH more personal relationships with their readership.

Add to that their stories, which, rather than being disseminated in block form, /trickle/ out through the webcomic medium. If George R. R. Martin's next book is a delicious box of cookies that you go out and buy, then Erfworld is kicking back on your friend's couch and being passed one cookie at a time.

If you've finished all the cookies at home and the store doesn't have another box to sell you because they're out, that can be a little disappointing. But if your friend says "Hey, come over and I'll pass you some cookies" and then when you get there he doesn't have a cookie to give you, that can be frustrating on quite a few levels. The most significant one being that he /said/ he'd have cookies, which means he lied to you. Your friend, who invited you over to his couch to eat cookies, /lied/ about having cookies (to those who contributed money, he lied about buying cookies that you chipped in so he could go to the store and get). So yeah, you can just go home and eat some other cookie, and yeah, it's not like your friend had to offer you cookies in the first place, but the fact is he /did/ offer to have a cookie there for you and then it wasn't there. And you were hungry, so you're cranky about it, but more importantly, your friend lied to you. AGAIN. And he's done it repeatedly throughout your friendship. So eventually you go a little nuts and feel the need to tell him he's being a bad friend, and he should have cookies when he says he's going to. Not because your friendship is based on the cookies - although in this case if you follow the analogy I guess it sort of is - but because you want to be able to take your friend at his word.

(To apply the analogy to this last situation, though, my gripe was basically "You said you'd keep extra cookies in the pantry so we wouldn't run out again, see, it's says in our IMs right h... oh wait. No it doesn't. Okay, my bad, I thought you were stocking up on cookie dough but you were actually still getting over your cold before going out to the store again." It was never about how long it takes him to make cookies, which is why at first I didn't understand why he posted this workflow thread at all - didn't even seem relevant to my gripe. But in responding to him, I found the disconnect, because, since he /didn't/ promise to keep the pantry stocked with cookies, he thought I was mad because I couldn't deal with the possibility that we /might/ run out of cookies in the future. God, what a boophole I must have looked like from that perspective.)

So no, Rob's not my bitch. Rob's my friend who promises to give me cookies sometimes. And he doesn't have to - tomorrow he could decide he doesn't like making cookies anymore, and while I could certainly be disappointed because I love his brand of cookie, I have no right to be made because he never had an obligation to give me cookies in the first place. But sometimes he says he'll give me a cookie and then he doesn't have one, and I get mad because he said he'd have one for me. Sometimes a little extra mad because I chipped in for the cookie dough. And sometimes I think he said he'd have one for me and it turns out I was just having a case of selective hearing because I really love his cookies, and that's when I get to look like an ass and realize I was being a bad friend for not listening well enough, but then, I didn't listen well enough because I was still a little sore over last time when he really did say he'd have a cookie. It's not a relationship with the faceless George R. R. Oreo and when he's gonna stock the supermarket shelves, it's my personal friend who invites me over for cookies.

See the difference? (I hope so because this whole rant has made me very hungry for cookies.)
arin
YOTD Supporter!
YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: A look at our workflow

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:01 am

arin wrote:See the difference? (I hope so because this whole rant has made me very hungry for cookies.)
To use your cookie analogy (because COOKIES ARE AWESOME), it's more like your friend is a chef, who has promised you a new and scrumptious cookie recipe every week, and once he's given you this new recipe, you realize how the flavors of this latest cookie blend so smoothly with his previous cookies, and you go back and taste those other cookies again and they're THAT MUCH BETTER now that you see how the led you to THIS cookie, and some of the cookies just bring tears to your eyes, and others are kinda 'meh' but you understand how the nuances of the 'meh' cookies bring out flavors in OTHER cookies and OH MY GOD SO MANY COOKIES and then your doctor tells you that you should cut back on the cookies but you CAN'T because they are COOKIES and Sesame Street taught you to just gobble them up while making OM NOM NOM NOM noises (and don't even give me that PC crap about how "COOKIES are a SOMETIMES FOOD" because he's not FREAKIN' called FRUITS AND VEGETABLES MONSTER) and your chest is heavy and you're having a hard time breathing but you still keep reaching for ONE MORE COOKIE and then you feel dizzy and there's a bright white light and then YOU GET ALL THE COOKIES THAT EVER WERE OR EVER SHALL BE. AMEN.
User avatar
MarbitChow
 
Posts: 2510
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:41 pm

Re: A look at our workflow

Postby effataigus » Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:36 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
arin wrote:See the difference? (I hope so because this whole rant has made me very hungry for cookies.)
To use your cookie analogy (because COOKIES ARE AWESOME), it's more like your friend is a chef, who has promised you a new and scrumptious cookie recipe every week, and once he's given you this new recipe, you realize how the flavors of this latest cookie blend so smoothly with his previous cookies, and you go back and taste those other cookies again and they're THAT MUCH BETTER now that you see how the led you to THIS cookie, and some of the cookies just bring tears to your eyes, and others are kinda 'meh' but you understand how the nuances of the 'meh' cookies bring out flavors in OTHER cookies and OH MY GOD SO MANY COOKIES and then your doctor tells you that you should cut back on the cookies but you CAN'T because they are COOKIES and Sesame Street taught you to just gobble them up while making OM NOM NOM NOM noises (and don't even give me that PC crap about how "COOKIES are a SOMETIMES FOOD" because he's not FREAKIN' called FRUITS AND VEGETABLES MONSTER) and your chest is heavy and you're having a hard time breathing but you still keep reaching for ONE MORE COOKIE and then you feel dizzy and there's a bright white light and then YOU GET ALL THE COOKIES THAT EVER WERE OR EVER SHALL BE. AMEN.


You just got me so worked up that I robbed a grocery store. I was stopped by the police, but your post helped me convince them to rob the place with me. We're untying the shop owner now since, after reading this, he's on board too. Cooookies for everyone!
Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.
User avatar
effataigus
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: A look at our workflow

Postby drachefly » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:06 am

Did you take one for your friend Farmboy?
User avatar
drachefly
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 1640
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:36 pm

Re: A look at our workflow

Postby Lamech » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:27 pm

Hey the gif is now a reasonable size! This is amazing! That update just keeps on getting better. :D
Lamech
 
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: A look at our workflow

Postby mortissimus » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:30 am

I think that the cookie analogy is good to express why some become frustrated. It is the mismatch between expectations and delivery. So the new schedule is a big step forward and I also think that threads like this one is good as prevention.

Something got me a bit worried though:

which is something above 80 hours a week


Now, we all have different capacity for working a lot and I do not know Rob. But what I do know (from experience) is that when we push ourselves over our own limit for a long time, the body eventually forces a stop and that one can be quite abrupt. I am not going to give any advice on how to decrease the workload, just saying that I have been in a situation where I was working too much for too long (partly because it was so much fun) and where most attempts at decreasing the workload by getting more people involved ended up with more work for me, either because I spend time trying to find people and then did it myself or because it did not work out and I ended up putting more time into instructions then I gained. And eventually the body forced a painful halt.

So no advice, just well wishes. Take care you know.
mortissimus
 
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:04 am

Re: A look at our workflow

Postby Sixty » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:11 am

People were butthurt over the Deal with it gif? I didn't even realize that was possibly offensive, just "hold your horses we'll get more stuff out" but in meme form.
User avatar
Sixty
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 273
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:03 am
Location: Salisbury, Maryland

Previous

Return to Everything Else Erfworld

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest