New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:00 am

0beron wrote:On the topic of Luckamancy (because I wanted to move the convo here rather than clutter up battle) I don't think the method of turning enemy 1's into 6's is fair. Even though the enemy has no choice in the matter, it still sets them up to be better off than the side who originally cast the spell.
Yes, that is my intent. Luckamancy is designed to concentrate luck; it's not a simple buff. Luckamancy is used for specific situations - getting those few extra hits in on a powerful enemy to kill him before he can strike again, typically. The backlash will usually be distributed amongst the larger number of cannon fodder that the enemy has, and is not likely to be used against a PC.

0beron wrote:And on a tangent from that, I'm not sure that giving the enemy a good roll is even the way to simulate the backlash properly. Clay suggests that the backlash effects your own side usually, so for every 6 we get through luckamancy, the next 6 our side rolls naturally gets turned into a 1. Thoughts?
Ultimately, I'm aware that Luckamancy is in need of a dramatic overhaul, but we really don't have much of an idea how it works in the comic. I've got some ideas, but it's a low priority, since there are no luckamancers in the campaign currently and only a single scroll. It hasn't been an issue for the many months, and will not dramatically effect the current fight if it does get used.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:05 am

Makes sense. I could definitely add some ideas to the eventual overhaul. Once he has the core of his golem-making abilities solidified, Vinny might want to take the basic Luckamancy spell, so I'm certainly interested in the overhaul when it eventually comes.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:10 am

Request For Feedback - New Rules - Karma; Luckamancy

New mechanic: Side Stat - Karma
Sides with a Luckamancer have Karma. Every Luckamancy spell alters his side's Karma. When a dice roll is altered for a unit on the caster's side, the difference between the original result and the 'lucky' result is subtracted from (for a boost) or added to (for a curse) his side's Karma. Dice rolls modified for enemy units change the side's Karma in the opposite direction. (See examples below.) Some spells require Karma in addition to Juice. Negative Karma gets used by the storyteller to modify enemy dice rolls arbitrarily until it restores to zero (typically rolls against low-level cannon fodder units).

Clevermancy (Luckamancy)
Luckamancy boosts and curses last until used, and can persist over multiple turns if not used. Only one of Lesser Boost, Lesser Curse, Greater Boost or Greater Curse can be on a unit at a time.
Bonus: Caster who specializes in Luckamancy rolls twice when using Fire actions or casting Shockamancy spells (but not scrolls), taking the better of the two rolls. At 4th level, all Fire action and Shockamancy spell rolls are automatically maxed instead. This does not modify the side's Karma.

Lesser Boost - The next time a unit rolls for an action (attack or spell), the results are rolled twice, and the more beneficial of the two rolls are applied. (1 Juice)
[Requires Lesser Boost] Lesser Curse (1 AP) - The next time a unit rolls for an action (attack or spell), the results are rolled twice, and the less beneficial of the two rolls are applied. (1 Juice)
[Requires Lesser Boost] Multi-target (1 AP) - Caster can apply a lesser or greater boost or curse to one additional target for each level the caster has. (1 Juice/target + Cost of all boosts/curses)
[Requires Lesser Boost] Greater Boost (1 AP) - The next time a unit would roll for an action (attack or spell), use the maximum possible result for the dice instead. (4 Juice)
[Requires Lesser Curse] Greater Curse (1 AP) - The next time a unit would roll for an action (attack or spell), use the minimum possible result for the dice instead. (4 Juice)
[Requires Multi-target] Lucky Streak (1 AP) - Caster can stack multiple boosts or curses on a given unit, up to 1 boost or curse for each level the caster has. (1 Juice/stack + Cost of all boosts/curses)
[Requires Greater Boost, Multi-target] Boost Side (1 AP) - All units on this side (no matter where they are) gain a Lesser Boost, if they do not already have a boost. This spell can be paid for over multiple turns, but once begun, the caster can cast no other spell until it completes or the caster cancels it. Since newly-popped units are counted each turn, the cost of the spell may increase each turn. Units that croak will likewise decrease the cost. Constructs and Uncroaked DO count towards the totals. (1 Juice / 2 units)
[Requires Greater Boost, Greater Curse] Increase Pop Rate (1 AP) - A Random Encounter is generated with 4 hexes of the caster. (10 Juice, 25 Karma)
[Requires Increase Pop Rate] Control Spawn (1 AP) - A Random Friendly Beast or Friendly Inhuman is generated with 4 hexes of the caster. (25 Juice, 50 Karma)

Boost/Curse interaction: Boosts and Curses can cancel each other out. A Lesser Boost will negate a Lesser Curse, and vise versa. Greater Boosts and Curses behave similarly. A Greater Boost can negate up to 5 Lesser Curses, and a Greater Curse can negate up to 5 Lesser Boosts at a time. A Lesser Boost/Curse has no effect on an existing Greater Boost/Curse.

Examples:

Onni Fortuna casts a 4 Lesser Boosts using Lucky Streak and Multi-target on two garrison archers. This costs her 8 Juice (8 L.Boosts) + 8 Juice (8 Stacked Spells) + 2 Juice (2 Targets) = 18 Juice.
Each garrison archer now has (Lesser Boost:4).

Onni, worried about her side's Karma, also casts a stacked Greater Curse on herself. (Greater Curse:4)

A barbarian warrior enters the hex, and the garrison archers fire at him.

Garrison Archer 1 rolls 2d6 twice: 5 and 11. They keep the 11, and the side loses 6 Karma, putting it at -6. The unit now has (Lesser Boost:3).
Garrison Archer 1 rolls 2d6 twice: 7 and 8. They keep the 8, and the side loses 1 Karma, putting it at -7. The unit now has (Lesser Boost:3).

Onni casts a Greater Curse at the Barbarian as well, for 4 Juice.

The barbarian Attacks Archer 1, and rolls 2d6: 9. Their roll is treated as a 2, and the side loses 7 Karma, putting it at -14. The Greater Curse is gone.

The next round, Onni is concerned about the negative Karma her side has accumulated, so she uses her Fire and Quick-shot against the barbarian.
Since Onni is Level 7, both rolls would normally be maxed. However, since she's under the effects of a Greater Curse, the shots get the minimum result instead, and Onni rolls to see the effect on Karma. She rolls a 6 and a 10, and her side's Karma is increased by (4 + 8) = 12 points, putting it at -2.

The Barbarian attacks Archer 1, and rolls a 6. The storyteller decides to change this to an 8, and eliminates the rest of the side's negative Karma.
Last edited by MarbitChow on Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:27 am

This seems much more fair, and about as perfect as a game can get in terms of replicating the effects of Luckamancy without having the "physics/Fate" of Erfworld that is impossible to replicate.
I think we could eventually get into boosts/curses that deal with more obscure topics (like the hypothesized curse on Wanda's fall probabilities) but this is a good baseline for a 1st level caster
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:37 am

And, so you don't have to sift through the previous 3 pages, here are the rest of the rules, reposted:

Request For Feedback - New Rules - Construct/Mount Abilities

Additional Abilities
[Requires Mount] Stable (0.5 AP): Mount gains +4 Defense bonus vs. Dismounting attacks. Can be purchased more than once.
[Requires Mount] Swift (0.5 AP): Mount gains +2{+2} Move. Can be purchased more than once.
[Requires Mount] Leaper (1 AP): Mount gains Agile special.
[Requires Mount] Imprinted (1 AP): Select an unit (the 'Imprinted Rider'). Mount gains +4 Combat / +4 Defense while that unit is it's rider. If the imprinted rider is killed, another rider can be imprinted after spending 2 Turns with the mount.
[Requires Mount, Imprinted] Dressage (1 AP): When riden by its Imprinted Rider, mount can split its move, moving before and after the rider acts.
[Requires Level 4, Mount] Destrier (1 AP): Grants Transport(1)

[Requires Construct] Agility (1 AP): Construct gains Agile special.
[Requires Construct] Explody (1 AP): Construct gains Explode, which allows the unit to spend an action to destroy itself and do 2d6 damage to all adjacent units. Damage ignores defense. (Construct does not explode if destroyed by any other means..)
[Requires Construct, Explody] Unstable (1 AP): If construct is destroyed, it does 2d6 damage to all adjacent units. Damage ignores defense. Can be triggered by the automatic destruction caused by Explode.
[Requires Construct] Speedy (1 AP): Construct gains +4{+0} Move.
[Requires Construct] Statuesque (0 AP): Construct cannot leave the hex it is created in. Construct only requires 1/2 the normal juice to create.

Request For Feedback - New Rules - Structures; Siege Equipment

City Structures
All City Structures have Structure Points (SP), which are similar to Hits for units. An attack must specify that it does Structural Damage in order to damage a structure's SP.

Immobile Structures
Gate: A city gate has a base 20 SP, +10 SP / City Level.
    (opening, closing, and barring gate details pending.)
Walls: Each 4-square section of wall has a base 25 SP, +25 SP / City Level. The top of the wall is considered Elevation Level 1.
Defensive Tower: A defensive tower has 20 SP, +20 SP / City Level. The top of the wall is considered Elevation Level 2.
Spell Tower: A spell tower has 20 SP, +20 SP / City Level. The top of the wall is considered Elevation Level 2. A city can only have 1 spell tower.
    Any offensive spell can be stored in a Spell tower. Each tower can store 2 spells, +1 per City Level. All spell effects are based on the Caster's stats at the time of casting.
    Stored spells can only target flying units. Any caster or unit with Leadership can trigger the spells.
    All Fire attacks against Flying units made by a Caster from a spell tower do an additional +1d6 / City Level.

Structure Enhancements
Crenelations (Walls, Towers): Units at the edge of the wall receive +4 cover bonus.
Arrow Slits (Walls, Towers): Units behind Arrow Slits receive +10 cover bonus, but -1 Elevation Level (minimum 0 Elevation).

Mobile Structures
All mobile structures require operators. Beasts, Mounts and Inhuman units cannot be operators. Mobile structures cannot be placed on Mounts or Transports. Mobile structures can be popped like units.

Heavy Ballista (4 UP, 18 SP): Requires 2 units or 1 Heavy Unit to operate. Grants Fire for [Combat/2 + 4d6 OR 2d6 Structural Damage]. Move 4{4}.
Catapault (4 UP, 12 SP): Requires 2 units to operate. Grants Fire for [3d6 normal + 1d6 that ignores defense OR 2d6 Structural Damage]. Move 4{4}.
Cauldron (4 UP, 24 SP): Requires 4 units to move. Requires 2 units to pour. Can only be used once every 2 rounds. Inflicts 4d6 to all units in 2x2 square in front of it. Ignores defense. Move 4{4}.
Assault Tower (8 UP, 35 SP): Requires 4 units to operate. The Top of the Assault Tower is considered Elevation Level 1. Unless the tower has Arrow Slits, operator Units inside the tower are completely concealed, and do not have RLOS on the field. Max 4 units inside, 4 units on top. Move 4{4}.
Covered Ram (4 UP, 20 SP): Requires 4 units to operate. Units only have RLOS on units of the same elevation. Grants Attack for 2d6 Structural Damage. Move 4{4}.
Ram (2 UP, 10 SP): Requires 4 units to operate. Grants Attack for 2d6 Structural Damage. Move 6{4}.

Equipment
Mining Pick: Grants Attack for d6 Structural Damage.

Structure Destruction
Destroying a gate simply makes the gate squares passable.
Destroying a 4-square section of wall will collapse the 4 squares above it, 2 squares in. Any non-flying units standing there will fall. (Falling damage is a hidden mechanic.)
Destroying a tower (mobile or otherwise) will collapse the entire tower. Any non-flying units standing there will fall.
Units that are underneath the collapsing structures also take falling damage, exactly as if they had been standing in the squares above them.

Request For Feedback - New Rules - City Management; Additional Abilities:Paragon, Regent; Special:Elite

City Management
By default, cities produce UP and Shmuckers based on their level. Capital cities produce an additional +100 shmuckers / level.

    City Level 1 : 1 UP, 100 Shmuckers
    City Level 2 : 2 UP, 400 Shmuckers
    City Level 3 : 4 UP, 900 Shmuckers
    City Level 4 : 8 UP, 1600 Shmuckers
    City Level 5 : 16 UP, 2500 Shmuckers
A city that does not have a Manager suffers a -25% Shmuckers penalty each turn.

Manager : Any unit with leadership can be designated Manager of a city. In order for the city to get the bonus for a manager, the unit must be in the city at either the start or the end of the turn. A city cannot have more than 1 Manager designated each turn.

Additional Abilities

[Requires Non-Caster] Regent (1 AP) : A city managed by this unit generates an additional 10% Shmuckers.
[Requires Level 4, Regent] Comptroller (1 AP) : A city managed by this unit generates +100 Shmuckers / Level. This bonus is added after the bonus for Regent.
[Requires Level 4, Regent] Logistician (1 AP) : A city managed by this unit generates +0.5 UP / Level.

[Requires Level 4, Non-Caster] Paragon (1 AP) : All units of the same build as this unit (Warrior, Spearman, Archer, or Flyer) in this unit's stack get +1 Combat / +1 Defense Inspiration Bonus.
[Requires Paragon, Leadership] Trainer(1 AP) : Each turn, a trainer can grant +1 Training XP to up to 8 units of the same build as the Trainer. A trainer must be at least 2 levels higher than any unit he trains.
[Requires Paragon, Well-Protected] Guardian (1 AP) : Unit gains an additional +4 Defense. Paragon Inspiration Bonus increases to +2 Defense.
[Requires Paragon, Well-Armed] Berserker (1 AP) : Unit gains an additional +4 Combat. Paragon Inspiration Bonus increases to +2 Combat.
[Requires Paragon, Regent] Inspiration(1 AP) : While this unit is a Manager, any unit of the same build as this unit that is popped in this city gains the Elite special.
[Requires Trainer] Instructor(1 AP) : An Instructor can train an additional 8 units each turn.

Training XP is not available to any units on any turn in which Combat XP is awarded.

Specials

Elite: Unit gainst +1 Combat, +2 Defense, and +5 Hits.

Request For Feedback - New Rules - Healmancy

The next rules revision is still some time away (we'll playtest at least one more scenario with the current rules set), but I wanted to start getting feedback on changes I'd like to make. I'll start with a revised Healmancy. The Hits on mounts and heavy bodyguards demonstrate that hits can get much higher than the original Healmancy was created to deal with, and potions needed a bit more work. Wards and Healing scale with level now, so that new spells grant extra ability instead of just more healing/protection. Since I think that Wards should be preparation instead of in-combat, I've nerfed them a bit by requiring the target to be adjacent, so they don't act like permanent HP Buffs. Now that Status effects are more common, I've given the Healmancer the ability to remove them at range and protect against them. Finally, since Healers don't always have to use their abilities to help, I've added some offense into the mix, but based it on the Caster's level and the target's health instead of the Caster's Combat score. Let me know what you think.

Once these rules go into effect, Triage and Junetta will be able to reselect spell choices but stats will remain the same.

Healmancy
Wards last until all granted damage has been absorbed. Only 1 Ward can be in effect on a target at a time. If target receives a ward when a ward is already in place, target chooses which ward remains.
Bonus: Caster who specializes in Healmancy can create a Potion for any single-target healing or warding Healmancy spell they know. Potions cost 8x the spell's casting cost in Juice. This cost can be paid for over multiple turns.

Revitalize - Heal up to (8 * Caster Level) Hits to 1 target (1 Juice / 8 Hits)
[Requires Revitalize] Remove Status (1 AP) - Removes a single Negative Status Effect of Caster's choice on 1 Target (5 Juice)
[Requires Revitalize] Revitalize Group (1 AP) - Heal up to (4 * Caster Level) Hits to each of up to 3 adjacent targets (1 Juice / 8 Hits plus 2 Juice / Target)
[Requries Revitalize] Burnout (1 AP) - Caster reduces their current and maximum Hits by gaining a -1 Hit Burnout modifier and immediately gains 4 Juice. Caster can exceed their normal maximum Juice. Burnout modifiers last until the start of the next turn. Burnout does not require an action to use. Juice gained from Burnout must be immediately applied to a spell, and cannot be used for potion creation.
[Requires Revitalize] Damage Ward (1 AP) - Absorbs up to (4 * Caster Level) damage on 1 Adjacent target. (1 Juice / 4 Hits)
[Requires Revitalize] Malpractice (1 AP) - Inflicts (d6 * Caster Level) Hits to 1 Wounded Target. Damage ignores defense. (1 Juice / d6 inflicted)
[Requires Revitalize Group] Reset (1 AP) - Completely heal a single target and remove all Negative Status Effects. (10 Juice)
[Requires Malpractice] To The Pain (1 AP) - Stuns 1 Wounded Target for 2 Rounds. (6 Juice)
[Requires Damage Ward] Shatter Ward (1 AP) - Completely removes a Ward from a single target. (3 Juice)
[Requires Reset] Mass Revitalize (1 AP) - Heal up to 4 * Caster Level Hits to each of any number of targets in the hex. (1 Juice / 8 Hits plus 2 Juice / Target)
[Requires Damage Ward, Remove Status] Status Ward (1 AP) - Negates 1 Negative Status Effect per 2 caster levels on 1 Adjacent target. (4 Juice / Status Effect)
[Requires Status Ward] Hardened Ward (1 AP) - Absorbs up to 4 * Caster Level Damage on 1 Adjacent target. While warded, target is immune to Negative Status Effects. (16 Juice + 1 Juice / 4 Hits)
[Requires Mass Revitalize] Reset Hex (1 AP) - Completely heal and remove all Negative Status Effects from any selected units on the caster’s side. (8 Juice / Target)
[Requires To The Pain] Euthanasia (1 AP) - Kills 1 Wounded Target that has less than half their total Hits remaining. (1 Juice / 2 Remaining Hits)

Request For Feedback - New Rules - Dollamancy

Dollamancy
All Accessories are created in the Dollamancer's square.
Bonus: Caster who specializes in Dollamancy can choose to spend Juice instead of a charge for any Dollamancy Accessory they have created and equipped. Juice cost is 1/2 the cost required for 1 charge in the item creation. Caster can also create Rainments, allowing them to change their (or other units') clothing each turn.

Craft Minor Accessory - Allows caster to create a standard minor Accessory (see below).
[Requires Craft Minor Accessory, Level 4] Craft Accessory (1 AP) - Allows caster to create a regular Accessory (see below). Caster also gains a custom Minor Accessory that they can create.
[Requires Craft Accessory, Level 8] Craft Major Accessory (1 AP) - Allows caster to create a major Accessory (see below). Caster also gains a custom Accessory that they can create.
[Requires Craft Minor Item] Craft Lesser Golem (1 AP) - Allows caster to create Lesser Golem (treat as Warrior with 1 AP and Construct special). (16 Juice)
[Requires Craft Lesser Golem] Repair Golem (0.5 AP) - Allows caster to partially or fully repair a damaged Golem. The caster can control exactly how much is repaired. (1 Juice / 4 Hits repaired)
[Requires Craft Lesser Golem] War-Gamer (0.5 AP) - All Constructs created by this caster and stacked with this caster gain +1 Combat / +1 Defense for each level this caster has.
[Requires Craft Lesser Golem, Level 4] Craft Golem (1 AP) - Allows caster to create Golem (treat as Level 2 Warrior with the Construct specials). (32 Juice)
[Requires Craft Golem] Craft Greater Golem (1 AP) - Allows caster to create Greater Golem (treat as Level 3 Warrior or Spearman with the Construct special). (48 Juice)
[Requires Craft Greater Golem] Craft Golem Mount (1 AP) - Allows caster to create Golem Mount (treat as Level 2 Warrior or Spearman with the Heavy*, Mount and Construct specials). (64 Juice)

Accessories are items that are have a limited number of charges or uses. If the item possesses charges, the item vanishes when the last charge is consumed and the effect that the item grants expires. If the effect has a duration, the item must be worn until the duration expires. Removing it prior to that will cancel the effect, and if the item has no more charges remaining, it will vanish immediately. If the item has uses, the number of uses are restored to full at the beginning of the side’s Turn. All accessories must be equipped to be used. Equipping any item requires 1 Action.

Minor Accessories
    Cloak : Negate Fire (1 Charge) (8 Juice)
    Cloak : Negate Attack/Strike (1 Charge) (8 Juice)
    Cloak : Negate Hiya/Hoboken (1 Charge) (8 Juice)
    Throwing Spear : Requires Strike. Grants Fire (1 Charge) limited 8 square range** (8 Juice)
    Balanced Dagger : Requires Attack. Grants Fire (1 Charge) limited 6 square range** (5 Juice)
    Warpaint : Grants +1 Combat Signamancy Bonus to Adjacent Unit until the start of their next Turn (1 Charge) (8 Juice)
    Lil’ Bag O’ Rocks : Requires Construct. Grants Fire (5 Charges)
Accessories
    Cloak : Negate Shockamancy (1 Charge) (16 Juice)
    Cloak : Negate Fire/Attack/Strike (1 Charge) (12 Juice)
    Blaster : Grants Hoboken (Max 1 Charge / Level) (6 Juice / Charge)
    Knight Cap : Stores 1 Potion, allows Unit to consume potion as a Free Action. Potion cannot be removed from Cap once created. Potion and Cap are destroyed upon use. (12 Juice + Potion)
    Spear Quiver : Requires Strike. Grants Fire (3 Charge) limited 8 square range** (28 Juice)
    Dagger Sash : Requires Attack. Grants Fire (6 Charge) limited 6 square range** (32 Juice)
    Fleet Boots : Grants Agility for 1 Round (Max 1 Charge / 2 Levels)
    Big Bag O’ Rocks : Requires Construct, Siege. Grants Range 8 to Siege attacks.

Major Accessories
    Jet Pack : Grants Flying until the start of the unit’s next Turn (1 Charge) (24 Juice)
    Thinking Cap : Grants Immunity to Foolamancy until the start of the unit’s next Turn (1 Charge) (24 Juice)
    Net Gun : Grants ability to Capture adjacent unit (1 Charge) (24 Juice)
    Master Blaster : Grants Hoboken (X Uses / Turn) (48 Juice / Use) (Max 3 uses/Turn)
    Stealth Cloak : Grants Invisibility to Unit as long as it remains motionless (1 Use / Turn) (48 Juice)
    Party Hat : Stores 2 Potions, allows Unit to consume either potion as a Free Action. Potions cannot be removed from Party Hat once created. Party Cap is destroyed once both potions are consumed. (36 Juice + Potions)
* - Heavy is a free special, and does not consume any AP the unit is otherwise entitled to.
** - Elevation counts as 2 squares / level. Normal flight elevation is 2 levels up.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:17 pm

A thought occurs. What if Statuesque meant the construct couldn't leave the SQUARE it was created in, and only cost 1/4 the Juice? And you had a Guardian special that does what Statuesque does now?
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:27 pm

0beron wrote:A thought occurs. What if Statuesque meant the construct couldn't leave the SQUARE it was created in, and only cost 1/4 the Juice? And you had a Guardian special that does what Statuesque does now?
Nope. You could create an immobile Lesser construct w/ Well-armed, give it a bag of rocks (which appears to be missing a Juice cost), and crank out 3 dozen 'archer' type units for your gate and towers for almost half the cost, with no real down-sides. Additionally, abilities like Agility, Explody, etc. would be relatively useless, and traps (which is what an explody immobile lesser construct would be) are really more the domain of dirtamancy than dollamancy.

Garrison vs. non-garrison is supported in the comic, so 'garrison' versions of constructs make sense, but I don't really see the benefit of making constructs even cheaper by giving them a limitation that's not really very limiting, ultimately.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:29 pm

I realized a potential unwanted consequence for redoing Healomancy to be per Caster level: what happens if, say, a level 8 Croakamancer also takes Revitalize at level 9? Would he/she now have the max healing ability of a level 9 healomancer?

I also still haven't gotten around to analysing juice costs, though I'm trying to think of how I'd like to go about that.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:41 pm

Given recent buffs to healing and hits will Shockamancy be getting some changes in the future?
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:49 pm

Well I figured the totally stationary version would also be restricted to lesser golems, like agile. Basically, my goal was do the same thing Bill did with his uncroaked, make a line of weak units that the enemy must destroy before they move past. (so I'd give them defensive specials) But you point out other ways it could be abused, fair point.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:14 pm

WaterMonkey314 wrote:I realized a potential unwanted consequence for redoing Healomancy to be per Caster level: what happens if, say, a level 8 Croakamancer also takes Revitalize at level 9? Would he/she now have the max healing ability of a level 9 healomancer?
I'm okay with that. Wanda was shown to be very good at non-croakamancy spells, and grabbing a low-level Heal spell means that the caster is giving up access to a high-level spell, so that low-level spell should be valuable. And healamancers now are significantly more than just restore-HP units, so a croakamancer being able to heal isn't horribly unbalancing (especially since they still can't heal uncroaked).

ETheBoyce wrote:Given recent buffs to healing and hits will Shockamancy be getting some changes in the future?
I'd like to play test Shockamancy a bit more. Ickypron is doing significant damage against multiple opponents AND stunning them. William is more effective than you against a single, low-defense target, non-dodging target, but no other build has your stopping power. I might bump up Hobobarbie and 4Chan to 2d6, and maybe increase the area of effect, but all in all, you've got one of the deadliest characters out there. If I were to adjust anything, the juice costs of the spells would be the most likely thing to change; they might be a bit high at present. But all of those are minor tweaks more than anything, and don't require a complete rules rewrite to accomplish.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Nnelg » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:12 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
WaterMonkey314 wrote:I realized a potential unwanted consequence for redoing Healomancy to be per Caster level: what happens if, say, a level 8 Croakamancer also takes Revitalize at level 9? Would he/she now have the max healing ability of a level 9 healomancer?
I'm okay with that. Wanda was shown to be very good at non-croakamancy spells, and grabbing a low-level Heal spell means that the caster is giving up access to a high-level spell, so that low-level spell should be valuable. And healamancers now are significantly more than just restore-HP units, so a croakamancer being able to heal isn't horribly unbalancing (especially since they still can't heal uncroaked).

Perhaps, instead of level, you use the amount of AP spent on Healomancy spells or caster-related abilities (like juicy). This would mean that a high-level non-healomancer who decides to take the base spell will still cast it better than a 1st level healomancer, but not nearly as good as one of the same level.


Personally, I'm sad about the direction the Luckamancy is going. I thought it was more fun to mess around directly with the dice, so you're still gamboling about its effect. The new-version spells seem rather lackluster and underpowered by comparison.

Besides, in-comic the luck doesn't always come from the caster's side...
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:30 pm

Nnelg wrote:Perhaps, instead of level, you use the amount of AP spent on Healomancy spells or caster-related abilities (like juicy). This would mean that a high-level non-healomancer who decides to take the base spell will still cast it better than a 1st level healomancer, but not nearly as good as one of the same level.
Marbit just explained why that is a bad idea. It's balanced the way it is.

Nnelg wrote:Personally, I'm sad about the direction the Luckamancy is going....Besides, in-comic the luck doesn't always come from the caster's side...
Like I alluded to above, there are schools which are effectively impossible to implement given the whole "fate" idea. Predictamancy for example is off the charts, and Luckamancy is close behind. The idea of Karma comes pretty close. It is basically a tally of how much you side has "mucked" with Fate. Do you have a suggestion that simulates Luckamancy better than Marbit in a game which can't have actual "fate"?
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:44 pm

Nnelg, I appreciate the feedback. 0beron touched on a few points, but I'd like to expound a bit more.

Nnelg wrote:Perhaps, instead of level, you use the amount of AP spent on Healomancy spells or caster-related abilities (like juicy). This would mean that a high-level non-healomancer who decides to take the base spell will still cast it better than a 1st level healomancer, but not nearly as good as one of the same level.
If you restrict it too much, its not worth taking at all. At higher levels, the ability to heal 4-8 points isn't worth nearly as much as anything else that caster could probably do. Low-juice spells that don't do much aren't as valuable as, say, drinking a potion to regain Juice and use the big guns next round would be. Casters don't appear to mix their spell selections much, and level 8 or 9 is going to be pretty much max level, thanks to exponentially-increasing XP costs. Being able to heal 8 Hits vs. grabbing Juicy for more Juice, or Mighty Blow for more combat, etc. doesn't seem comparable.

Nnelg wrote:Personally, I'm sad about the direction the Luckamancy is going. I thought it was more fun to mess around directly with the dice, so you're still gamboling about its effect. The new-version spells seem rather lackluster and underpowered by comparison. Besides, in-comic the luck doesn't always come from the caster's side...
I'm trying to find a build where the casters have tactical choices to make, and many of the effects that were in the original version - things like counter-spells and fumbles - aren't as necessary due to bodyguards, cloaks, and mounts (in addition to not appearing in the comic at all). The current system doesn't use random damage or critical hits, which would be two additional areas that Luckamancy could influence, but I don't really want to overhaul the entire rule system just for a single caster class.

I want the Luckamancer to be able to sway fights and do cool luck-related stuff. Greater Boost is like a one-shot +5 (or better!) Combat buff, and Greater Curse is a focused 1-shot Defense buff that applies to every unit in the hex. Both can be incredibly powerful, and simply giving a maxed die or two to the enemy units makes it too easy to not have to worry about the down-side. I'm open to suggestions about cool luck-based spell effects (and being able to 'force' random encounters and friendly units seem like decent options). Having fun is the ultimate goal; game balance plus feedback from the actual luckamancer ultimately has the most sway over how I'll decide to implement this.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Nnelg » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:49 pm

0beron wrote:
Nnelg wrote:Personally, I'm sad about the direction the Luckamancy is going....Besides, in-comic the luck doesn't always come from the caster's side...
Like I alluded to above, there are schools which are effectively impossible to implement given the whole "fate" idea. Predictamancy for example is off the charts, and Luckamancy is close behind. The idea of Karma comes pretty close. It is basically a tally of how much you side has "mucked" with Fate. Do you have a suggestion that simulates Luckamancy better than Marbit in a game which can't have actual "fate"?

MarbitChow wrote:
Nnelg wrote:Personally, I'm sad about the direction the Luckamancy is going. I thought it was more fun to mess around directly with the dice, so you're still gamboling about its effect. The new-version spells seem rather lackluster and underpowered by comparison. Besides, in-comic the luck doesn't always come from the caster's side...
I'm trying to find a build where the casters have tactical choices to make, and many of the effects that were in the original version - things like counter-spells and fumbles - aren't as necessary due to bodyguards, cloaks, and mounts (in addition to not appearing in the comic at all). The current system doesn't use random damage or critical hits, which would be two additional areas that Luckamancy could influence, but I don't really want to overhaul the entire rule system just for a single caster class.

I want the Luckamancer to be able to sway fights and do cool luck-related stuff. Greater Boost is like a one-shot +5 (or better!) Combat buff, and Greater Curse is a focused 1-shot Defense buff that applies to every unit in the hex. Both can be incredibly powerful, and simply giving a maxed die or two to the enemy units makes it too easy to not have to worry about the down-side. I'm open to suggestions about cool luck-based spell effects (and being able to 'force' random encounters and friendly units seem like decent options). Having fun is the ultimate goal; game balance plus feedback from the actual luckamancer ultimately has the most sway over how I'll decide to implement this.

Right, I understand. And I know this isn't exactly my focus, (I should be more concerned about how the Foolamancy works) it's just that I find how luckamancy's supposed to "steal" the results to be a very interesting topic.

For instance, if you turned a die roll into an automatic 6, why don't you just reroll the next 6 irregardless of who rolled it? And there's a lot of different forms a luck buff could take. For instance, I made a list of all the ideas I came up with in just an hour or two:

Spoiler: show
Clevermancy (Luckamancy)
Bonus: Caster who specializes in Luckamancy rolls twice and chooses the result, any time he rolls dice.

Roll the Bones - The next die the target unit rolls counts as a six. Afterwards, the next unit (of any side) to roll a six must reroll their result. Multiple rerolls can stack up, however no unit will be forced to reroll a reroll. If the unit rolls more than one die at once, only one counts as a six; the rest must still be rolled. Up to one 1 additional target per 2 caster levels, rounding down. (1 Juice/Target)
[Requires Roll the Bones] Dem Bones (1 AP) - Like Roll the Bones, but the effect only triggers if the target unit rolls lower than a specific number, specified by the caster at casting time. Also, only one target allowed. (1 Juice)
[Requires Roll the Bones] Spill the Salt (1 AP) - Like Roll the Bones but using 1 instead of 6. (2 Juice)
[Requires Dem Bones, Spill the Salt] Rushin' Roulette (1 AP) - Until the caster's next action, all rolls by units in the same hex and of the same side as the caster of a 1 count as 6's, and all rolls by units of non-allied sides in the same hex of a 6 count as 1's. (20 Juice)
[Requires Roll the Bones] Crooked Die (1 AP) - The target unit rolls its next attack twice, and uses the highest or the lowest -which one is determined by the caster at casting. (2 Juice)
[Requires Crooked Die] Ace in the Hole (1 AP) - The next time the target rolls a 1 on the attack, it rerolls its attack and the unit's target must reroll its next 6. (4 Juice)
[Requires Roll the Bones] Alea Iacta Est (1 AP) - The target's next five attacks are pre-rolled, and assigned in the order of the caster's choice. (4 Juice)
[Requires Roll the Bones] Luck Ward (1 AP) - The target is immune to the negative backlash of Roll the Bones and Dem Bones. Lasts 3 turns. (10 Juice)
[Requires Alea Iacta Est, Luck Ward] Through the Looking Glass (1 AP) - Two units are targeted. The next three attacks of each are pre-rolled and switched around at the caster's discretion. (8 Juice)
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:42 pm

There are a lot of good ideas here, but most of the ideas you've suggested would work much better in a table-top environment, where players and GM are all gathered around and reacting in real-time. The design guidelines I've been informally following lead me towards certain preferences. For example, there's already a large amount of bookkeeping in this game. Each turn, I will typically make a number of mistakes while resolving the turn results. Any additional overhead means I'm even more likely to make errors, so I lean towards trying to find a few mechanics that I can resolve fairly easily. I'd like to avoid having several different mechanics that require me to look up which method I'm using to change the outcome of a die roll each time the spell is cast.

Nnelg wrote:For instance, if you turned a die roll into an automatic 6, why don't you just reroll the next 6 irregardless of who rolled it?
I'll often discover that I made an error, which requires me to correct a sequence of events; for example, rolling an attack for a unit that has been killed in a previous phase. If that unit's roll is no longer valid, then I'll need to scan forward to find the next result that might be changed, which could be the difference between a unit that was killed and still alive. Finding an error might require me to cascade changes forward, confusing the resolution even further. I prefer systems where individual results can't impact other rolls and results, so that I can double check each result independently. Unit position and health are the only factors I currently need to track sequentially; I'd prefer to avoid adding additional sequence-specific factors that I've got to track.

Nnelg wrote:... Rushin' Roulette (1 AP) - Until the caster's next action, all rolls by units in the same hex and of the same side as the caster of a 1 count as 6's, and all rolls by units of non-allied sides in the same hex of a 6 count as 1's. (20 Juice)
This acts as a side-wise buff/debuff, equal to about a +2 Combat / +2 Defense bonus to all units on the player's side. Since players can delay their actions, a caster could in theory simply delay to keep the spell running. This is also highly prone to me forgetting that the spell is in effect, and remembering which 1s become 6s and which 6s become 1s.

Nnelg wrote:...Bonus: Caster who specializes in Luckamancy rolls twice and chooses the result, any time he rolls dice. ...The target's next five attacks are pre-rolled, and assigned in the order of the caster's choice. (4 Juice)
Any action that requires player feedback before it's resolved will not be implemented. The game runs slowly enough as it is. Introducing something like this guarantees a bottleneck.

Nnelg wrote:Luck Ward (1 AP) - The target is immune to the negative backlash of Roll the Bones and Dem Bones. Lasts 3 turns. (10 Juice)
I'm very glad you offered this as a suggestion. More of the spell categories should be able to protect themselves. Luckamancy should have a Luck Ward. Shockamancy should have a Shock Ward. Perhaps other schools as well. I want to think about this a bit more.

-----

What about something like a "dice theft" mechanic: cast a spell on a unit, and as long as that spell is in effect, every combat action they take gets a -1d6, and stores a bonus +1d6 that the caster can use later, with max dice based on their level?
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby WhirdCheese » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:56 pm

I do like the dice theft idea. And the ward idea. I'm wondering how many spells you could get out of a dice theft mechanic?
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Nnelg » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:26 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
Nnelg wrote:...Bonus: Caster who specializes in Luckamancy rolls twice and chooses the result, any time he rolls dice. ...The target's next five attacks are pre-rolled, and assigned in the order of the caster's choice. (4 Juice)
Any action that requires player feedback before it's resolved will not be implemented. The game runs slowly enough as it is. Introducing something like this guarantees a bottleneck.

-----

What about something like a "dice theft" mechanic: cast a spell on a unit, and as long as that spell is in effect, every combat action they take gets a -1d6, and stores a bonus +1d6 that the caster can use later, with max dice based on their level?

Well, for the specific cases of pre-rolling or roll twice & choose, you could just assume that you take the best/worst or move the best/worst forwards (depending on if you target friends or enemies). You could even reword the spell such that the caster needs to choose from which of those two cases he wants before casting.

Hm, the bonus/penalty luck dice seems like a nice idea too. Maybe the luckamancer has a running total of "spare luck" that's floating around. Too much of it in either direction could accidentally discharge at random, even.


The only other thing I'll say is that I think there should be a way for higher-level Luckamancers to take their luck directly from the enemy. Of course, it doesn't have to be cheap or easy...
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:11 pm

Luckamancy revision, version 2.1.

Clevermancy (Luckamancy)
Luckamancy boosts and curses last until used, and can persist over multiple turns if not used. Only one of Lesser Boost, Lesser Curse, Greater Boost or Greater Curse can be on a unit at a time.
Bonus: Caster who specializes in Luckamancy rolls twice when using Fire actions or casting Shockamancy spells (but not scrolls), taking the better of the two rolls. At 4th level, all Fire action and Shockamancy spell rolls are automatically maxed instead. This does not modify the side's Karma.

Lesser Boost/Curse - The next time a unit rolls for an action (attack or spell), the results are rolled twice, and the more beneficial (boost) or less beneficial (curse) of the two rolls are applied. (1 Juice)
[Requires Lesser Boost/Curse] Multi-Target (0.5 AP) - Caster can apply a lesser or greater boost or curse to one additional target for each level the caster has. (1 Juice/target + Cost of all boosts/curses)
[Requires Lesser Boost/Curse] Luck Ward (0.5 AP) - Any hostile actions that directly target the caster cannot be modified by Karma.
[Requires Lesser Boost/Curse] Luck Thief (1 AP) - The next action the target takes that requires a dice roll uses one less d6 to resolve. Caster gains a "d6" token. Caster can have as many "d6" tokens as they have levels. Caster can choose to spend a "d6" token to add an additional 1d6 to any attack sequence or spell that uses at least 1d6 to resolve. (1 Juice + 5 Karma)
[Requires Luck Thief] Lucky Charm (0.5 AP) - Caster can transfer any number of their "d6" tokens to another unit. (5 Juice + 10 Karma + 5 Karma/token)
[Requires Multi-Target] Lucky Streak (0.5 AP) - Caster can stack multiple boosts or curses on a given unit, up to 1 boost or curse for each level the caster has. (1 Juice/stack + Cost of all boosts/curses)
[Requires [Lucky Streak] Greater Boost/Curse (1 AP) - The next time a unit would roll for an action (attack or spell), use the maximum (boost) or minimum (curse) possible result for the dice instead. (4 Juice)
[Requires Greater Boost/Curse] Boost Side (1 AP) - All units on this side (no matter where they are) gain a Lesser Boost, if they do not already have a boost. This spell can be paid for over multiple turns, but once begun, the caster can cast no other spell until it completes or the caster cancels it. Since newly-popped units are counted each turn, the cost of the spell may increase each turn. Units that croak will likewise decrease the cost. Constructs and Uncroaked DO count towards the totals. (1 Juice / 2 units)
[Requires Greater Boost/Curse] Increase Pop Rate (1 AP) - A Random Encounter is generated with 4 hexes of the caster. (10 Juice, 25 Karma)
[Requires Increase Pop Rate] Control Spawn (1 AP) - A Random Friendly Beast or Friendly Inhuman is generated with 4 hexes of the caster. (25 Juice, 50 Karma)

Boost/Curse interaction: Boosts and Curses can cancel each other out. A Lesser Boost will negate a Lesser Curse, and vise versa. Greater Boosts and Curses behave similarly. A Greater Boost can negate up to 5 Lesser Curses, and a Greater Curse can negate up to 5 Lesser Boosts at a time. A Lesser Boost/Curse has no effect on an existing Greater Boost/Curse.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Nnelg » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:40 pm

MarbitChow wrote:[Requires Lesser Boost/Curse] Luck Ward (0.5 AP) - Any hostile actions that directly target the caster cannot be modified by Karma.

The caster or the target? Also, I meant for the Luck Ward to be a sort of Anti-Karma sort of thing for both attack and defence. Something you'd cast on your most important units, such that you could control whom gets hit by the backlash better.
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