Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby drachefly » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:11 am

If she IS linked, I'd guess it to be a semi-permanent thing, more like the table than the volcano.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Nnelg » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:38 am

Lamech wrote:TV doesn't have a feasible link.

On another note, the thought of a Money-Doll link summoned up this ridiculous idea:

Bling Golems. Made entirely of gold and gems. Ranged attacks from multiple gold-plated pistols and uzis. Can Dance Fight with rap and hip-hop.
Expect plenty of diamond-incrusted gold '$' symbols.



drachefly wrote:If she IS linked, I'd guess it to be a semi-permanent thing, more like the table than the volcano.

That much is a given: the volcano was a desperation measure, a "well we're going to die anyways" kind of insane risk.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby sheepfly » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:43 am

Lamech wrote:3) It takes a thinkamancer. Of the sides we have seen the caster roaster of GK, Jetstone, FAQ, TV, Unaroyal and Goodmitton, we have only seen two sides with thinkamancers. So most sides cannot call up links. On top of that you need desirable casters to link.


Small correction: Unaroyal actually did have a Thinkamancer. Mentioned by Caesar in the 7th panel here (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F138.jpg) and on the wiki page (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Unaroyal).

So that means that of all the sides whose rosters of casters have been explored, half had thinkamancers, which makes it the most common caster type among sides seen so far. And thinkamancers are incredibly useful in several ways: long distance communication, battle intel, "Ephedra", suggestion spells, caster links, and more. Any side that has one is likely to value it highly, and any side that doesn't have one might benefit from hiring one.

EDIT: One more thought. Perhaps the reason Stanley was willing to use his thinkamancer for a relatively permanent link--whereas other sides known to have thinkamancers have not (as far as we know) done so--is that Stanley had no use for the diplomatic capabilities of his thinkamancer and could rely on the linked Eyemancers for superior (and more easily comprehended) battle intel. A side like Haffaton also appears to have little use for diplomacy, so they might very well have reason to explore a thinkamancer's less-commonly used abilities.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Oberon » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:25 pm

Nnelg wrote:Oh yes, it is technically possible that the sun will rise blue tomorrow. What's more, it's actually possible within the known laws of physics!
No, it is not. And no, it isn't possible within the known laws of physics. You fail physics forever. Our sun is a yellow dwarf and will never pass through a phase which sees it rising blue over the Earth.

Technically possible? You don't even understand those words.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Lamech » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:16 pm

Oberon wrote:
Nnelg wrote:Oh yes, it is technically possible that the sun will rise blue tomorrow. What's more, it's actually possible within the known laws of physics!
No, it is not. And no, it isn't possible within the known laws of physics. You fail physics forever. Our sun is a yellow dwarf and will never pass through a phase which sees it rising blue over the Earth.

Technically possible? You don't even understand those words.
Its one of those 1 in a 10^lots chance kind of things.

sheepfly wrote:Small correction: Unaroyal actually did have a Thinkamancer. Mentioned by Caesar in the 7th panel here (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F138.jpg) and on the wiki page (http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Unaroyal).
The thinkamancer wasn't on the unaroyal list of casters sent back to the MK. Either Ceaser was deliberately lying on general principal or it was a merc caster from the MK. (Or it was croaked, but not in combat with GK. Failed linkup anyone?)

Nnelg wrote:
Lamech wrote:TV doesn't have a feasible link.

On another note, the thought of a Money-Doll link summoned up this ridiculous idea:

Bling Golems. Made entirely of gold and gems. Ranged attacks from multiple gold-plated pistols and uzis. Can Dance Fight with rap and hip-hop.
Expect plenty of diamond-incrusted gold '$' symbols.

Totally a possibility. But what if they cost thousands of shmuckers in gems a piece? Then TV has burned up a caster or two and gotten nothing they can use. Although still that would be amazingly cool. I would love to see rap vs metal dance fight.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby MarbitChow » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:54 pm

Lamech wrote:The thinkamancer wasn't on the unaroyal list of casters sent back to the MK. Either Ceaser was deliberately lying on general principal or it was a merc caster from the MK. (Or it was croaked, but not in combat with GK. Failed linkup anyone?)
Another possibility is that it was one of the already-named casters using Thinkamancy outside of their discipline. Wanda, for example, has been shown to be able to cast spells besides croakamancy. Perhaps Bowie may handle thinkamancy spells for the side, and thus be 'the side's Thinkamancer', even though he's a Changemancer. Commanders for other sides, like Caesar, wouldn't know or care about the distinction between "a Thinkamancer" and "a Changemancer casting Thinkamancy".
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Lamech » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:13 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
Lamech wrote:The thinkamancer wasn't on the unaroyal list of casters sent back to the MK. Either Ceaser was deliberately lying on general principal or it was a merc caster from the MK. (Or it was croaked, but not in combat with GK. Failed linkup anyone?)
Another possibility is that it was one of the already-named casters using Thinkamancy outside of their discipline. Wanda, for example, has been shown to be able to cast spells besides croakamancy. Perhaps Bowie may handle thinkamancy spells for the side, and thus be 'the side's Thinkamancer', even though he's a Changemancer. Commanders for other sides, like Caesar, wouldn't know or care about the distinction between "a Thinkamancer" and "a Changemancer casting Thinkamancy".

Oh true. Or they might have a non-caster that can run basic thinkamancy spells. (Like the Archons.)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Nnelg » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:04 pm

Oberon wrote:
Nnelg wrote:Oh yes, it is technically possible that the sun will rise blue tomorrow. What's more, it's actually possible within the known laws of physics!
No, it is not. And no, it isn't possible within the known laws of physics. You fail physics forever. Our sun is a yellow dwarf and will never pass through a phase which sees it rising blue over the Earth.

Technically possible? You don't even understand those words.

Nnelg wrote:Well, as each photon passes through the atmosphere it has a random chance of scattering. Normally this happens most with the blue wavelengths (which is why the sky is blue), but there is an infinitesimally small chance it could happen to all (visible) wavelengths other than blue.


Lets say you were to sit outside in one spot for a while to watch the sun rise. Let's estimate that a trillion (10^12) non-blue photons are generated by the sun in the direction of your eye in that time period. And perhaps the odds per photon of being scattered away from your eye are one millionth of a percent (10^-6%).

That means the odds of the sun appearing blue to you as you watch it rise are, in this estimate, (10^-6)^(10^12)%. That's a number with more decimals than there are bytes of data on this website. It has almost a thousand zeroes for every living human being on the planet. And that was the conservative estimate.

But no matter how small the odds are, they're more than zero.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Oberon » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:31 am

Nnelg wrote:That means the odds of the sun appearing blue to you as you watch it rise are, in this estimate, (10^-6)^(10^12)%. That's a number with more decimals than there are bytes of data on this website. It has almost a thousand zeroes for every living human being on the planet. And that was the conservative estimate.

But no matter how small the odds are, they're more than zero.
Apparently, the phrase "you fail physics forever" is as foreign to you as is physics itself. You continue to insist that there is a chance that something which is impossible has some small probability of occurring. As Yoda would say, that is why you fail.

The odds of our sun rising blue aren't able to be expressed by your "more than zero" estimate. They are in fact zero. How hard is it for you to understand that this is simply impossible?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Nnelg » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:50 am

Oberon wrote:The odds of our sun rising blue aren't able to be expressed by your "more than zero" estimate. They are in fact zero. How hard is it for you to understand that this is simply impossible?

Pretty hard, seeing as the numbers add up to more than zero.


And the physics is right; need I cite my college textbook? I didn't even mention any of the more exotic means of getting rid of the non-blue wavelengths, such as pair production.


PS @v:
Well, actually an exactly 0 probability is impossible, but it isn't mathematically possible to get exactly 0 for an intersection of independent non-zero probabilities.


PPS @^:
And Yoda told Luke he was failing because he was convinced that things were impossible.
Last edited by Nnelg on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:10 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Lamech » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:54 am

Oberon wrote:
Nnelg wrote:That means the odds of the sun appearing blue to you as you watch it rise are, in this estimate, (10^-6)^(10^12)%. That's a number with more decimals than there are bytes of data on this website. It has almost a thousand zeroes for every living human being on the planet. And that was the conservative estimate.

But no matter how small the odds are, they're more than zero.
Apparently, the phrase "you fail physics forever" is as foreign to you as is physics itself. You continue to insist that there is a chance that something which is impossible has some small probability of occurring. As Yoda would say, that is why you fail.

The odds of our sun rising blue aren't able to be expressed by your "more than zero" estimate. They are in fact zero. How hard is it for you to understand that this is simply impossible?
Look unless you are arguing that the sun does NOT generate blue photons or photons cannot be scattered away from your eye (Or simply not get sent in the direction of your eye), he is correct. Highly improbably =! impossible.

It is possible for the air to freeze solid. It is possible for nuclear reactions to spontaneously react all over the planet and slag the crust. It is possible for every atom in your body to be fused into iron. Absurdly improbable yes. However a low probability (or a 0 probability for that matter) does not equate with being impossible.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby ftl » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:31 am

In practice, it does...

I mean, at the point where you'd say "The probability of my having gone insane is higher than the probability of this actually happening" you might as well just call it impossible instead of quibbling about probabilities.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Nnelg » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:12 am

Of course, in practice.

But this is not in practice; this is in theory. And in theory these things are possible if extremely unlikely to happen ever.


I'm trying to prove a point here: one needs to have an open mind.

If the sun rising blue one morning is technically possible, so too are Epileptic Trees- and those are much more likely by comparison.

So one definitely should not be called an idiot just for saying "Maggie=Charlie" is possible, because it is. Even if they claim it is likely, they can have their own reasons for thinking so other than being unintelligent.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Atomic » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:54 am

(Am I the only one waiting for Bland to pop into this discussion about a blue sun?)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Oberon » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:19 am

Nnelg wrote:Pretty hard, seeing as the numbers add up to more than zero.
The numbers you invented. In reality, the numbers do not add up to more than zero.
Lamech wrote:Highly improbably =! impossible.

It is possible for the air to freeze solid. It is possible for nuclear reactions to spontaneously react all over the planet and slag the crust. It is possible for every atom in your body to be fused into iron. Absurdly improbable yes. However a low probability (or a 0 probability for that matter) does not equate with being impossible.
You also fail physics forever. None of those things you mentioned are at all possible. The probability for them to occur is indeed zero.

If you want to invent some circumstances, you can cause the atmosphere to freeze. That doesn't make for a possibility in reality land, you'll have just changed the circumstances in order to support your conclusion. Any fool can do that.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Nnelg » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:46 pm

Oberon wrote:The numbers you invented. In reality, the numbers do not add up to more than zero.

Then tell me exactly what is wrong with this logic:


1. The probability of all non-blue photons from the sun being reflected away from your eye is the intersection of the probability of each individual's photon's probability of being scattered away from your eye.

2. Each photon's chance of scattering away from your eye being independent from all others, the probability of the intersection of all scattering equals the product of all individual photon probabilities of scattering.

3. The product of any number of non-zero real terms is non-zero.

4. Each individual non-blue photon's probability of scattering away from your eye is non-zero.

5. Therefore the probability of all non-blue photons scattering away from your eye is non-zero.


If you can find fault with this statement, then I will rescind it and yield the argument to you.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby 0beron » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:50 pm

*skims the most recent posts after ignoring this thread for a bit*
Wait....are you two SERIOUSLY arguing about the logic/probabilities of the sun being blue?! I've heard of off-topic but this is crazy...give it a rest!
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Nnelg » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:12 pm

Oh, well originally I was only pursuing this issue to prove a point. I guess it's sort of past that at this point, but for some reason I now doubt if I ever could have gotten it through...


So I'm willing to give up trying if there isn't a breakthrough here soon. If nothing else, at least I can silently sit and shake my head at the irony of the situation.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby drachefly » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:31 pm

Nnelg is right, technically, but in terms of what one really ought to be thinking about... just give it a rest. 'Effectively impossible' is the relevant phrase here.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 039

Postby Oberon » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:56 am

Nnelg wrote:If you can find fault with this statement, then I will rescind it and yield the argument to you.
The problem is that when you invent your figures and call things which have a zero probability as being a non-zero probability, suddenly everything is possible. As I said before, any fool can arrive at any conclusion when they can invent the circumstances. But I suspect that you're just trolling me, so I'magonna let you go now. You keep looking for that blue Sol though. Maybe someday you'll find it.
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