Book 2 – Page 87

[bladestorm]

As for onsite CWL, Wanda would have been an excellent choice at the time he made that option available.
[...]
Or promote the last Archon, just to muck with how they do not know how to handle a CWL.
[...]
Or have Isaac go through the portal, hire him on the spot, promote him to CWL
[...]
Or to get really out there, send Jojo through the portal, hire and promote him

None of those units have any canon examples of being able to be promoted to CWL. The only one with any slight canon support might be the archon, which hypothetically could be promoted to warlord and then to CWL. With Tarfu being a warlord for the woodsy elves, it's possible that an archon could also be a warlord or CWL. But, were that true, why would Charlie rely upon archons with the leadership special and have no CWL? So I'm going to guess that no, archons cannot be warlords or a CWL.

Because Charlie is paranoid and doesn't want anyone on his side thinking for themselves. Charlie also has no casters. Only Archons who are supremely loyal to him, and some guard units of questionable sentience.

Also at the time, Ossomer would have been a prime candidate. That would have sucked though if he turned as CWL. First Ansom, then Ossomer.

Ansom turned? Ansom was captured by Jillian, who intends to turn him. But I don't think she's even home at FAQ yet. I suppose her turnamancer could attempt it in the field, but right now she's out of juice so that'd have to wait for the Jetstone turn to end, the GK turn to end, and then any other interested parties (since Charlie and Haggar have already gone, and I'm guessing that TV is allied with Jetstone and is going now but only has a bat present).[/quote]
No, Ansom didn't turn. He also isn't CWL any more. The progression was sons of Jetstone promoted to CWL and then lost to the side for whatever reason, though due to the structure of that sentence, I can see how it could be interpretted that Ansom turned.

Sylvia is an obvious options. She would most vigourously carry out Parson's commands. But that brings up questions about how well a decrypted could serve as CWL, or if there is some mechanic preventing that (such as Loyalty to Wanda clashing with Duty towards Side).

Are you reading this comic? Ansom, the very first decrypted, was CWL for GK until he was captured by Jillian. Then Ossomer, another decrypted, was promoted. There's no reason except for the new revelation that the decrypted can turn to prevent Sylvia from being made CWL. And Ossomer had a lot of pressures on him (that whole "attacking my father and former side" and "engaging in conversation with said father") that Sylvia does not.[/quote]
Not can a decrypted be a CWL, but how well is that going to work in the long run. It's possible, as you example of Ansom has shown, but he's not CWL now, and I don't recall a situation where there was any amount of conflict between what Wanda wanted and what Stanely wanted where he would have to decide whose orders he would follow. The Archons established that Wanda is not under any Loyalty spell to Stanley, so that could be where the breakdown begins. This also ties in with the decrypted Dwagons -- Are they going to be more loyal to the Hammer or the Pliers?

[DIBesq]

Real king dead? Wouldn't Trem have known immediately when he awoke? Was duplicate so good that he serves in ALL respects as the king? Doesn't even know he is the duplicate?

JS broke? How fast can/did Charlie pay whopping big bounties? Was Trem already promoted to heir?

Ever notice how the towers look like pen nibs? Charlie is the AUTHOR?

[Salem]

It was rushed and such because people were idiots to think it was the double that had fallen, so Rob was shutting them up. The "doubling me THIS way" quote was a slightly awkward attempt by Rob to confirm this, but people took that as the opposite way it was intended, so now he had to make it 100% clear so nobody would keep doubting.

I'd personally disagree with this bit of speculation. I've always thought Rob was a nice person, so I doubt this mirrors his logic.

[MonteCristo]

Not at all. Jetstone not only had plenty of forces left. Tremmanis even believe that with their forces they could potentially take on GK's forces, however with decryption to replenish the GK forces with jetstone's fallen, it might be too risky of a fight if it were to end as a net gain for GK. Its still a fairly even fight, though one that may lean in GK's favor when they have both wanda and a CW. Which is why parson sees it important for them to have a CW on the scene, without that bonus the battle might lean in favor of jetstone, or atleast has the possible outcome of them winning but with heavy losses. This battle is too close for them to pass up on any big multipliers

The risk to Jetstone is much greater because if they commit to trying to actually hold the city, then they could, potentially, have their whole side ended. Sylvia just pointed out that if GK captures the garrison, then it would be GK's turn and the whole of Jetstone's force are sitting ducks in the airspace, with a ruler duplicate that will last until... when, exactly? If Tram isn't promoted to heir, then the side ends when that dupe does. If Tram is promoted to heir and then becomes ruler, if he gets croaked, the side ends. If, however, Jetstone bugs out, promotes Tram to heir, they can establish one of their other cities as a capital and regroup/rebuild.

And even if Jetstone holds Spacerock and wins this battle, they'll be facing another entire army in just a few turns, with no tower, a weakened garrison, AND almost no troops left.

The smart move here is to bug out of Spacerock and re-consolidate elsewhere. The win condition for Jetstone here is to leave the battlespace with their side in tact. Doing anything else would be stupidly risky and probably pointless.

Actually they can and were planning on doing both. Once the ruler/heir is out of the city, the rest of their forces can stay behind and try to hold the city. This was trem's plan, and its a plan that could still work if trem and Slately switch places; Trem as heir leaves the city while Slately stays behind to fight for the city. However, whether or not they would attempt the fight would hinge on strategic assessment; namely, are they sure they can win or could they atleast make sure the battle is a net loss of GK... Trem was aware of the danger of decryption and knew that if they fought that not only could they loose, but the battle might end with a net gain for GK's troops; hence why he considered ceding the city.

And what army are you referring too that they would face in a few turns. Charlie took care of haggar and Trem already mopped up all of GK's ground troops that were waiting at the bridge.

Again, battle not the war
In regards to the battle, Trem has said that jetstone had better numbers and leadership and that could give them the edge, but admits with decryption GK may hold the edge

In regards to the war, the page you linked has Trem saying that GK COULD win the war without decyption; "could" as in meaning "possibly". He was by no means claiming GK's victory was certain and that they held a clear upperhand

War, not battle.

Trem said "Eventually", as in "given a few turns time",
and "crush the coalition", as in "GK could finally win the war".

And all that even if JS would win the battle, croak Wanda, and get the 'plier.

So, JS is not strong enough to beat GK, and Trem makes his case to go for diplomacy and bargaining.

Again, the keyword is "could"
That would alone speaks of possibilities not of certainties. He is acknowledge that their is reasonable CHANCE that GK can still win and thus it may not be worth the risk to keep fighting them and thus worth it to bargain. He was by no means saying that GK could not be beaten.
Also "eventually" does not mean a few turns as it can refer to any amount of time.

Because Charlie is paranoid and doesn't want anyone on his side thinking for themselves. Charlie also has no casters. Only Archons who are supremely loyal to him, and some guard units of questionable sentience.

The reason charlie has no casters is because he never pops warlords. You can't get a caster without popping warlords

This is a refreshing nail in the coffin of the whole "units auto-disband if they go against their side". We've got mancers everywhere leading their sides to their doom in the name of prophecies. No wonder Stanley has become paranoid.

[/quote]
No exactly. Remember a unit can go against their orders if they feel its within the best interest of the side; as such it stands to reason that a unit is able to do something that isn't in their side's best interests o long as the unit is able to rationalize it is in the sides interests. In maggie's case, while she primarily wanted Parson as CW for the psoinic war, she had the duel rationalization that making Parson CW of GK was in GK's best interest

[0beron]

It was rushed and such because people were idiots to think it was the double that had fallen, so Rob was shutting them up.

I'd personally disagree with this bit of speculation. I've always thought Rob was a nice person, so I doubt this mirrors his logic.

Oh I didn't mean "shut up" in a nasty way. I mean he probably noticed that people still thought the original king was alive, so he realized he needed to make it 100% crystal clear.

[MarbitChow]

Oh I didn't mean "shut up" in a nasty way. I mean he probably noticed that people still thought the original king was alive, so he realized he needed to make it 100% crystal clear.

I think its more that Rob needed to make sure that not only was it clear that Stately was dead, but that Charlie (who intercepted the bat's thinkamancy) is also well aware of it.

This allows Charlie to go "Of course I'll pay the bounty. Just deliver the archon to X,Y and you'll receive payment. Oh, you can't reach that for 2 turns, and you need the money this turn? Well, let's make a deal... sign here, please..."

[Aquillion]

As for onsite CWL, Wanda would have been an excellent choice at the time he made that option available. That would have been CWL bonus plus artifact bonus plus whatever other bonus they get for the crokamancer/decrypted status. Even light infantry would be monstrous with her there. Doombats acted like Heavy Infantry in Ceasar's stack, and he didn't have the artifact multiplier, uncroaked/decrypted/croakamcer bonus, and doombats can't dancefight that I know of. That may put a light infantry or scout on comparable terms as a siege engine. She may as well just make her own side at that point and form an Alliance with GK.

Although it hasn't been explicitly stated, I'm pretty sure a Chief Warlord Bonus is based on your normal Warlord bonus (a multiplier or somesuch.) Wanda, as a caster, has no normal Warlord Bonus, and it's not clear that her special bonus for Uncroaked / Decrypted would count. At least, her name wasn't mentioned by Parson when he was going over options, and he probably would have thought of that.

Also: Parson thinks she's insane.

[coyotenose]

Can't... stop... laughing... actually made... the neighbor's dogs... start howling...

[0beron]

I think its more that Rob needed to make sure that not only was it clear that Stately was dead, but that Charlie (who intercepted the bat's thinkamancy) is also well aware of it.
This allows Charlie to go "Of course I'll pay the bounty. Just deliver the archon to X,Y and you'll receive payment. Oh, you can't reach that for 2 turns, and you need the money this turn? Well, let's make a deal... sign here, please..."

Agreed hahaha.

[Kreistor]

Parson will never level up unless he gets out into it. So from that perspective, he should be there.

But he isn't familiar with having to command on the fly. He did it, but he doesn't know what he did in tBfGK. In the thick of it, some people choke on command. The chaos overwhelms them, and they can't problem solve.

But for others, the heat of battle causes them to come up with ideas they could never have without the stress. I know you'll mock paintball, but I've performed my best strategies and tactics on the fly with paint ripping past my head. You see the spot you need to be in, or know who can deal with the problem you're facing. You can see that the undefeatable enemy has a glaring weakness, because you are right there, and it's not in a book anymore.

Parson is going to battle without a plan, but when he gets there, you will see brilliance.

[bladestorm]

Oops, I forgot one reply I was going to make:
[spoiler]

The problem now is, without the decrypted Archons they had, GK can no longer take the chance of Stanley leaving the capital to hunt them. This is a two-fold problem. First, their military power, as well as their relay mount system, is going to take a major hit. Second, Stanley's major means of stress relief at this point in the story has been dwagon hunting, and we've all seen what happens when Stanley gets stressed.

Well, Stanley probably hasn't been able to go dwagon-hunting for a while already, unless there were archons left behind at GK that we don't know about. But then again, Stanley might have seen this as a temporary state of affairs, and the fact that he won't be getting his archons back after the Battle of Spacerock might hit him hard. Hm...

I wonder... Maybe Stanley will decide to appoint an heir so that he can keep going out without risking the entire side. And while I can't imagine him popping one... I can see him appointing a secret heir.

There's one unit on his side that he could appoint without anyone knowing. Perhaps he already has...

So appoint Vurp as Heir Designate, since he is the sole remaining member of the Knights in Stanley's Service and lone hobgoblin survivor of tBfGK. Seems a similar setup to how Stanley had it handed to him. Then Stanley goes after Charlescomm to croak some more Archons for Wanda to Decrypt so Stanley can go back to hunting dwagons.

[Salem]

Parson will never level up unless he gets out into it. So from that perspective, he should be there.

But he isn't familiar with having to command on the fly. He did it, but he doesn't know what he did in tBfGK. In the thick of it, some people choke on command. The chaos overwhelms them, and they can't problem solve.

But for others, the heat of battle causes them to come up with ideas they could never have without the stress. I know you'll mock paintball, but I've performed my best strategies and tactics on the fly with paint ripping past my head. You see the spot you need to be in, or know who can deal with the problem you're facing. You can see that the undefeatable enemy has a glaring weakness, because you are right there, and it's not in a book anymore.

Parson is going to battle without a plan, but when he gets there, you will see brilliance.

Parson has already shown a GREAT mindset for a general. He practices planning constantly, and just puts options on the table. Rarely does he rely on plans. Sounds like Mr. Eisenhower would approve. Jack and Parson are a deadly combo.

[Salem]

Parson will never level up unless he gets out into it# So from that perspective, he should be there#

But he isn't familiar with having to command on the fly# He did it, but he doesn't know what he did in tBfGK# In the thick of it, some people choke on command# The chaos overwhelms them, and they can't problem solve#

But for others, the heat of battle causes them to come up with ideas they could never have without the stress# I know you'll mock paintball, but I've performed my best strategies and tactics on the fly with paint ripping past my head# You see the spot you need to be in, or know who can deal with the problem you're facing# You can see that the undefeatable enemy has a glaring weakness, because you are right there, and it's not in a book anymore#

Parson is going to battle without a plan, but when he gets there, you will see brilliance##/quote#
Parson has already shown a GREAT mindset for a general# He practices planning constantly, and just puts options on the table# Rarely does he rely on plans# Sounds like Mr# Eisenhower would approve# Jack and Parson are a deadly combo##/quote#


#quote="0beron"##quote="Salem"#[quote="0beron"]It was rushed and such because people were idiots to think it was the double that had fallen, so Rob was shutting them up.

I'd personally disagree with this bit of speculation. I've always thought Rob was a nice person, so I doubt this mirrors his logic.

Oh I didn't mean "shut up" in a nasty way. I mean he probably noticed that people still thought the original king was alive, so he realized he needed to make it 100% crystal clear.[/quote]

Oh, I am trying not to sound sarcastic as I say this but I don't mean to. I understand the idea that as a writer there is a point he wants confusion about the fate of the king, a point where there are subtle hints about his fate, a point laced with metaphor and not so subtle hints. I personally thought it would come in a rather poignant moment of loss with his son. We'll probably still get that moment, but for anyone thinking that this does feel premature. It's quite possible in the next few panels there will be things that require a knowledge that the king is dead.

What I was getting to though was that I don't think Rob would think of his fans, who are smart enough to adore his work, as idiots, that feels a bit harsh just because they're betting on the long shot. Plenty of stories have played the pea swap, and a lot of people are emotionally vested in Slately, I like the little guy myself.

[CNagy]

Again, the keyword is "could"
That would alone speaks of possibilities not of certainties. He is acknowledge that their is reasonable CHANCE that GK can still win and thus it may not be worth the risk to keep fighting them and thus worth it to bargain. He was by no means saying that GK could not be beaten.
Also "eventually" does not mean a few turns as it can refer to any amount of time.

Just a nitpick on the accuracy of language. Could is only very weakly used to refer to possibilities, and only then in context. In this case, the context is "crush the coalition," which is not merely defeating the coalition. Because of this turn of phrase and the acknowledgement of Gobwin Knob as a "terribly powerful side" despite the impending loss of Wanda and the 'pliers then--assuming accurate language is used--the meaning is most likely this: "it would still be within Gobwin Knob's ability to eventually crush the coalition." If that outcome were in any significant doubt, the word most accurately used would be "might," not "could." The implication is that without decryption, taking that course of action would be too costly to rationally consider--but that they could still do it. That it might require a long, grinding campaign and the costs might be exceeding high, but that Gobwin Knob would still be an existential threat.

Now there is still the possibility that Trem meant it in the way that you might say "hey, you could win the lottery," but the language around it supports a more certainty-of-results use of the word.

[Lamech]

As for onsite CWL, Wanda would have been an excellent choice at the time he made that option available. That would have been CWL bonus plus artifact bonus plus whatever other bonus they get for the crokamancer/decrypted status. Even light infantry would be monstrous with her there. Doombats acted like Heavy Infantry in Ceasar's stack, and he didn't have the artifact multiplier, uncroaked/decrypted/croakamcer bonus, and doombats can't dancefight that I know of. That may put a light infantry or scout on comparable terms as a siege engine. She may as well just make her own side at that point and form an Alliance with GK.

Although it hasn't been explicitly stated, I'm pretty sure a Chief Warlord Bonus is based on your normal Warlord bonus (a multiplier or somesuch.) Wanda, as a caster, has no normal Warlord Bonus, and it's not clear that her special bonus for Uncroaked / Decrypted would count. At least, her name wasn't mentioned by Parson when he was going over options, and he probably would have thought of that.

Also: Parson thinks she's insane.

I think Wanda also gives out a chief bonus. She's chief caster I think that's an official "game" mechanical title. However it only applies to uncroaked or decrypted if I'm right. We do know from summer updates to decrypted she gives a 1 to all on her side, a 4 to all in her hex, and 8 to her stack. Bringing Parson along add a chief warlord bonus, but it will likely be pitiful since he threw the sword of ruthlessness away.

I think Parson is just ranting against Erfworld/War right now, not making good tactical choices. Same thing as throwing the sword away. That was a terrible idea. It should have been stashed until needed (or given to Ansom to pull out in battle. That would have given Ansom a sickening level of leadership presumably). He got the character development idiot ball grafted onto him.

[Kreistor]

I think its more that Rob needed to make sure that not only was it clear that Stately was dead, but that Charlie (who intercepted the bat's thinkamancy) is also well aware of it.
This allows Charlie to go "Of course I'll pay the bounty. Just deliver the archon to X,Y and you'll receive payment. Oh, you can't reach that for 2 turns, and you need the money this turn? Well, let's make a deal... sign here, please..."

Agreed hahaha.

Just a point: Slately's double can't make deals because he isn't King.

[0beron]

Just a point: Slately's double can't make deals because he isn't King.

If he wasn't functionally King, then the Side would be dead right now. He's not the same as the original, but he can play the part well enough to satisfy the mechanics for as long as he remains.
Also, we've seen just ordinary command units accept deals before, including Trem while he was acting as a diplomat.

[jkosta]

Just a point: Slately's double can't make deals because he isn't King.

Just like Ansom couldn't sign the deal with Charlie while lying on the ground at Gobwin Knob with Wanda bearin--

Wait. Yes he could.

[Lamech]

Just a point: Slately's double can't make deals because he isn't King.

Just like Ansom couldn't sign the deal with Charlie while lying on the ground at Gobwin Knob with Wanda bearin--

Yeah, that was really lame. He got ripped to pieces while waiting on Slately. Then Wanda got the pliers and the coalition was defeated in one fell swoop. So anti-climatic, guy goes up to save the day, and instead the coalition just gets swatted.

[Kreistor]

Just a point: Slately's double can't make deals because he isn't King.

If he wasn't functionally King, then the Side would be dead right now. He's not the same as the original, but he can play the part well enough to satisfy the mechanics for as long as he remains.
Also, we've seen just ordinary command units accept deals before, including Trem while he was acting as a diplomat.

As I've pointed out before, there is the chance that the double is actually the new King, and permanent. There are spells in some game systems that work that way. It may only be unfamiliarity with Dittomancy that makes them think the double isn't "real" or will disappear end of turn/day. Btu I'm not going to hide behind that possibility, I'm only pointing out it still remains.

King Clonely is the glue holding its Side together, yes. But contracts seem to have environmental aspects, where the agreement cannot be broken. We dont know the details of the contract sub-rules so I don't think anyone can assume that Charlie can get what MarbitChow thinks. Our own legal system would void such a contract based on Charlie and Clonely having differing expectations from the contract, or from the contract being too one sided. I'm not beyond the idea that the contract sub-rules prevent such abuses. So, in other words, Charlie may be unable to abuse this loophole with a contract, because the contract rules may prohibit a deluded cretion like Clonely from making a binding deal, simply because he is inherently a loophole.