Book 2 – Page 86

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Morni » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:26 am

Nnelg wrote:Also, Lady Artemis gets her first visual appearance, albeit posthumously. But the events surrounding her death are cast in a new light by this strip's revelations. I wonder which caused her arrow to be deflected: Fate or Jojo's "Trade"? Or both?


We also see Lady Artemis in this update.
http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -08-02.jpg
Morni
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:34 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Kalak » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:26 am

Nnelg wrote:Also, Lady Artemis gets her first visual appearance, albeit posthumously. But the events surrounding her death are cast in a new light by this strip's revelations. I wonder which caused her arrow to be deflected: Fate or Jojo's "Trade"? Or both?


What? She's here: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_Text_50 , in the background here: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_Text_51 , here: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_Text_52 , and here in two panels:http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_69 .
User avatar
Kalak
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:07 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby effataigus » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:33 am

A lot of really amazing art in this update.

Weird... Carnymancy sounds a bit like luckamancy. Of course my mind is drawn to the movie The Prestige (for those that have seen it). Numbers debt, good luck is taken not made, one dies so that another may live... someone is paying Sylvia's price.

Hah, I've never felt like I was thinking the same things at the same times as a character in this story quite so much as with Archer in this update... I loved the exchange in the last two panels.

Parson going into TMK is REALLY messing everything up. Especially if you, like me, believe that Ossomer turned (in a game mechanic sense) as a result of losing Wanda's bonus.
Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.
User avatar
effataigus
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby zilfallon » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:44 am

A very interesting update. Made me smile and think.
It seems quite possible that Jeftichew paid the price to Charlie.
My theory is:

Jeftichew asked Charlie for help. Charlie offered to link with Jeftichew so he could "unlock cheat codes" for Sylvia. (Remembering Kingworld, i think it is quite possible for a carnymancer to do this once linked with the Dish) In return, Charlie made Jeftichew owe him one request, which is one of the reasons Jeftichew is working against Parson for Charlie now.

enkidu wrote:Captain Archer's outfit reminds me of Archer in Fate/stay Night (manga/anime): https://www.google.com/search?q=fate+st ... 0&bih=1075


I think that's because Captain Archer is a reference to the Archer in Fate/stay Night.

Parson going into TMK is REALLY messing everything up.


Agreed. Also, I find Parson's "character development" annoying. It seems he's being too irrational.
Last edited by zilfallon on Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
rkyeun wrote:Roses are red.
Violets are blue.

Image
User avatar
zilfallon
 
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:47 am
Location: Magic Kingdom

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby effataigus » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:47 am

I have a very simple theory about the slowdown of updates...

Compare this:
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F063.jpg

to the current comic page. Open them both side by side if you can, and zoom till you can see all of both.

Today's updates are much denser... both in dialog and art detail! The finished products will be pretty epic, I'm guessing... if difficult to fit in a normal sized comic book :D
Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.
User avatar
effataigus
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby :-) » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:11 am

What the... In the update where Artimes fell It was clearly said that Sylvia was a former royal, also a few updates back i think it was mentioned she was queen beas decendant, and now she says that she was a lowly lvl 1 stabber for wich Bea never cared? Is it just me or is this highly contradictory? The only half plosible theory i can come up with about this is that chewy traded her for the true heir... but this still means shes not realy royal...
:-)
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:03 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Saladman » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:17 am

For the rules nerds this is kind of a big update, the firmest info yet on carnymancy. We've known some of what it does (disappearing things, making flashes and granting "wishes" to your detriment) but this gives us the principle. (Parson's "the magic of rigging the game" comment could have just been an in character dig at Jeftichew until this update. Kudos to people more trusting of in-character comments than myself.)

Berserkas wrote:Also, nerf carnymancers! Seriously, what'd he do, make Sylvia immortal? (I know she died, but still). This is way better than any Luckamancy boost. It's a wicked crazy buff - especially considering it seems to be permanent, seeing how long ago that must have happened. Essential near immortality and people failing to kill you all the time.


As has been pointed out, its not clear Jeftichew's spell did anything after the initial cast, or Sylvia's just nuts, or has some other Fate hanging on her. Or in the middle ground, it might be the carnymancy, but a rare and unpredictable side effect, not something carnymancers can do at will.

Too, the limitations are interesting. Jeftichew may well have been in the field to cast it (not spelled out, but he's checking on her in the wagon outside the closed gate). He had to keep casting every turn to fight off the "incapacitated units croak at end of turn" rule, and it took ten turns of that casting before she happened to pop up instead of linger another turn. I'm sure it is powerful, probably similar to having a luckamancer in some ways, but it doesn't follow its broken.

The "trade" is interesting too. My blind guess is some poor wounded but not incapped unit mysteriously croaked the first turn he cast on Sylvia. But the numbers debt theory is a good meta-level possibility given that's already a theme of the comic.

Separately, a caster "really liked" a 1st level stabber. That could be an interesting reunion someday now they're on opposite sides.
Saladman
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:46 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Saladman » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:36 am

:-) wrote:What the... In the update where Artimes fell It was clearly said that Sylvia was a former royal, also a few updates back i think it was mentioned she was queen beas decendant, and now she says that she was a lowly lvl 1 stabber for wich Bea never cared? Is it just me or is this highly contradictory? The only half plosible theory i can come up with about this is that chewy traded her for the true heir... but this still means shes not realy royal...


Book 2 text 52 wrote:...inside her there was a former Royal who had been there...


Good catch.

The counter argument is, Sylvia is a Lady, not a Princess. So I take this to mean a former Royalist or Royal sider, accustomed to doing her best for her queen. Book 2 text 8, Sylvia thinks of Bea as "her former queen," not her mother.

Or if you have caught something I've missed (no time now to go back through everything), we know casters can do promotions. Conceivably Jeftichew was given the order to promote a unit to warlord so he could cheat the rules and get a Royal, with their improved stats and faster advancement.
Saladman
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:46 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Whispri » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:55 am

I think we can now say for certain that 'Lady' is not a noble title in Erfworld.

Promoting Parson to Chief Warlord was a mistake, there's nothing he needed to do that could not have been done simply by providing Wanda with a battleplan. There, I've said it.

What does the space/time continuum have against Gobwin Knob anyway?
Whispri
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 642
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Kornaki » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:47 pm

drachefly wrote:Sylvia, in the flashback is wearing a zero. She, apparently, has been paid for.


That's just the unaroyal crest. It's on the wall hangings and the shoulders of the unit standing at the foot of the bed
Kornaki
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:44 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Kreistor » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:55 pm

Saladman wrote:
:-) wrote:What the... In the update where Artimes fell It was clearly said that Sylvia was a former royal, also a few updates back i think it was mentioned she was queen beas decendant, and now she says that she was a lowly lvl 1 stabber for wich Bea never cared? Is it just me or is this highly contradictory? The only half plosible theory i can come up with about this is that chewy traded her for the true heir... but this still means shes not realy royal...


Book 2 text 52 wrote:...inside her there was a former Royal who had been there...


Good catch.

The counter argument is, Sylvia is a Lady, not a Princess. So I take this to mean a former Royalist or Royal sider, accustomed to doing her best for her queen. Book 2 text 8, Sylvia thinks of Bea as "her former queen," not her mother.


In the royal line, the rules have changed more recently so that the daughters can retain royal titles after marriage, so the following info is more historical than modern.

"Lady" is universal for all women in British nobility and royalty. Any woman of any title may be called Lady, which merely replaces "Mrs." Just being called "Lady" does not restrict someone from being a royal, or even of common birth. A commoner that married a man of title would gain that title and be called "Lady".

On the other hand, "Lord" is a title, and is not universal. Baron, Duke, Count, etc. are the same. There is no universal for men. This is because titles are passed to the male, and females gain title from their husbands (or fathers, if unmarried). Where all daughters of a father will have title until they marry, no sons have title until the father dies, and only the oldest inherits. The oldest is referred to by the father's "secondary" title if his father has one, but it is a not a true title, only a borrowed one. For instance, the Duke of Wellington as also the Count and Baron Wellington. His oldest son would be introduced as the Baron Wellington, but this was not a true title, since his father was still alive.
http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_1 Here you can find all comic pages written as text for convenient quoting.

http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Erfworld_Mechanics The starting page for accessing all known Erfworld "rules".
User avatar
Kreistor
 
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: K-W, Ontario, Canada

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Lamech » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:00 pm

Whispri wrote:I think we can now say for certain that 'Lady' is not a noble title in Erfworld.

Promoting Parson to Chief Warlord was a mistake, there's nothing he needed to do that could not have been done simply by providing Wanda with a battleplan. There, I've said it.

Umm... yes? This should have been obvious since always. Parson should NOT be chief warlord and he never should be while they have units with better leadership. "Chief Warlord" should be decoupled from "second-in-command". Really Parson is really failing in his job as commander. He has become obsessed with "correcting" his mistakes or somesuch. To the detrimate of his soldiers in fact. It seems very likely at this point that he will lose nearly every soldier in the city if he continues this path. He could be directing the battle with a team of thinkamancers (and at least one masterclass lookamancer) instead of being personally there. In fact, he might even be better placed to direct the search to clear out the garrison.

Instead he has become rigid, and determined to "take equal risks". He has focused on it to the exclusion of doing his job. Its getting his people killed. This battle should be over. GK holds Slately "hostage" for all intents and purposes. They should be clearing the garrison. The archons should have been told to fight instead of hide. Wanda should have had orders. Sylvia should have orders.
Lamech
 
Posts: 1375
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby 0beron » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:03 pm

If Luckamancy is any model for Carnymancy, then I suspect JoJo traded a PERSON to get Sylvia back up. Specifically, he would have to rig someone else's incapacitation rules to always go badly. Who he picked, and what effect it had is anybody's guess cus I can't think of any targets.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 2945
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Kreistor » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:15 pm

0beron wrote:If Luckamancy is any model for Carnymancy, then I suspect JoJo traded a PERSON to get Sylvia back up. Specifically, he would have to rig someone else's incapacitation rules to always go badly. Who he picked, and what effect it had is anybody's guess cus I can't think of any targets.


Or just a scroll for a scroll.
http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_1 Here you can find all comic pages written as text for convenient quoting.

http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Erfworld_Mechanics The starting page for accessing all known Erfworld "rules".
User avatar
Kreistor
 
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: K-W, Ontario, Canada

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Nnelg » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:19 pm

Somehow I doubt the "trade" was that benign...



Well, by "visual appearance" I meant in the full comics as apposed to the text updates, but I guess I'd forgotten about that last one. My bad.


Lamech wrote:He could be directing the battle with a team of thinkamancers (and at least one masterclass lookamancer) instead of being personally there.

Well, he might of just not thought of that. I certainly didn't, and I'm not currently being force-fed stimuli from umpteen different angles.
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Ansan Gotti » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:21 pm

So help me out here, I thought I had a good handle on the mechanics, but now I'm not so sure.

1) Tower down should have won the battle... but for the fact that the King (or his double) escaped to airspace.
2) So where's the King now? Implication from a previous comic is that they're aground with Tramennis. So they moved from airspace to... garrison?
3) I thought GK holds the entire garrison? That was the implication from Sylvia on this page. Could the King and Tramennis be hiding in a portion of the garrison?

Confused, need help, thanks!
Ansan Gotti
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 3:45 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Aquillion » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:27 pm

vintermann wrote:Personally, I hope fate catches up with Lady Sylvia, she seems a bit too eager to tempt it. One thing I'm pretty sure of is that this plan to burn the garrison is at least as dangerous as the plan to take down the tower.
My reading of the last few lines is that she didn't actually intend to burn the garrison; she was just using that to spur the other guy into action.

Whispri wrote:Promoting Parson to Chief Warlord was a mistake, there's nothing he needed to do that could not have been done simply by providing Wanda with a battleplan. There, I've said it.
It was necessary to spur him into action and make people listen to him. Remember, Stanley is uncertain about him; Wanda believes in Fate, not him. Jack and Sylvia believe in him but ultimately aren't the ones making decisions.

Maggie putting Parson in charge wasn't about mechanical effect; it was because she needed to force Parson to take charge and to put Stanley in a position where he would follow Parson's lead (which he has to do now even when her Suggestion wore off, because if he didn't let Parson do his thing, he'd be admitting that he made a mistake by appointing him.)

The really stupid decision was Wanda entering the portal. There was no reason for her to do that. Jack, maybe (he was nearly out of juice anyway, there was no reason for him not to retreat all the way to Gobwin Knob), but Wanda was mechanically vital in Jetstone for all sorts of reasons, and there wasn't any real tactical benefit to having her meeting with Parson when Jack was going to do so already. All else aside, there's a ton of dead units she could be Decrypting right now if she weren't faffing around uselessly in the portal park
Last edited by Aquillion on Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aquillion
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 4:45 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Nnelg » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:31 pm

Ansan Gotti wrote:So help me out here, I thought I had a good handle on the mechanics, but now I'm not so sure.

1) Tower down should have won the battle... but for the fact that the King (or his double) escaped to airspace.
2) So where's the King now? Implication from a previous comic is that they're aground with Tramennis. So they moved from airspace to... garrison?
3) I thought GK holds the entire garrison? That was the implication from Sylvia on this page. Could the King and Tramennis be hiding in a portion of the garrison?

Confused, need help, thanks!
1) Right.

2) Probably out of the city. Recovering Tramennis was the last thing on the list of things to do before escaping.

3) There's lots of hidey-holes in Spacerock's garrison. It's probably not the King though, because now that he's got a clear airspace and enough money to make Tramennis heir there's little reason to stick around anymore.
"The Wizard is Charlie!"
User avatar
Nnelg
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:40 pm
Location: Internets the World of Webs

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby mortissimus » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:42 pm

Saladman wrote:Conceivably Jeftichew was given the order to promote a unit to warlord so he could cheat the rules and get a Royal, with their improved stats and faster advancement.


It would be cool if Carnamancy has such a cheat. With reasonable cost, it is not über powerful, but it upsets the social order which is always fun.
mortissimus
 
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:04 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 86

Postby Ansan Gotti » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:54 pm

Nnelg wrote:
Ansan Gotti wrote:So help me out here, I thought I had a good handle on the mechanics, but now I'm not so sure.

1) Tower down should have won the battle... but for the fact that the King (or his double) escaped to airspace.
2) So where's the King now? Implication from a previous comic is that they're aground with Tramennis. So they moved from airspace to... garrison?
3) I thought GK holds the entire garrison? That was the implication from Sylvia on this page. Could the King and Tramennis be hiding in a portion of the garrison?

Confused, need help, thanks!
1) Right.

2) Probably out of the city. Recovering Tramennis was the last thing on the list of things to do before escaping.

3) There's lots of hidey-holes in Spacerock's garrison. It's probably not the King though, because now that he's got a clear airspace and enough money to make Tramennis heir there's little reason to stick around anymore.


Ahh, I think that makes sense, they grabbed Tramennis and bailed (maybe to a nearby Jetstone city) after clearing out the airspace. And that there are a few hiding units still in the Garrison (and we saw that scout units can indeed hide). In fact, perhaps even the allied Transylvito bat that we've seen on screen would be enough to prevent the garrison from falling?

Or... it might be cool if the King and Tramennis are still hiding in a portion of the garrison, too. Would set up a future, more imminent confrontation.
Ansan Gotti
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 3:45 am

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Keighvin1 and 4 guests