New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:14 pm

I love the Paragon idea, as I was wondering what to spend William's new APs on. Mighty Blow, at this point, is kinda meh. Useful, obviously, for his Combat maximizing build, but not that much.

On the topic of

MarbitChow wrote:(I'll be modifying the structural attacks in the Siege update so that Fire attacks don't do any damage, though, unless the attacks also have a Siege value; arrows can't destroy walls.)


I'm reminded of Discworld. The Watch of Ankh Morpork had a Troll wielding a ballista as a crossbow. There's your siege engine right there. And while William has yet to reach the size of a Troll, who knows, lol.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Nnelg » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:11 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:I'm reminded of Discworld. The Watch of Ankh Morpork had a Troll wielding a ballista as a crossbow.

Ah, the good ol' Piecemaker.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Swodaems » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:02 pm

Would Paragon's leadership bonus stack with a normal leadership bonus?
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:21 pm

Swodaems wrote:Would Paragon's leadership bonus stack with a normal leadership bonus?
As written, no. However, based on the existing feedback, I'm thinking of reworking Paragon to provide an Inspiration bonus (like the Dying Cry effect) instead of a leadership bonus. This seems to me like it makes more sense, and is more in-character with the idea.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:27 pm

I like that idea, however Inspiration bonuses are dumb as they currently work. The idea that any amount of inspiration turns simple melee units into siege the way the Alt Elves have done to their allies is...bullcrap. It's fine that they apply on attacks against structures for units that ARE Siege, but granting normal units siege is unbalanced.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:30 pm

0beron wrote:I like that idea, however Inspiration bonuses are dumb as they currently work. The idea that any amount of inspiration turns simple melee units into siege the way the Alt Elves have done to their allies is...bullcrap. It's fine that they apply on attacks against structures for units that ARE Siege, but granting normal units siege is unbalanced.
That's why we play-test. Note that new siege will be included as part of rules revamp, including more details on structures, etc. It's quite likely that normal (non-siege) attacks will not be able to harm structures at all after this revamp. But, in the meantime, we've got an interesting fight. :D
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:35 pm

Ok, glad you took that comment the way it was intended :p After I posted it I had visions of you being insulted by my word choice :oops:
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:30 pm

Request For Feedback - New Rules - City Management; Additional Abilities:Paragon, Regent; Special:Elite

Non-Caster Luvin', take 2:

City Management
By default, cities produce UP and Shmuckers based on their level. Capital cities produce an additional +100 shmuckers / level.

    City Level 1 : 1 UP, 100 Shmuckers
    City Level 2 : 2 UP, 400 Shmuckers
    City Level 3 : 4 UP, 900 Shmuckers
    City Level 4 : 8 UP, 1600 Shmuckers
    City Level 5 : 16 UP, 2500 Shmuckers
A city that does not have a Manager suffers a -25% Shmuckers penalty each turn.

Manager : Any unit with leadership can be designated Manager of a city. In order for the city to get the bonus for a manager, the unit must be in the city at either the start or the end of the turn. A city cannot have more than 1 Manager designated each turn.

Additional Abilities

[Requires Non-Caster] Regent (1 AP) : A city managed by this unit generates an additional 10% Shmuckers.
[Requires Level 4, Regent] Comptroller (1 AP) : A city managed by this unit generates +100 Shmuckers / Level. This bonus is added after the bonus for Regent.
[Requires Level 4, Regent] Logistician (1 AP) : A city managed by this unit generates +0.5 UP / Level.

[Requires Level 4, Non-Caster] Paragon (1 AP) : All units of the same build as this unit (Warrior, Spearman, Archer, or Flyer) in this unit's stack get +1 Combat / +1 Defense Inspiration Bonus.
[Requires Paragon, Leadership] Trainer(1 AP) : Each turn, a trainer can grant +1 Training XP to up to 8 units of the same build as the Trainer. A trainer must be at least 2 levels higher than any unit he trains.
[Requires Paragon, Well-Protected] Guardian (1 AP) : Unit gains an additional +4 Defense. Paragon Inspiration Bonus increases to +2 Defense.
[Requires Paragon, Well-Armed] Berserker (1 AP) : Unit gains an additional +4 Combat. Paragon Inspiration Bonus increases to +2 Combat.
[Requires Paragon, Regent] Inspiration(1 AP) : While this unit is a Manager, any unit of the same build as this unit that is popped in this city gains the Elite special.
[Requires Trainer] Instructor(1 AP) : An Instructor can train an additional 8 units each turn.

Training XP is not available to any units on any turn in which Combat XP is awarded.

Specials

Elite: Unit gainst +1 Combat, +2 Defense, and +5 Hits.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:38 pm

Excellent, I love it. The AP tax and level requirement to get to training means it will not be widely available. I think this helps address the balance problems people were worried about earlier.
Provided that thing about Inspiration granting siege is fixed, I think this is excellent.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:06 pm

Request For Feedback - New Rules - Structures; Siege Equipment

City Structures
All City Structures have Structure Points (SP), which are similar to Hits for units. An attack must specify that it does Structural Damage in order to damage a structure's SP.

Immobile Structures
Gate: A city gate has a base 20 SP, +10 SP / City Level.
    (opening, closing, and barring gate details pending.)
Walls: Each 4-square section of wall has a base 25 SP, +25 SP / City Level. The top of the wall is considered Elevation Level 1.
Defensive Tower: A defensive tower has 20 SP, +20 SP / City Level. The top of the wall is considered Elevation Level 2.
Spell Tower: A spell tower has 20 SP, +20 SP / City Level. The top of the wall is considered Elevation Level 2. A city can only have 1 spell tower.
    Any offensive spell can be stored in a Spell tower. Each tower can store 2 spells, +1 per City Level. All spell effects are based on the Caster's stats at the time of casting.
    Stored spells can only target flying units. Any caster or unit with Leadership can trigger the spells.
    All Fire attacks against Flying units made by a Caster from a spell tower do an additional +1d6 / City Level.

Structure Enhancements
Crenelations (Walls, Towers): Units at the edge of the wall receive +4 cover bonus.
Arrow Slits (Walls, Towers): Units behind Arrow Slits receive +10 cover bonus, but -1 Elevation Level (minimum 0 Elevation).

Mobile Structures
All mobile structures require operators. Beasts, Mounts and Inhuman units cannot be operators. Mobile structures cannot be placed on Mounts or Transports. Mobile structures can be popped like units.

Heavy Ballista (4 UP, 18 SP): Requires 2 units or 1 Heavy Unit to operate. Grants Fire for [Combat/2 + 4d6 OR 2d6 Structural Damage]. Move 4{4}.
Catapault (4 UP, 12 SP): Requires 2 units to operate. Grants Fire for [3d6 normal + 1d6 that ignores defense OR 2d6 Structural Damage]. Move 4{4}.
Cauldron (4 UP, 24 SP): Requires 4 units to move. Requires 2 units to pour. Can only be used once every 2 rounds. Inflicts 4d6 to all units in 2x2 square in front of it. Ignores defense. Move 4{4}.
Assault Tower (8 UP, 35 SP): Requires 4 units to operate. The Top of the Assault Tower is considered Elevation Level 1. Unless the tower has Arrow Slits, operator Units inside the tower are completely concealed, and do not have RLOS on the field. Max 4 units inside, 4 units on top. Move 4{4}.
Covered Ram (4 UP, 20 SP): Requires 4 units to operate. Units only have RLOS on units of the same elevation. Grants Attack for 2d6 Structural Damage. Move 4{4}.
Ram (2 UP, 10 SP): Requires 4 units to operate. Grants Attack for 2d6 Structural Damage. Move 6{4}.

Equipment
Mining Pick: Grants Attack for d6 Structural Damage.

Structure Destruction
Destroying a gate simply makes the gate squares passable.
Destroying a 4-square section of wall will collapse the 4 squares above it, 2 squares in. Any non-flying units standing there will fall. (Falling damage is a hidden mechanic.)
Destroying a tower (mobile or otherwise) will collapse the entire tower. Any non-flying units standing there will fall.
Units that are underneath the collapsing structures also take falling damage, exactly as if they had been standing in the squares above them.
Last edited by MarbitChow on Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:15 pm

Request For Feedback - New Rules - Construct/Mount Abilities

Additional Abilities
[Requires Mount] Stable (0.5 AP): Mount gains +4 Defense bonus vs. Dismounting attacks. Can be purchased more than once.
[Requires Mount] Swift (0.5 AP): Mount gains +2{+2} Move. Can be purchased more than once.
[Requires Mount] Leaper (1 AP): Mount gains Agile special.
[Requires Mount] Imprinted (1 AP): Select an unit (the 'Imprinted Rider'). Mount gains +4 Combat / +4 Defense while that unit is it's rider. If the imprinted rider is killed, another rider can be imprinted after spending 2 Turns with the mount.
[Requires Mount, Imprinted] Dressage (1 AP): When riden by its Imprinted Rider, mount can split its move, moving before and after the rider acts.
[Requires Level 4, Mount] Destrier (1 AP): Grants Transport(1)

[Requires Construct] Agility (1 AP): Construct gains Agile special.
[Requires Construct] Explody (1 AP): Construct gains Explode, which allows the unit to spend an action to destroy itself and do 2d6 damage to all adjacent units. Damage ignores defense. (Construct does not explode if destroyed by any other means..)
[Requires Construct, Explody] Unstable (1 AP): If construct is destroyed, it does 2d6 damage to all adjacent units. Damage ignores defense. Can be triggered by the automatic destruction caused by Explode.
[Requires Construct] Speedy (1 AP): Construct gains +4{+0} Move.
[Requires Construct] Statuesque (0 AP): Construct cannot leave the hex it is created in. Construct only requires 1/2 the normal juice to create.
Last edited by MarbitChow on Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:25 pm

Love the Construct abilities, and Mount makes sense too. You should specify the detail of Explody though. Does it require an action? Can it be done anytime or only on the unit's turn? ect
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:28 pm

0beron wrote:Love the Construct abilities, and Mount makes sense too. You should specify the detail of Explody though. Does it require an action? Can it be done anytime or only on the unit's turn? ect
Done. It's an action, just like Attack, Strike, or Fire. It's just a one-shot.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:52 pm

How would you feel about Agility and Explody being 0.5 AP? And does Unstable mean the abilities stack and deal 4d6 on destruction/trigger?
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:01 pm

0beron wrote:How would you feel about Agility and Explody being 0.5 AP?
Nope. I'm not going to allow cheap agile bombs. The Agile/Explody/Unstable combo is going to require a regular construct.
0beron wrote:And does Unstable mean the abilities stack and deal 4d6 on destruction/trigger?
Yes, the damage from Unstable stacks w/ Explody.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:05 pm

Cool cool, I'm good with it
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Werebiscuit » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:38 pm

MarbitChow wrote: All Fire attacks made by a Caster from a spell tower do an additional +1d6 / City Level.


Shouldn't there be a stored juice cost associated with this, or have you done away with that ?


MarbitChow wrote:Equipment
Mining Pick: Grants Attack for d6 Structural Damage.


d6 seems a bit much considering we could be dealing that to a door on average in 12 hits for a 1st level city ( 40SP) and a ram only does 2d6. You'd be far better equipping your cannon fodder with picks than a ram. You're going to do 4d6 for the same manpower and it doesn't matter if you lose one or two on the way to the door, you'll still have some to do damage. You could take 50% losses and still do the same as a ram with no losses

even at d6/2 the pick is better due to the fact that losing 2 men will still do damage with the pick whereas it makes the ram useless

At d6/3 the ram starts to make sense but the pick still seems somehow better.

At d6-3 or d6-4 then the ram makes sense at last
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Nnelg » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:31 pm

Werebiscuit wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:Equipment
Mining Pick: Grants Attack for d6 Structural Damage.

d6 seems a bit much considering we could be dealing that to a door on average in 12 hits for a 1st level city ( 40SP) and a ram only does 2d6. You'd be far better equipping your cannon fodder with picks than a ram. You're going to do 4d6 for the same manpower and it doesn't matter if you lose one or two on the way to the door, you'll still have some to do damage. You could take 50% losses and still do the same as a ram with no losses

even at d6/2 the pick is better due to the fact that losing 2 men will still do damage with the pick whereas it makes the ram useless

At d6/3 the ram starts to make sense but the pick still seems somehow better.

At d6-3 or d6-4 then the ram makes sense at last

Well, if I may make a suggestion, perhaps if the ram also acted as a shelter for the manning units then, combined with a slight reduction of the pick's damage, it might be more fair.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:33 pm

Werebiscuit wrote:Shouldn't there be a stored juice cost associated with this, or have you done away with that ?
I think I'm going to do away with that. Erfworld canon is that a Tower improves casters, but trying to figure out the effects on each spell seems like too much work.

Edit: Realized I'd left off the "Fliers Only" qualifier. That's back in now. Don't want to step on the archer's toes. :D

Werebiscuit wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:Mining Pick: Grants Attack for d6 Structural Damage.
At d6-3 or d6-4 then the ram makes sense at last
Yeah, makes sense. Let's make it 1 pt Structural Damage. Enough guys with picks will get in eventually, but it won't be quick.

Although level 1 cities should be able to be breached pretty quickly. According to Book 1, a level 1 city can barely keep anyone out.

Nnelg wrote:Well, if I may make a suggestion, perhaps if the ram also acted as a shelter for the manning units then, combined with a slight reduction of the pick's damage, it might be more fair.
See "Covered Ram". Rams get there faster, covered rams are safer.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:41 am

On the topic of Luckamancy (because I wanted to move the convo here rather than clutter up battle) I don't think the method of turning enemy 1's into 6's is fair. Even though the enemy has no choice in the matter, it still sets them up to be better off than the side who originally cast the spell. Luckamancy is (from a flavor perspective) more like "I'm going to buff this unit, and somewhere nearby we get negatively affected."
The 1's into 6's method is more like "I'm going to buff a unit that might have rolled a 6 anyway, in exchange for turning an enemy roll that IS crap into a 6."
If a good enemy roll is the backlash, then it should either be the next roll the enemy makes, or be randomly determined.

And on a tangent from that, I'm not sure that giving the enemy a good roll is even the way to simulate the backlash properly. Clay suggests that the backlash effects your own side usually, so for every 6 we get through luckamancy, the next 6 our side rolls naturally gets turned into a 1. Thoughts?
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