Book 2 – Page 88

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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby wrecan » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:01 am

bladestorm wrote:How would they know that Parson is in the Magic Kingdom?

The captured archon might let it slip. They might get it from the guards outside the portal they have to kill. Tramennis already knows that Parson has the ability to enter the Magic Kingdom. There are lots of possibilities.

Crazyterran wrote:So you are saying that Wanda/Stanley's religious views would be completely disregarded because a faction they are about to take the heart out of asks them to so they can have an alliance?

Neither Wanda nor Stanley are "Toolists". Toolists believe that attuned Tool-users are chosen to replace the nobles. Stanley has no grandiose belief. He's just pro-Stanley. Wanda is just following her destiny to reunite the Tools. She has no opinion on Nobility, and her offer to Queen Jillian to join their group is evidence of that.

Toolism is just something Parson invented, first to taunt pre-Decrypted Ansom, and later to hurt Charlie's business opportunities.

There's no reason for Parson to trust Jetstone, and there's probably no way that Stanley would go for an Alliance or truce when he has his opponent in a death grip.

GK suffered heavy losses. They lost their most powerful warlord, had to decrypt most of their dwagons and lost virtually all of their decrypted archons and a lot of soldiers. GK is no longer the formidable force it was at the beginning of battle. And Tramennis can still escape to another JS city and start all over again, and he can disband any remaining JS units in the city to prevent them from being decrypted, thus limiting their gains.

More importantly, GK just learned that there are other players in this "game", that Charlie is taking an active role and probably has to be the focus of their next war. And for that, they probably need allies.

I'm not saying Tramennis and Parson will truce, or even parley. I'm just saying all the pieces are in place to make it reasonable for them to do so.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby 0beron » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:21 am

coyotenose wrote:Wouldn't Cubbins have more Hits than most units, even as a caster? Surely he's slightly more likely to survive a fall, even given the random factor.

Hits haven't been said to factor in. The 3 possible outcomes are "Incapacitated", "Croaked", and "Fine/Unaffected". "Take Damage" is not one of the options.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby Lamech » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:54 am

0beron wrote:
coyotenose wrote:Wouldn't Cubbins have more Hits than most units, even as a caster? Surely he's slightly more likely to survive a fall, even given the random factor.

Hits haven't been said to factor in. The 3 possible outcomes are "Incapacitated", "Croaked", and "Fine/Unaffected". "Take Damage" is not one of the options.
Nope. Parson disagrees! Although Cubbins being the only survivor would make more sense if he had something like an airbag.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby 0beron » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:01 am

Ah ok, my bad. Well then hits are not relevant in Cubbins' case, because he came up incapacitated. If he had taken damage, he either would have been croaked in the fall, or he'd be ok/active right now.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby fehler » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:10 am

If anyone can sense a living unit under a pile of rubble, its a dirtamancer.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby bladestorm » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:50 am

Kreistor wrote:Rob made it clear that he does read and does take suggestions. Sylvia lives because of fan obsession with "Red". During the days of the Wiki, Rob wanted people making up their own Sides and ideas, which he would consider for inclusion. That went mostly nowhere, but that's what he wanted.

Wait, what? Where was this at? I completely missed that. That has the potential for huge amounts of awesomeness (as well as deep pits of raw, unrefined suckage).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:03 pm

Kreistor wrote:During the days of the Wiki, Rob wanted people making up their own Sides and ideas, which he would consider for inclusion. That went mostly nowhere, but that's what he wanted.

This was really a thing?
Edit* Holy boop ninja'd
Edit** and by ninja'd I mean left the browser open while doing something else...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby bladestorm » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:33 pm

Sounds like we need a side that makes use of ninjas. Plus all of the other goodies found in Warbarons. I'm particularly fond of camping a death knight at a city at a choke point that spawns spiders or demons. Just let him sit there raking in xp.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby Lamech » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:37 pm

bladestorm wrote:Sounds like we need a side that makes use of ninjas. Plus all of the other goodies found in Warbarons. I'm particularly fond of camping a death knight at a city at a choke point that spawns spiders or demons. Just let him sit there raking in xp.
Side: Atlantis. Not exactly the most interesting side around. It had a one hex island for a capital, although no ability to pop aquatic units. Or flying units. However it did have a wide variety of knight class units to pop with low grade mancy abilities. In the end, the ruler, a mighty caster, attempted to link and create a land bridge to expand to other areas. The spell backlashed sinking the city beneath the sea, in a massive vortex of destruction. Most of the city was destroyed, and nearly all of it flooded. The portal room was air tight. The ruler now uses the city to pop units for harvesting, and hangs out mostly in the MK. The vortex still remains, a massive storm of watersprouts, lighting, might currents, and general death makes approaching the city nearly impossible.

Huh, I think that was completely useless.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby MarbitChow » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:38 pm

For those interesting in designing your own side, check out this thread. In addition, forum members run a number of games that allow you to create and play your own side against other players. Keep an eye out for new games as they begin, and bring your side to life. :D
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby 0beron » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:47 pm

This Thread is one such game. We don't currently have any openings, but our rules involve pretty extensive side-creation mechanics, so you're welcome to amuse yourself with that, or even start a game of your own.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby effataigus » Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:08 pm

This really belongs in response to stuff said in the Amatuer Predictamancy Thread, but I don't want to risk hijacking that awesome thread with nearly pointless speculation, so...

By way of building a hypothetical bridge over a preposterous sea...

What if Ansom were king? Clonely's thinkamancy connection is just a relic of the one copied by the then-king Slately. Ansom could then order his units to submit to Wanda for decryption. Those units would then be torn between a desire to do what is best for Jetstone and what their ruler ordered. Rough.

Of course, what is best for Jetstone would probably be to have just rolled over and made an alliance with GK in the first place. The "give me liberty or give me death" argument only goes so far when they can get a version of you without liberty by giving you death.

Note, I don't believe this is the case at all... I'm guessing some of the retinue we're eavesdropping on would have mentioned it by now if they now felt a thinkamancy connection to Ansom.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby DoctorJest » Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:19 pm

wrecan wrote: Stanley has no grandiose belief.


Believing Nobility doesn't matter, but "holy" and "unholy" does, and that he is chosen divinely isn't grandiose (and "Toolist")?
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F032.jpg

"It is the will of the Titans that I control the Arkentools" isn't grandiose?
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F033.jpg
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby Salem » Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:36 pm

0beron wrote:Ah ok, my bad. Well then hits are not relevant in Cubbins' case, because he came up incapacitated. If he had taken damage, he either would have been croaked in the fall, or he'd be ok/active right now.

I'm not sure exactly how hits work but isn't there a number of hits a unit can take that makes them incapacitated rather than dead?
"Too cute to (stay) croak(ed)!"
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby 0beron » Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:40 pm

I don't believe so, at least it has never been mentioned. Either you're up, or you're croaked. Incapacitation is a special label that applies to a variety of special cases.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby Lamech » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:08 pm

effataigus wrote:This really belongs in response to stuff said in the Amatuer Predictamancy Thread, but I don't want to risk hijacking that awesome thread with nearly pointless speculation, so...

By way of building a hypothetical bridge over a preposterous sea...

What if Ansom were king? Clonely's thinkamancy connection is just a relic of the one copied by the then-king Slately. Ansom could then order his units to submit to Wanda for decryption. Those units would then be torn between a desire to do what is best for Jetstone and what their ruler ordered. Rough.
Or Ansom just disbands everyone in the garrison as soon as the Jetstone forces attempt a retake. Also I do believe that Ansom is king already. Otherwise why would Charlie need to call?


Note, I don't believe this is the case at all... I'm guessing some of the retinue we're eavesdropping on would have mentioned it by now if they now felt a thinkamancy connection to Ansom.

There is no indication that units feel any sort of connection to their ruler. Parson doesn't yet Stanley can feel a connection to him. Nor did Wanda feel any sort of "the connection to my ruler is gone" when her father died.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby wrecan » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:25 pm

DoctorJest wrote:
wrecan wrote: Stanley has no grandiose belief.


Believing Nobility doesn't matter, but "holy" and "unholy" does, and that he is chosen divinely isn't grandiose (and "Toolist")?
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F032.jpg

"It is the will of the Titans that I control the Arkentools" isn't grandiose?
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F033.jpg

It's not Toolism, though. Stanley is pompous and egocentric, but he doesn't think Tool-attunement replaces Nobility. He thinks Stanley is better than everyone else. He certainly doesn't think Charlie or any other Tool-attuned person is.

I don't think Stanley would object to an alliance with Jetstone if presented to him appropriately. And I don't think Stanley cares about Toolism, as long as he doesn't have to diminish his own personal greatness. He would object to conditions that seem like surrender, but JS is in no position to seek such conditions.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby joosy » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:54 pm

So.. Charlie is about to enter the picture directly again. He has his decrypted archons captured/dusted so he is grateful, but I wonder if he will have the presence of mind to offer help to Jetstone in their hour of need. He also has his operatives (former Unaroyal casters Spencer and Jefftichew and other carnymancers) going up against Parson in the Magic Kingdom. I predict we will finally see a massive caster vs caster battle that will hopefully be more epic than other ones we have seen.

I wonder if Charlie's plans not only includes denying GK natural allies but also entails an attack on the Gobwin Knob itself while all of its casters are otherwise detained. Maybe Stanley will finally get the solo battle he craves. Perhaps we can see him in his element rather in the position that he was Peter Principled into. With any luck they can get a bunch of defeated archons for Wanda to replenish her supply with.

I wonder,.. if Wanda returns to Jetstone will she be able to decrypt Slately? Maybe he's not considered to be in the garrison. However, if she is able to decrypt him, that would be a major bargaining chip with Trammennis given what happened with Ossomer. Not to mention the whole mystery of what happens if you decrypt a King/Overlord - do they retain their status? Would all of Jetstone now be loyal to Wanda via Slately?

And now Cubbins is back in the game as well. I wonder what role he has yet to play. If it was just having a hidden unit, Rob could have chosen a minor warlord, infantry/archer unit to be buried in the rubble. But then someone would obsess over them, give them a name, create a backstory, etc. and then we will never be rid of them no matter how much I wish. ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby the_tick_rules » Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:44 am

I guess that would depend on if she decrypts him before or after the heir becomes ruler. If she did it before I could see it being possible.
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 88

Postby Biostar » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:12 am

Lamech wrote:
effataigus wrote:This really belongs in response to stuff said in the Amatuer Predictamancy Thread, but I don't want to risk hijacking that awesome thread with nearly pointless speculation, so...

By way of building a hypothetical bridge over a preposterous sea...

What if Ansom were king? Clonely's thinkamancy connection is just a relic of the one copied by the then-king Slately. Ansom could then order his units to submit to Wanda for decryption. Those units would then be torn between a desire to do what is best for Jetstone and what their ruler ordered. Rough.
Or Ansom just disbands everyone in the garrison as soon as the Jetstone forces attempt a retake. Also I do believe that Ansom is king already. Otherwise why would Charlie need to call?


Note, I don't believe this is the case at all... I'm guessing some of the retinue we're eavesdropping on would have mentioned it by now if they now felt a thinkamancy connection to Ansom.

There is no indication that units feel any sort of connection to their ruler. Parson doesn't yet Stanley can feel a connection to him. Nor did Wanda feel any sort of "the connection to my ruler is gone" when her father died.


But Clonely would have felt something. He still retains the natural thinkamancy that leaders have with their troops. I don't think we've seen two rulers for one side. If he were no longer king, how would he be able to detect those units in the garrison if even Prince Tramennis couldn't? If Ansom was king since Slately's death, why would he do nothing to stop "his" troops from attacking the remaining Archons and not order them to surrender to GK? Doesn't add up to me.

Charlie is probably just calling now because he knows Clonely collected the bounty or is trying to be quick to collect his Archon before the double fades.
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