Predictions re: Charlie and Haffaton

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Predictions re: Charlie and Haffaton

Postby jah77 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:06 pm

I have been having some intuition about Charlie recently, based on some meta things like timing of storyline releases (e.g., of book 0 and book 2 together), the need for a story arc, some common types of plot twists, and other things. Here are my predictions:

Predictions:

The end of book 0 will reveal the origin of Charlie. He is not from Earth, he is a native to Erfworld. He is somehow related to Haffaton. Possibly he was a caster or warlord who found the arkendish at some point during Haffaton's reign, similar to Stanley, which led to him taking over the side or starting his own side and destroying Haffaton in the process.

I also predict that a lot of the casters associated with Haffaton were part of this whole bring peace to Erfworld movement (which now includes Janis and Marie Levraie), including especially Olive Branch and at least one predictamancer (e.g., Delphie Temple) who predicted something along the lines of that peace would be brought to Erfworld through the actions of Haffaton.

However, the prediction was not quite what they expected, which was that Haffaton would unite Erfworld under a banner of peace. In actuality, Haffaton spawned Charlie who created a reason for Thinkamancers to help bring Parson to Erfoworld so that Parson, not Haffaton, could bring peace to Erfworld.

I so predict it!
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Re: Predictions re: Charlie and Haffaton

Postby 0beron » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:10 pm

The one wrinkle in your theory is Charlie taking over Haffaton from within. During book 0, Charlsecomm has been referenced as a formal side. And it'd be very hard, if not impossible, to fake being a separate side.
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Re: Predictions re: Charlie and Haffaton

Postby jah77 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:19 pm

Hmm, you are correct -- Text 28 of Book 0.

I wonder if there is still a link, though, in that Haffaton predictamancers thought they would be the side to bring peace to Erfworld, but they will end up doing it through Parson instead, with Charlie as a sort of intermediate step.
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Re: Predictions re: Charlie and Haffaton

Postby Whispri » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:48 am

0beron wrote:The one wrinkle in your theory is Charlie taking over Haffaton from within. During book 0, Charlsecomm has been referenced as a formal side. And it'd be very hard, if not impossible, to fake being a separate side.


Right, but it would be possible for Charlie to have been an Haffaton heir who was allowed to form a Side. Doesn't seem like their style of course.
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Re: Predictions re: Charlie and Haffaton

Postby permanoob » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:44 pm

Okay, my theory is this: What if Charlie is not only a human, but also the worlds only Hamstard fan? That would be a coincidence for sure.
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Re: Predictions re: Charlie and Haffaton

Postby vintermann » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:42 am

Whispri wrote:Right, but it would be possible for Charlie to have been an Haffaton heir who was allowed to form a Side.


No, I don't think so. When listing up what distinguishes Royal sides in his klog, Parson mentions that they occasionally split. The implication is that non-royal sides do not split. I'm quite confident that the kind of superpowered, potentially world-conquering sides like Haffaton and Gobwin Knob have to be non-Royal. If they were Royal, they would have split. I think Royal sides compensate for their lack of unlimited growth potential with diplomacy bonuses (especially towards sides they've spun off / spun off from).

Support for the Royals have bonus to diplomacy theory:

* Goodminton was non-royal, had allies but only lousy ones.
* Haffaton is almost certainly non-royal, does not appear to have long-term allies.
* Jetstone has led huge alliances, and we've been shown stories about Tramennis' successful dealmaking.
* Transylvito has close ties to Faq and Jetstone, despite big cultural differences. Caesar Borgata, the heir who would turn Transylvito into a non-Royal side should he inherit it, opposes both these ties.
* Charlescomm is non-royal, and does not have non-mercenary alliances (though Charlie is stretching it now out of desperation - and doing pretty badly at it, his allies keep ignoring his advice.)
* Non-royal Jitterati failed to hold on to the Western Giants, losing them to royal (new) Faq.

Counterexamples (arguably):

* Haggar, royal yet pretty eager to betray Jetstone.
* Old Faq. Royal, obviously no allies.
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Re: Predictions re: Charlie and Haffaton

Postby drachefly » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:14 am

vintermann wrote:
Whispri wrote:Right, but it would be possible for Charlie to have been an Haffaton heir who was allowed to form a Side.


No, I don't think so. When listing up what distinguishes Royal sides in his klog, Parson mentions that they occasionally split. The implication is that non-royal sides do not split.


I don't see that implication as being terribly strong.
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Re: Predictions re: Charlie and Haffaton

Postby bladestorm » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:44 pm

Charlescomm may have a connection to Haffaton, via the wizard. The wizard of Efbaum may be Charlie, who escaped from Judy's clutches at the last minute. Or, the wizard may have escaped, and used a Summon Perfect Warlord spell. The result of that summoning was Charlie. Exact details about the Dish aside, we know that at some point Charlie attunes to the dish, and sets up Charlescomm as a Side unto its own. That could have been after the wizard died and Charlie inherited the Side (cities can be renamed wen they are rebuilt, why not rename a side as well. Specifications for the perfect warlord could have been 1) knowledge of how to accumulate schmuckers quickly, 2) able to command at a distance, 3) knowledge of unorthodox tactics and how to employ and counter them, 4) able to make a gain from any situation, 5) able to maximize usage of only a few unit types (really important if you are a really small side with no funding). What the wizard got was not exactly what he wanted, but it was what he asked for.
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Re: Predictions re: Charlie and Haffaton

Postby tgriff02 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:50 pm

vintermann wrote:No, I don't think so. When listing up what distinguishes Royal sides in his klog, Parson mentions that they occasionally split. The implication is that non-royal sides do not split. I'm quite confident that the kind of superpowered, potentially world-conquering sides like Haffaton and Gobwin Knob have to be non-Royal. If they were Royal, they would have split. I think Royal sides compensate for their lack of unlimited growth potential with diplomacy bonuses (especially towards sides they've spun off / spun off from).

Support for the Royals have bonus to diplomacy theory:

* Goodminton was non-royal, had allies but only lousy ones.
* Haffaton is almost certainly non-royal, does not appear to have long-term allies.
* Jetstone has led huge alliances, and we've been shown stories about Tramennis' successful dealmaking.
* Transylvito has close ties to Faq and Jetstone, despite big cultural differences. Caesar Borgata, the heir who would turn Transylvito into a non-Royal side should he inherit it, opposes both these ties.
* Charlescomm is non-royal, and does not have non-mercenary alliances (though Charlie is stretching it now out of desperation - and doing pretty badly at it, his allies keep ignoring his advice.)
* Non-royal Jitterati failed to hold on to the Western Giants, losing them to royal (new) Faq.

Counterexamples (arguably):

* Haggar, royal yet pretty eager to betray Jetstone.
* Old Faq. Royal, obviously no allies.



I understood Goodminton to be Royal, hence Wanda is Lady Firebough. And it is breifly referenced that her father was GOOD at negotiations and forming alliances, but the growth of Haffaton had swalloed so many of the loyal sides that he was just left with crud to deal with. And, it is also mentioned that up until Tremminis popped and was so clearly NOT a warrior type that Jetstone actually became a negotiating and ally making side, up until then theyw ere all about the glories and honor of combat and military victory.
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