Book 2 – Page 88

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby Whispri » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:27 am

kilercroc wrote:When does Jetstone disband at this point? They've lost their real king, have no heir and (though I find it a little weird that the double counts as a ruler) the fake king they do have is being powered by limited juice. Any decisions their side makes from now on has to be with the inevitability of total defeat in mind.

At the end of their Turn or when the Garrison falls I'd say. Although... there is Ansom to consider. He was heir of Jetstone, that might change things. Of course, he is in chains at the mo', that itself would be a problem.
Whispri
YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby vintermann » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:11 am

Arky wrote:I imagine Charlie is calling to make sure this deal gets done before Jetstone are wiped, seeing as DoppleSlately was taking so long to get around to it.


Charlie called because he's just now puzzled out that the king is a clone. If you look at the previous page, you'll notice Bunny is very careful not saying outright what has happened(Don isn't speaking in thinkagrams, so Charlie only hears one side of the conversation), but Charlie isn't stupid.

Jetstone isn't doomed by any means. Charlie will pay the promised bounty, he'll probably even advance the part for the captured archon (seeing as the planned promotion of Tramennis is essential to getting his hands on her). Slately might be shocked at discovering he's dead, but after all, he went into the fight expecting to die. He'll quickly accept his fate and go out with a bang (leading the charge into the atrium instead of Tramennis. Hopefully dusting Sylvia in the process :twisted: Do not tempt the titans!).

The reason that archon spilled the beans with her gloating, is that she doesn't know about Charlie's bounty or the plan to promote Tramennis. She assumes the side will die with the double and there's nothing they can do about it.
User avatar
vintermann
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 5:01 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:10 am

Oberon wrote:As much as I think it's wonderful that Cubbins survived, I'm not sure I understand Tremms statement that "he is the only thread by which Jetstone hangs." After all, he is incapacitated and out of juice.


My reading of that line was that it's not Cubbins' (temporarily diminished) awesomeness that holds Jetstone free. It's simply the fact that he's a Jetstone unit, hidden, and thus still technically claiming an important patch of the capital. If Cubbins weren't there, the Garrison and Jetstone would fall.

vintermann wrote:Slately might be shocked at discovering he's dead, but after all, he went into the fight expecting to die. He'll quickly accept his fate and go out with a bang (leading the charge into the atrium instead of Tramennis. Hopefully dusting Sylvia in the process :twisted: Do not tempt the titans!).


No way, Sylvia can't die even if she's dusted. (And if there wasn't a 30 second advertisement before that clip I'm linking to, someone might actually watch it and see how it's pertinent to the topic of Sylvia's supposed immortality.)

vintermann wrote:The reason that archon spilled the beans with her gloating, is that she doesn't know about Charlie's bounty or the plan to promote Tramennis. She assumes the side will die with the double and there's nothing they can do about it.


Actually, she did know. It was mentioned, in her presence, in this very page. But probably she wasn't paying attention.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
User avatar
BLANDCorporatio
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
Tool + YOTD Supporter!
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:24 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby Zeku » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:43 am

So Cubbins is definitely a "he?" S...he is a little metro, a little tender, but I wasn't sure if it had been confirmed.

Doubles can definitely do everything, otherwise the side wouldn't still exist. It's even self-aware. This would be a major philosophical discussion, if this subject hadn't been covered 1000s of times already, by nearly every other type of fiction. (What happens when you fall asleep? Is it really you that wakes up in the morning? What does it mean to continue being the same person? Aren't you just a collection of neurons in a constant state of change? What happens to the people in the time line that no longer exists? What happens to the guy on the teleporter entrance?)
Zeku
 
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:35 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby M.A.D » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:46 am

So, of they don't get Cubbins and heal him by the end of this turn, he'll croak, and the Garrison will be free to claim next turn. Though, imo, as long they could get one commander unit or above back to the garrison, they should still technically be holding it, aren't they?
M.A.D
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:10 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby onlyme » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:01 am

M.A.D wrote:So, of they don't get Cubbins and heal him by the end of this turn, he'll croak, and the Garrison will be free to claim next turn. Though, imo, as long they could get one commander unit or above back to the garrison, they should still technically be holding it, aren't they?


I'd assume every unit would suffice. It's just that non-commanders can only wait for something to happen while commanders can actually do something (like changing places, always hiding where someone already searched and so on).
onlyme
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:32 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby onlyme » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:13 am

Looking at this comic I start to fear Rob is reading this dicussions and considering what is said here, and I must say that frightens me. Nothing good ever came from an author listening to how people interpret their work. Heck, authors both being good and knowing why they are good are already a absolute minority (best never listen to what authors or directors say what something is supposed to mean, they hardly know the good stuff they put in things), and authors also knowing which comments are sensible and which are not is too unlikely to bet on this.

There will always be someone that does not get some detail or does not undestand something. But too much explicitness really kills it for almost everyone. And currently it seems to really go that road....
onlyme
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:32 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:25 am

onlyme wrote:Looking at this comic I start to fear Rob is reading this dicussions and considering what is said here, and I must say that frightens me.
I don't think this particular instance is one in which the death of Slately is being made clear to the audience. I'm reading it more that it's being made clear to everyone BUT Slately. First the audience (and Lloyd), then more and more people until Slately's double finally gets the reveal. Everyone but Slately knows what's going on by the time he figures it out, which I feel makes the reveal more powerful - like a father-figure being told he's terminal after the rest of the family already knows.
User avatar
MarbitChow
 
Posts: 2510
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:41 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby 0beron » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:05 am

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!
Just like I always said, Cubbins IS too cute to croak!!!!! *does a dance all around the office, regardless of how many people look at me funny*
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3169
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby TheMutant » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:16 am

I'm not getting re-attached to Cubbins just yet. :P He's in a dangerous position, and just because others have gotten out of that position before doesn't mean he will.

Also aww, poor Trem's reaction and dupe!Slately's at the end. :C

Great page as always!
Join the Erflings fanart gallery on DeviantArt!

Sixty wrote:Obviously the mystery caster has no particular feelings one way or the other about Parson, he simply heard "cue the Benny Hill music" and gave chase, compelled to do so by forces outside his control.
User avatar
TheMutant
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Washington State

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby 0beron » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:25 am

TheMutant wrote:I'm not getting re-attached to Cubbins just yet. :P He's in a dangerous position, and just because others have gotten out of that position before doesn't mean he will.

This is true, but it's still awesome to see him be technically alive :)
That, and the fact that even if croaked now, Wanda will decrypt him, which is an alternative I'm willing to accept :p If he had croaked instantly upon falling, it would have been possible Wanda would take the city and the turn would end before they discovered his corpse.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3169
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby drachefly » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:35 am

A - I am very pleased that you're holding to schedule so well. The advance notification that you would be a touch late and then catch up was very good.

B - As awesome as it will end up for story purposes - captured Archon, can't you just keep your mouth shut? Of course, it won't make a difference. Slately's plan was the right thing to do with him being a double anyway. Nearly. Now they kind of want to retrieve that body.
User avatar
drachefly
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 1644
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:36 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby Keldaria » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:42 am

0beron wrote:
TheMutant wrote:I'm not getting re-attached to Cubbins just yet. :P He's in a dangerous position, and just because others have gotten out of that position before doesn't mean he will.

This is true, but it's still awesome to see him be technically alive :)
That, and the fact that even if croaked now, Wanda will decrypt him, which is an alternative I'm willing to accept :p If he had croaked instantly upon falling, it would have been possible Wanda would take the city and the turn would end before they discovered his corpse.


Wanda is in the Magic Kingdom, and the Tower is down making the portal shut. There will be no uncroaking of anymore units this turn.

Which is a shame, I was really hoping to see what kind of implications or utter rule abuse that could be caused by 1 side uncroaking a Ruler of another. I mean its obvious that Wanda can uncroak when its not their turn, and also obvious that a side doesn't just poof at the very second a ruler gets croaked but rather when they end their turn, so what honestly would happen if you uncroaked a ruler before the side disbanded? Would they instantly turn back to their own side based upon a high sense of duty that effects them in a similar way that ossomar turned back once that duty was reminded to him? or would that entire side fall sway to a "Puppet" government controlled by wanda and in turn by stanleys side?... Or would they simply all disband anyways as their ruler no longer part of their side the same as if they had croaked?

Also speaking on the Charlie front, I'd have to say that capture of the arcon is largely irrelevant to his purposes now. The biggest reason he wanted to capture one was to see the implications of if they could still be turned and such, ossomar already drove the nail into that coffin, now for charlie its simply a matter of potentially regaining one of his toys like the bounties offered for the safe release of his current arcons if they were captured. Soo for him its Do I buy one of my Pawns back or do I leverage an entire side to my will? This is charlie, he will probably help the jetstones out but it will be on his terms, not theirs.
User avatar
Keldaria
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 10:57 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby Kreistor » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:45 am

onlyme wrote:Looking at this comic I start to fear Rob is reading this dicussions and considering what is said here, and I must say that frightens me. Nothing good ever came from an author listening to how people interpret their work.


Rob made it clear that he does read and does take suggestions. Sylvia lives because of fan obsession with "Red". During the days of the Wiki, Rob wanted people making up their own Sides and ideas, which he would consider for inclusion. That went mostly nowhere, but that's what he wanted.

So, in short, yes, he does, and no, he doesn't think it's a bad thing the way you do.

On a more general note:

We have a better description of Dittomancy, so thank you, Rob.

Some are wondering why with Slately dead, the Side continues. There are two uses for Dittomancy-created clones. TO fool the enemy, and to fool your own Side. His own Side need to be fooled by the spell, so the spell must duplicate him enough that his orders would be followed. Via that loophole, the Side has a tenuous hold.

Whether Clonely can order Trem to be heir is another question.

And Charlie's deal was with SLately, not Clonely, so Charlie isn't beholden to the original deal. Charlie may be on the line to negotiate the deal. (But I expect him to wind up giving Clonely enough for Trem to be heir, even if Charlie does negotiate less. Charlie's goal is survival, and screwing Jetstone doesn't achieve that.)
http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_1 Here you can find all comic pages written as text for convenient quoting.

http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Erfworld_Mechanics The starting page for accessing all known Erfworld "rules".
User avatar
Kreistor
 
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: K-W, Ontario, Canada

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby 0beron » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:46 am

Keldaria wrote:Wanda is in the Magic Kingdom, and the Tower is down making the portal shut.

The Portal is NOT shut. This would have been the case is the Tower falling had croaked the King, but since he flew away and survived, the Tower falling does not by itself close the Portal.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3169
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby Morni » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:51 am

0beron wrote:
Keldaria wrote:Wanda is in the Magic Kingdom, and the Tower is down making the portal shut.

The Portal is NOT shut. This would have been the case is the Tower falling had croaked the King, but since he flew away and survived, the Tower falling does not by itself close the Portal.


I logged one to say the same thing, so i'll say the same thing in different words :)

From what we can understand. The portal are assign to a capital, in the dungeon.

every city can have a tower, only the capital can have a portal.

and yes it was assume that the tower falling would close the portal, because it would also croak the ruler.
Morni
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:34 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby bladestorm » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:40 am

Charlie will prolly totally screw Jetstone in the long run with a deal to save the side right now. Something like 10% of Jetstone's profits per turn paid directly to Charlescomm. It's minorly trivial one turn at a time, but it fills Charlie's treasury and maintains his upkeep of his Archon fleet. Several 'contracts' or 'long-term repayment plans', possibly with interest applied, would have Charlescomm set for a very long time. I wouldn't be surprised if Charlie has Jillian set up on an loan to rebuild Faq, with 12 turn no interest or payments, then a hefty interest rate is applied so that her per-turn payments only manage to pay off part of the interest.

Next comic should give us some resolution in MK, then back to Jetstone. Book 1 went to 150 pages, so we still have plenty of ground to cover in this book. We still need to go over the Ansom/Jillian thing (especially if Ansom finds out Jillian and Vinny have been hooking up), issues at Faq, Charlie's deal with Jetstone, what Stanley is doing unsupervised at GK, events at TV, and getting Parson out of MK. By comparison, page 87 in book 1 was when Parson first made contact with Charlie in thinkspace, and the convo played out in page 88. If Book 2 follows the same pattern, things are going to pick up very quickly from here on out.
bladestorm
 
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 10:11 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby effataigus » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:46 am

drachefly wrote:A - I am very pleased that you're holding to schedule so well. The advance notification that you would be a touch late and then catch up was very good.

Seconded! And beautiful art once again.
0beron wrote:
TheMutant wrote:I'm not getting re-attached to Cubbins just yet. :P He's in a dangerous position, and just because others have gotten out of that position before doesn't mean he will.

This is true, but it's still awesome to see him be technically alive :)

I wouldn't stress... I think homeslice has plot armor now. You don't have someone survive something so improbably after a dramatic death sequence if you don't have plans for him later on. Any TKO'd warlord in rubble could fulfill his current job of being a not-quite-dead body out of sight.

I'm pretty sure Clonely can promote Tram, so I am curious why the archon is claiming to have won.
Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.
User avatar
effataigus
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby 0beron » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:53 am

effataigus wrote:Also, I'm pretty sure Clonely can promote Tram, though I am curious why the archon is claiming to have won.

I agree, we are shown in this update that he has the Natural Thinkamancy of a Ruler, so this further confirms that he is functionally the King for all mechanic purposes.
As for the Archon, I have a few ideas why she thinks they've won. First, even with Trem alive, Jetstone has very likely lost the city. Jetstone's tactics have been hit-and-run, desperate moves using up precious resources to save key targets or achieve vital objectives. (Evacuate Slately, dust Archons, heal Trem, and now heal Cubbins) They're not in a position to save the city.
Secondly, she knows Charlie. She knows that even if he helps them out, it's going to come at some steep cost which indirectly benefits GK simply by the fact that it hurts Jetstone.
Lastly, I assume she knows that Fakely has a time-limit of some sort, be it juice- or turn-based. When he expires, the pacifist, tactical-minded, DIPLOMATIC Trem will be King. The war will end with some kind of alliance or peace.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3169
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby effataigus » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:57 am

It took me awhile to realize that the archon laughing was going to be explained. For a moment there I was theorizing that the net was a tickle-torture net, and that was why the archon wasn't blasting away right now. XD

I was impressed by the writing of this update. There was a lot of explanatory dialogue, but it didn't feel forced and, in fact, felt quite dramatic! Good to see confirmation that they are out of the garrison. I'd be curious if the explanatory lines in the first couple of panels would have made it in if people on the forums hadn't expressed their confusion about it.
Last edited by effataigus on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:31 am, edited 239044 times in total.
User avatar
effataigus
 
Posts: 944
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:49 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Man in the Mists and 3 guests