Darkness Rising

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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:16 am

MarbitChow wrote:
Nnelg wrote:Hm... You know, if I may but in, I think that's kinda unfair to the side casting the scroll. The enemy shouldn't get to choose where their good luck goes, IMO. Perhaps if the effect was just to modify the next roll (or three, as the case may be) of a natural 1 by the enemy to a 6, no matter who rolled that 1, would be better.

They don't get to choose, and the method you mention is the method I actually would use to resolve it. Starting on the round following each uses, any 1 becomes a 6 until the bad luck is used up; if no ones are rolled, I'll start modifying 2s, then 3s, etc.

The enemy side's rolls are actually probably enhanced a bit more than the casting side's this way, but the enemy has no control over where it is applied. Heck, they don't even have control over which enemy benefits from the luck. If the scroll is used in a conflict with elves, and the next encounter is with barbarians, the barbarians are boosted - the elves just get hosed.



OOC how about you start by modifying 5's and if no 5's are rolled then go for 4's etc ? :twisted: :D /OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Swodaems » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:35 am

Werebiscuit wrote:OOC Speaking personally I'm against a further contract with Charlie on this. The 1,000 schmucker kickback looks good until you realise that we stand to lose 9,000 in rebuliding costs if the elves manage to take down both towers.

They've already more than half demolished one tower ( 40 points damage) and by the end of turn 3 can have 10 elves with com 18-24 round the other. At the moment that's 10x 2d6 -1 so roughly about 60 points damage to our other tower. I'd suspect less than that since we'll take out some leadership bonuses so possibly 20 points damage but more likely 30+. Our Melee forces cannot reach them until after they have gone on turn 4 so Rolf's tower is more than likely gone in turn 4. If we allow Archons to kill Altrustic elves on turn 4 then even the spearmen guarding the gumps become a threat as they'll then have a com around 23 minimum and they then become a threat to our other tower just as we're taking out the gumps. If we take the 1,000 then by turn 5 these spearmen will have com 29 and be doing 2d6+4. Unless each and every one rolls less than 4 our other tower is down in round 5.

We'll be hard pushed to save either tower as it stands but taking the contract will see them both fall by turn 5 as I doubt our bowmen can take down enough of their forces ( it's taking our 4 big guns to take out 5 of them and theres 26 of them, not counting gumps - we need to deal with the 2 remaining gumps before turn 5 and won't have Rolfs ballista to do it with.)

all-in-all the contract is a bad idea. Credit to the King in Green who has spent 4, 000 to cost us 9,000 /OOC
Werebiscuit wrote:OOC Following on from that reasoning above Swodaems, I now believe your plan to take out leadership to be a bad idea and wasteful as it will not diminish the threat on either tower.

If we focus on taking out the forces on Yuri's tower it will force them to split the force attacking Rolf's ( they're already preparing for this by their positioning).
I now don't think we can save both towers. If we take our eye off Yuri's to try to save Rolfs then it allows them to have a chance at both with likely results as above.
We use Rolf's ballista while we can. By the end of turn 3 the warriors round Rolfs tower will go before Rolf (phase 23 vs Rolf's 21) on turn 4 so he will not get a shot off in turn 4, in fact he will fall with the tower. I don't think we can prevent it without giving up his shot in turn 3.

They cannot reach Yuri's tower in round 3 and to try to do so will mean less damage to Rolf's tower. We can also interpose our ground forces (dodging like they're in a hailstorm) and thus try to stop them getting to Yuri's tower. I think we've a shot at protecting Yuri's tower. I don't think we can protect Rolf's.

This is why I wanted ground forces out. The more distractions their forces have the less chance of achieving their aims. That's what they're currently doing to us, trying to get us to change our aims from protecting one tower to the other. Please don't allow them to do it. /OOC

You're forgetting that only the base combat score and inspiration bonuses matter against structures. Leadership, Dance-fighting, and attack modifiers are all explicitly defined as currently being useless against structures. We still have a couple more rounds before the warriors and spearmen start being able to truely damage the 25 def towers. I'm curious as to where you're geting the number 23 for the elves' combat time in round 4. By my count it should be 18.

My count: (Warriors start with 8 base com. Since only inspiration bonuses affect start time and structure damage, only they are reflected in the count.)
round 1: 8->8 (Archons have yet to get contacted by the king in green with the job)
round 2: 8->14 (The round we just completed. Archons downed 3 alt elves.)
round 3: 14->18(The Archons should only be able to get 2 more alt elves next round. The warriors have a 21/36 chance of doing 0 damage to towers with 18 usable com. (They need an 8 or above.))
round 4: 18->(18,20,22) (Depending on our actions, the archons can get either 0,1,or 2 alt elves this round. This means the warriors do either ~0, ~2, or ~4 damage per attack on the tower. Worse case scenario, Rolf's tower would still be standing after attacks from all 12 warriors in round 4, but evacuation would seem like a good idea. Yuri's tower would be in trouble if the warriors spend their round 3 moves getting close to it.(8 of them could make it to the right tower with 16 move.))
round 5+: (18,20,22)->(18,20,22,24) (This is the earliest the Archons can have all 8 elves croaked by. Warriors can be doing either ~0,~2,~4, or~6 per attack to towers.)

(Marbitchow, can you make Rona's offer clearer with regards to the deadline the alt elves have to be croaked by? Depending on how it is read, round 2 could count towards the 3 round deadline, making the deadline round 4 instead of round 5. I want to make sure Charlie is offering us a valid deadline.)

Assuming Charlie's offer is valid, then I do a little renegotiating using Yuri as a relay. I advocate a plan that croaks 2 alt elves in round 3, 1 in round 4, and 2 in round 5. (We space out Buffy or Rona in round 3. In round 4, the one we don't space out does a wake up action on the one we do space out.) I say that this will look more authentic than us simply stopping interference. I also try to change the price. I ask that Armolad and Amandaria be captured alive and brought to us. (Either the Archons do all the work themselves, or they help us with a capture mission. Amandaria can only get 16 hexes away with the rest of her move this turn. A small party on the balrug could reach her. (This plan does require bringing a brick bat screen.)) If they don't go for that, then I ask that the price be increased to 1250. I also add in the odd request that, from now on, Buffy, Rona, and Faith are all required to carry a handkerchief embroidered with the names of our troops lost in this battle.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Exate » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:48 am

Swodaems wrote:(Marbitchow, can you make Rona's offer clearer with regards to the deadline the alt elves have to be croaked by? Depending on how it is read, round 2 could count towards the 3 round deadline, making the deadline round 4 instead of round 5. I want to make sure Charlie is offering us a valid deadline.)

Assuming Charlie's offer is valid, then I do a little renegotiating using Yuri as a relay. I advocate a plan that croaks 2 alt elves in round 3, 1 in round 4, and 2 in round 5. (We space out Buffy or Rona in round 3. In round 4, the one we don't space out does a wake up action on the one we do space out.) I say that this will look more authentic than us simply stopping interference. I also try to change the price. I ask that Armolad and Amandaria be captured alive and brought to us. (Either the Archons do all the work themselves, or they help us with a capture mission. Amandaria can only get 16 hexes away with the rest of her move this turn. A small party on the balrug could reach her. (This plan does require bringing a brick bat screen.)) If they don't go for that, then I ask that the price be increased to 1250. I also add in the odd request that, from now on, Buffy, Rona, and Faith are all required to carry a handkerchief embroidered with the names of our troops lost in this battle.
Talking might nominally be a free action, but that is a hell of a lot of talking and there is still a battle on- not to mention that this conversation is happening largely in Yuri's head, presumably specifically to avoid anyone else noticing it (as the King in Green is watching the battle). I'm not sure how much of this can actually be confirmed/happen.

Also, we can capture them entirely on our own with no problems, I'm pretty sure. We have scouts to find them, and once they're located we just send a couple casters to smack 'em with hippiemancy. The Archons don't actually have any advantage over our own forces in capturing them except in that they can see through veils, which is unlikely to come up. Unless you're aware of something I've overlooked?
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Swodaems wrote:You're forgetting that only the base combat score and inspiration bonuses matter against structures. Leadership, Dance-fighting, and attack modifiers are all explicitly defined as currently being useless against structures. We still have a couple more rounds before the warriors and spearmen start being able to truely damage the 25 def towers. I'm curious as to where you're geting the number 23 for the elves' combat time in round 4. By my count it should be 18.



my bad :oops: I had it in my head that Alt elves gave +3 com and +1 def which would put their actions up by another 5 phases (+1 per dead elf i.e. 23 instead of 18.)
No wonder I was so worried. !

Thank goodness it's not that. :)

There's still a good chance that they will go before Rolf in turn 5 though...even by your own count. So by that time they will be damaging def 25 towers at 2d6-3 (x 10) ( 40 points avg) especially if we take the 1000 for charlie's contract.

if leadership doesn't matter against structures why are we focussing on reducing it rather than taking away the threat to the structures ?
Especially if we're only going to get 2 leaders...all they have to do is switch stacks so that any elves facing our troops are in a led stack and our big guns efforts have been useless.

Swodaems wrote:[round 4: 18->(18,20,22) (Depending on our actions, the archons can get either 0,1,or 2 alt elves this round. This means the warriors do either ~0, ~2, or ~4 damage per attack on the tower. Worse case scenario, Rolf's tower would still be standing after attacks from all 12 warriors in round 4, but evacuation would seem like a good idea. Yuri's tower would be in trouble if the warriors spend their round 3 moves getting close to it.(8 of them could make it to the right tower with 16 move.))
round 5+: (18,20,22)->(18,20,22,24) (This is the earliest the Archons can have all 8 elves croaked by. Warriors can be doing either ~0,~2,~4, or~6 per attack to towers.)

Note the bold and underlined...if Rolf is evacuating the tower on round 4 he will not get in a ballista shot. No downed gump and it will recover stun and attack Yuri's tower on round 4. Best to down it this coming round.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:24 pm

Well targeting Leadership is still useful because Leadership does apply to their Defense normally, so it's just another modifier we have control over. Just pointing out that benefit.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:27 pm

0beron wrote:Well targeting Leadership is still useful because Leadership does apply to their Defense normally, so it's just another modifier we have control over. Just pointing out that benefit.



Only useful if we can target those with reduced leadership. We 've not been told which are in whose stack so far...or we would have been firing at the ones who were not in armolad's. And it's already been noted that they can switch stacks
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby The Colonel » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:30 pm

Fine, target siege first. When it is dead, target leadership, then MELEE!
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:43 pm

Swodaems wrote:Marbitchow, can you make Rona's offer clearer with regards to the deadline the alt elves have to be croaked by?
OOC: Rona isn't actually providing a formal contract this time. There's no time limit build into the negotiation. She's simply making an offer: stop doing anything further to delay the Archons, and you get a 1000 shmucker kickback. Delay them in any way further, and you get nothing. That's pretty much it.

Yuri is the only one who is currently in contact with Rona, and thus even aware that the offer exists. Without a Dark Archon on your side to inform you of spells in effect, Tod isn't even aware that Yuri is communicating with Rona.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:54 pm

Just as A note about taking on leadership It will take all 4 big guns to croak 2 leaders and their associated guards ( (3 guards)
The other 2 leaders each have 3 guards with a def of approx 15 ( 4 + 6 dodge +3 inspir +2 lead) our com 16 archers will thus do 2d6+1 for an avaerage of 8 so it will take 4 of them to down one guard (28 hits) and thus all 12 to get rid of the guards on one commander.
The commander is likely to be def 17 ( level 2) and will need 35 damage our 4 com 19's will be doing 2d6 +2 for an average of 36 from all 4.

We'll not have enough to get the 4th commander as I see it.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby ETheBoyce » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:46 pm

Well I was planning on Ickyproning the gumps and one of the leadership
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:49 pm

Yeah, Gumps are already taken care of going forward. They're good single-targets that we can manage with Shockamancy. Whereas the melee is a swarm of weaker enemies that Shock can't manage as easily.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:54 pm

0beron wrote:Yeah, Gumps are already taken care of going forward. They're good single-targets that we can manage with Shockamancy. Whereas the melee is a swarm of weaker enemies that Shock can't manage as easily.


2 points
1./ At 14 juice left Coil has 1 more ickypron before he needs to down a potion. He'll not be able to ickypron in round 4. The gumps will then become unstunned
2 At max his ickypron will do 32 damage ( that's rolling 2 6's). The gumps have 48 hits left. The commanders 35. He'll down neither and stun does not stop commanders passing on their leadership bonus.

I'm not seeing how we can manage either with shockamancy.

At 28 hits he will take down 3 spearmen if he rolls an 8's or above on his 2d6's. ( remember to down 3 spearmen guarding commanders it was costing us 12 com 16 archers. Coil is thus worth another dozen archers) Used tactically this can give us an opening to bring ground forces unmolested into the field. We can wipe out the whole right hand side of the field ( gumps and their guards with the big guns plus another 6 spearmen) and bring our melee in there to protect Yuri's tower.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:01 pm

Werebiscuit wrote:I'm not seeing how we can manage [Gumps or Leadership] with shockamancy.

Doing that much damage to the Gumps is good, and he doesn't have to finish them, just delay them for another turn. Our archers are no longer in any danger, and we're swarming melee out soon. So all we need is one more turn of stun on the Gumps before they're toast.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:20 pm

Ok just looking at numbers of units

If we take down 2 commanders plus 3 guards with the big guns plus another commander and his 3 guards with the archers. Thats 9 units eliminated
Coil need s to restun and we've then 6 zeds which will be doing 2d6-3. that's not enough to take down another unit on avg but let's say we get lucky and take a 10th

My previous posts described how to take down 2 gumps their 4 guards plus another 6 spearmen. That's 12 units and we still haven't used the 6 zeds.
Are we not better eliminating more units now before they get stronger ?

Turn 4 the guards and gumps will have a better def and be harder to take down.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:28 pm

Alright fair point.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:03 pm

Things still appear to be in the discussion stage. Just let me know when orders are finalized.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:16 am

MarbitChow wrote:Things still appear to be in the discussion stage. Just let me know when orders are finalized.

Unfortunately, without Exate and Swodaems resolving what we're going to do about the offer from Charlie all we can do is discuss whats best for next turn, as several players still have actions this turn (0beron, Watermonkey & Fkrts)
In fact Watermonkey had already given orders which negated the offer but that was before the offer was made so he might want to rescind them depending on what is decided.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:34 am

I'm not entirely sure that we, the other PCs not partaking in that negociation, can carry some clout in discussing what to do. Nor am I certain that Watermonkey314's order to ward the elves can be so easily cancelled.

For my (OOC) money, fuck Charlie and the horse he rode in on. The deal is crap, it stinks of a bit of an ass-pull, and I like Watermonkey314's idea as a genuine out-of-the-box spark.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:38 am

Tactics-wise, I agree with 0beron's suggestion to keep the Gumps stunned as long as possible. We could probably send Heck pups to finish them off too.

However, why do we persist to fight with one hand behind our back? We've got loads of infantry that we're not using. Especially now, with the bonus accumulation somewhat delayed, we can afford to send soldiers in the field. Especially now, before the Archons kill even more Alt Elves and make our soldiers' jobs harder.

In fact, I suggest we actually go crazy because we can afford it. Let's capture at least one Altruist Elf. Now.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby The Colonel » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:22 am

UNLEASH THE SWARM!
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