Book 2 – Page 89

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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby Ansan Gotti » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:10 pm

oslecamo2_temp wrote:Allow me to point you to this page, 3rd panel, where we see a real warlord in action.

Crap falling from the sky, one arm melted, yet that warlord stands firm and decided.


A warlord in the midst of battle who knows his arm will regrow at dawn.

Anyway, I disagree with your characterization of Tramennis, and I don't really see it as germane to my overall point, which is that he's portrayed as a real character, not a Vulcan, robot, or decrypted. If you want to have a separate discussion about whether Tramennis is "holding the idiot ball," feel free to have at it, but I'm not really interested in that discussion, as we've had it here ad nauseam. Suffice it to say that I disagree with that characterization of Tramennis, as well.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby Chep » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:41 pm

I just noticed:
Yes he says "kill" because it's a quote, BUT....

If he knows he's talking about an Earthling instead of an Erfworlder..."KILL" actually is the correct form. You croak an Erfworlder, but someone from Stupidworld? You kill 'em.

This could just mean that he's aware of Stupidworld, could mean he is from Stupidworld, or could just be a friggin coincidence.

However I find it very fitting that he uses the word "KILL" for Parson, instead of "CROAK".
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby elecampane » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:42 pm

I would like to point out that during their last talk with Parson in thinkspace Maggie suggested she could control her appearance there, she just couldn't spare any attention to do that. So I'm guessing Charlie is fully in control of how others see him there (assuming they talk in thinkspace, which I think they do), and deliberately chooses controlling maniac villans to represent him at the moment, probably to make an impression. We already saw him being all cryptic symbols when he talked with Jillian who has had just was vexed him, and moments later being all teddybears and rainbows when he tried to charm Tramennis.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby bladestorm » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:46 pm

Chep wrote:I just noticed:
Yes he says "kill" because it's a quote, BUT....

If he knows he's talking about an Earthling instead of an Erfworlder..."KILL" actually is the correct form. You croak an Erfworlder, but someone from Stupidworld? You kill 'em.

This could just mean that he's aware of Stupidworld, could mean he is from Stupidworld, or could just be a friggin coincidence.

However I find it very fitting that he uses the word "KILL" for Parson, instead of "CROAK".

I blame the Arkendish. It's probably picking up all those radio waves that get broadcast out into space. Charlie prolly has every episode of I Love Lucy memorized, but since he doesn't have a mailing address, he can't pay just $19.95 plus shipping and handling for not one, but two, fabulous prizes.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby Joe22c. » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:12 pm

bladestorm wrote:
Joe22c. wrote:
0beron wrote:It's possible. Rob isn't above using a reference twice in different ways (Case and point, Jack is a constant reference to the Joker)...


Jack is not a reference to the Joker. Well he could be, but I'm 95% sure he was intended to be a reference to, 'the Fool' in Shakespeare's, "King Lear"

See book 1.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6igk ... o3_400.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_be6UWCLP7bU/S ... signed.jpg

The 'nuncle' part definitely comes from Lear. Characters aren't tied to a single reference.


I stand corrected!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby Tensor » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:46 pm

How many calculations does Parson owe Charlie?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby Emmerson Grant » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:48 pm

It's interesting the choice of villains.
Palpatine wants to rule the galaxy.
Doctor Doom wants to humilliate Richards and rule the world.
Dr. Gero wants the Dragon Balls to rule the world and to get back at Goku.
Agent Smith just wants to erradicate the troublesome human and get back to his orderly little world.
Zod wants the son of Jor-El to kneel before him.
Khan will stop at nothing to get revenge on Kirk.
Beetlejuice is summoned to get rid of troublesome humans living in ghost-owned homes.
The Joker just wants to see the world burn.

He starts as the galactic emperor and ends up as the guy who just wants to burn the world and kill batman.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby bladestorm » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:21 pm

Emmerson Grant wrote:It's interesting the choice of villains.
Palpatine wants to rule the galaxy.
Doctor Doom wants to humilliate Richards and rule the world.
Dr. Gero wants the Dragon Balls to rule the world and to get back at Goku.
Agent Smith just wants to erradicate the troublesome human and get back to his orderly little world.
Zod wants the son of Jor-El to kneel before him.
Khan will stop at nothing to get revenge on Kirk.
Beetlejuice is summoned to get rid of troublesome humans living in ghost-owned homes.
The Joker just wants to see the world burn.

He starts as the galactic emperor and ends up as the guy who just wants to burn the world and kill batman.

Palpatine -- An emperor that has spell-like powers and has a selection of vassals that traverse the universe doing his bidding. Dressed in a flowing cloak with a hood. Opponents are humanoids with spell-like powers (Jedi). His defeat joins him with his source of power (the Force/Dark Side)
Doom -- An emperor that has spell-like powers and an army of robotic followers (Doombots). Uses nomenclature of Doctor. Dressed in metallic armour and a flowing cloak with a hood. Opponents are humanoids with spell-like powers (FF and Dr Strange). His defeat reveal him to have actually been a doombot.
Gero - Runs an army of robotic followers (androids). Uses the nomenclature of Doctor. Mental program based upon his brain waves in an android body (20). Opponent use extreme martial arts and spell-like powers. His defeat never results in his death. Dressed in a suit of some sort.
Anderson - Mental program that inhabits an isolated reality. Opponents use extreme martial arts and spell-like powers, flying around like Superman. His defeat results in his absorption. Dressed in a dark suit.
Zod - Extraterrestrial with superhuman abilities. Opponent has powers the same as his own. His defeat results in being trapped in an alternate dimension (phantom zone). Dressed in a dark bodysuit with a lot of chest showing.
Khan - Extraterrestrial. Opponent has nearly identical abilities, being basically just a human with a ship. His defeat results in suspended animation (been a while, may need clarification). Dressed in a tight outfit that shows a lot of chest and eccentric accents for no functional reason.
Beetlejuice - Ghost, dressed in an eccentric suit. Opponents are normal humans. His defeat bears little repercussion. Burton directed this movie starring Michael Keaton.
Joker - No powers, just psycho. Main opponent is a man dressed as a bat. His defeat leads to incarceration, but he always gets out. Dressed in a snappy suit of purple. Main villain of the Michael Keaton Batman, directed by Burton.

Lots of segues there. The costuming flows equally as well between characters as character background, opponents, powers, and results of defeat. The last two are particularly heavy in connections.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby warriortribble » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:21 pm

Oh my. It looks more and more likely that Wanda will figure out that the "error" she made in following her fate is assuming that Charlie should be left alive.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby Lamech » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:30 pm

Tensor wrote:How many calculations does Parson owe Charlie?

Let me think... it started at 12 and he instantly spent 2. Then he spent another to determine Parson wasn't bluffing. Then a fourth to "determine" if Parson has useful information for him. (Presumably he was actually trying to get a read on the bracers abilities since he already knew of decryption.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby DanR » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:22 pm

Just registered to say Erfworld is becoming more and more appealing every updates, and I started it when it was Jamie on art and hosted on gitp.

Kuddos for this page, really. Insightful talks backed with awesome drawings. Comic 101. Thanks.

Edit : Artemis better have a follow-up, or...or...or...actually nothin' will happen, sleep tight or have a good day peeps.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby 1condor12 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:23 pm

fehler wrote:Noticed that the detail on the "Thinking Cap" has faded. Coincidence, or missed art detail?

ok did not see this. it no longer looks like a brain. so this implies that Slately is even more vulnerable to thinkamancy. this is not looking good for the current ruler of jetstone
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby Arky » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:55 pm

I believed in the "Charlie is from Earth" theory anyway, but I must say that his use of "kill" rather than "croak" is the best evidence yet.

Besides Kingworld, I would say that Charlie saved Jetstone by pushing them into going archon hunting for the bounty, without which Slately would have died without an heir in the collapse of the tower.

If Charlie is going to try to use Jetstone to kill Parson, that almost certainly means that Jeftichew and any other casters who are Charlie's Agents (tm) are about to clear a path for Parson to go through the portal. Hopefully he'll find that suspicious.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby Beeskee » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:11 am

Tensor wrote:How many calculations does Parson owe Charlie?


8 at my last count, too. Charlie has been surprisingly frugal with those.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby Schlock » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:55 am

bladestorm wrote:Khan - Extraterrestrial. Opponent has nearly identical abilities, being basically just a human with a ship. His defeat results in suspended animation (been a while, may need clarification). Dressed in a tight outfit that shows a lot of chest and eccentric accents for no functional reason.


Just a small correction there: Khan is a genetically engineered "perfect" human, rather than an extraterrestrial. And his defeat in Star Trek II results in death.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby Glory of Arioch » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:27 am

I just wanna say that the last panel is amazing. You've really nailed Heath Ledger's Joker and it looks beautiful. The colors, the lighting, the whole atmosphere is splendid. Well done!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby abb3w » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:08 am

Beeskee wrote:
Tensor wrote:How many calculations does Parson owe Charlie?

8 at my last count, too. Charlie has been surprisingly frugal with those.


You are obviously neither Thinkamancer nor Mathamancer.
The bracer is apparently capable of METAcalculations. Once Charlie discovered that (and worse, that Parson had hints at it), he stopped spending them, abruptly... perhaps realizing he'd been incredibly spendthrift thus far.

A vanilla programmable calculator watch isn't even a Turing Machine. It's at best (if high end) in the neighborhood of a 40ish-bit grade REGEX machine in power. The sort of analysis demonstrated seems to require a non-zero ordinal of Hypercomputer. Possibly a cardinal-caliber hypercomputer with Axiom Of Choice -- both of which I personally verge on religious objections to! Even presuming a mere ordinal value of "1" for the hypercomputation degree, the efficient value of each computation potentially exceeds the non-Tool Gross Erfworld Product.

But every computation Charlie expends risks teaching Parson something about how to use that new Tool-level gauntlet. And Charlie's asking about those limits increases the risk of Parson learning. And Parson doesn't have any analogous bound on how many uses he has to it. Worse yet, Parson may have met some of the underlying math at the edges of the Thinkamancy/Mathamancy border. (Hoffstadter's "Gödel Escher Bach" isn't that uncommon a geek read, though less common in the gaming-focused geeks.) Maybe all this is just a particular bee in my bonnet, but it seems Thinkamancer-Sagan isn't the Parson-ally Charlie needs to fear most. It's a Thinkamancer-Turing.

Nohow, Erfworld characters aren't limited to a single reference. The "two" may be a single Thinkamancer.

Image
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby TheEcologist » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:21 am

atalex wrote:
0beron wrote:
Ambug666 wrote:Didn't The Joker show up as one of the background -mancers in the Magic Kingdom, or am I misremembering?

It's possible. Rob isn't above using a reference twice in different ways (Case and point, Jack is a constant reference to the Joker). OR, this could mean Charlie is also a Foolamancer at some level, and he has been to the MK using that disguise.


Countdown to someone speculating that Jack is really Charlie in 3...2...1...

Seriously, that raises a good point about how pop culture can be grafted onto Erfworld in different ways. Jack dresses like the Ceasar Romero Joker -- the Clown Prince of Crime, an amusing prankster carrying at worst a vague air of menace. When Charlie manifests as the Joker, it's the Heath Ledger version, a terrifying force of chaotic destruction, mass murder with a smile. Good stuff.


I second, even third, that!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby Smoker » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:33 am

Chep wrote:If he knows he's talking about an Earthling instead of an Erfworlder..."KILL" actually is the correct form. You croak an Erfworlder, but someone from Stupidworld? You kill 'em.


I agree with this. Kill isn't a curse word, so it shouldn't be filtered, its just not applicable to Erfworlders.

Also on the topic of Charlie's signamancy, I've been of the opinion for a while now that Erfworld actually created Stupidworld. The summoning spell, in an effort to 'find' a warlord who felt everything on Erfworld was familiar and safe, was forced to construct an existence rich with Erfworld signamancy, played out in benign contexts such as food and entertainment. Having a unit so versed in signamancy lore is how Parson qualifies as a Hippiemancer (Signamancer).

So its not pop-culture references grafted over Erfworld... its the reverse.

Here endeth the speculation.
No, no. It hit him in the brain because it killed him. - Dante
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Re: Book 2 – Page 89

Postby mortissimus » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:55 am

abb3w wrote:But every computation Charlie expends risks teaching Parson something about how to use that new Tool-level gauntlet.


Also, every computation Charlie spends gives Parson information about what Charlie is up to. When the Archons were hovering over Gobwin Knob, that was obvious anyway, but if Charlie had asked Parson how many Megalowiffs were needed to defeat GK's attack on Jetstone that would have given Parson valuable information.
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