Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

[Exate]

I'd disagree with that as a city doesn't have the finesse a pair of hands does in regards to making smaller items. Bigger things, like the siege engines, money would be needed in addition to loose materials to cover the "labour" costs.

You'd disagree with what- that cities can produce anything someone who Fabricates can? Considering that we know from the text updates that cities can produce extra equipment (as that's one of the things city management reduces costs for), it seems reasonable enough to me.

As far as popping siege engines goes, we have a description of how they work from one of the Wanda updates- Tommy described it to her. That should be enough to model a basic system off. Defense engines could be handled in several ways; treated as units and then done just like siege engines; abstracted into a city feature as one of the ways that it provides bonus stats to men defending it if you buy the right perks; or purchased directly for Schmuckers with no build time or loose materials required. We really don't need the complexity of separate production queues.

[0beron]

You think another production queue is complex? That's about the easiest way to handle it.
Tommy's explanation reveals that they do indeed pop, and are considered items rather than units. Combined with Parson's explanation of equipment costing something to produce, I think the production queue idea works perfectly. You can wait to build it with Loose Materials over time, or spend schmuckers to complete it faster. Heck we could even wrap the equipment into that as well and have the city produce it from Loose Materials own it's own if ordered. So on any given turn, a City could be ordered to produce Equipment, Siege Engines, or Defense Engines.

I think one thing that can set Fabrication units apart is the type of things they make. A City could make equipment for Infantry, but a Fabricate unit would be needed to make Nice Things for Warlords and Special Units.

[Lord of Monies]

Exate, it's the idea of a city creating sweet items that I disagree with, but oberon seems to have the right idea I reckon. City would make things for infantry, but fabrication units are necessary for special sweet items.

[Lord of Monies]

That's really all there is to say on the matter.

[0beron]

Me too Although my happiness is my own doing, whereas I expect yours is due to something you found :p

[Lord of Monies]

Imagine, if you can, the sight of four dwagons learning to dance-fight.

It has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I just want you to imagine it. Then you'll be close to my happiness.

[Koliup]

Well, since we've decided that cities can apparently pop extra stuff for people, like a unit with the fabrication special(sort of). I think we ought to decide what they can pop. It would be unfair if cities could go right ahead and manufacture everything a unit with the fabrication special can, as, in the fantasy genres Erfworld parodies, Nice Things, or well crafted objects tend to be made by singular people, renowned craftsmen, etc. Where a Dollamancer would be a craftsman of mythic status(using the painter analogy ahead; someone like Michelangelo), a unit with the fabrication special is a well-known craftsman, akin to a famous/really good, but not house-hold word painter, perhaps. Cities, therefor, are 'staffed' with well, regular craftsmen.

Now, we know that Fabrication special units can make saddles(speaking of; what would saddles do with our current rules?), baskets(inventories?), and also warlord-worthy armor. Now, the first two are reasonable enough to make; they're extra equipment. A secondary weapon to your primary one. Whereas something like warlord-worthy armor is more like a great work, in comparison. I should like to propose a new list of equipment to by popped by cities(or made by fabricators?), if you will:
Siege Engines(discussed already.).
Baskets-Backpacks-Saddlebags. Basically a large array of bag things. Now, if we assume a unit pops with a coin purse and some pockets, these new bags are obviously useful. Suggested bonus: Allows a unit to carry multiple Sandwiches/Nice Things, and keep them from decaying quite as fast(for Sandwiches). Also to store hunted rations. Barbarians should obviously pop with a bunch of these.
Tents/Sleeping Accommodations. You probably know what these are. Suggested bonus: A loyalty bonus(small) for the troops who get them; they aren't as miserable as troops who get nothing for the cold night. Alternatively a +1 hit bonus, or something?
Banners. I have no idea what these should do. Maybe a bonus to unit cohesion/order following? Or, if it isn't done already, allowing a warlord to give orders outside his stack, with ease(sans leadership bonus, duh)?
Saddles/Riding Equipment. How do we want to do this? Maybe lowering the penalty that non-Rider units experience when riding a mount and fighting?

That's all I can think of. Thoughts? Comments?

[Kaed]

Not to ignore your suggestions there Koli, but what is going on? What turn are you on?

I admit this is not the fastest paced game but two of you who have been here from the start are managing lagging behind anyway. Exate was always a little slow but it never dragged this much. Now colonel is not responding to his own update. Is this not working for you two? Would you like to let someone else play?

I'm not kicking you out just yet like Nil, but could I get some communication?

0beron - Turn 11
Colonel - Turn 9
Monies - Turn 9
Exate - Turn 8
Koliup - Turn ?

Metheglin, you said life was eating you but you're back? Maybe? What's the deal?

[Koliup]

I was at the bottom of the 9nth turn last I checked. Been gnawing at the bit for a chance to roll over to turn 10. I've calculated my projected finances up to turn 11, though. My natural allies are hilariously expensive.
Say, you never PM'd me back about that message I sent you.

[0beron]

My natural allies are hilariously expensive.

Join the club haha.

[Kaed]

I was at the bottom of the 9nth turn last I checked. Been gnawing at the bit for a chance to roll over to turn 10. I've calculated my projected finances up to turn 11, though. My natural allies are hilariously expensive.
Say, you never PM'd me back about that message I sent you.

Well... that's better than I thought. I guess I was just in the dark about the whole process because metheglin never forwarded me the information. Could you a progress report? And I'll look into that thing you said you sent..

[0beron]

Hey Koliup, what are your units anyway? The rest of us have posted ours, and our city templates on this reference thread.

[Exate]

Is this not working for you two? Would you like to let someone else play?

I'm not kicking you out just yet like Nil, but could I get some communication?

I'm not the fastest player, but I certainly don't want to quit! I was gone for a bit over a week fairly recently and that delayed me a bit, but as far as I know the ball's been on the GM side of the court since Monday. I've been sending all my PMs to both GMs, so you should have a good sense of where I am.

As a player I'm not exactly ideal, I know. On a good day when I and a GM are both around, I can send a handful of fairly detailed PMs, but my scheduling leaves me off the forums for multiple days at a time on a not infrequent basis and not all days are good. I do want to play, I am enjoying it so far- plotting and planning is good, mechanics aren't bad, the GMs are pretty good (particular points to Kaed, no offense Metheglin) and I'm hoping that moving forward I will get a larger cast of NPCs with whom to converse. If you really need something to change, please let me know- I can try to be online at a specific time window, maybe, and move things quickly to catch up? Though I'm not sure how practical that will prove.

[Koliup]

Hey Koliup, what are your units anyway? The rest of us have posted ours, and our city templates on this reference thread.

I wanted to ensure I got any wrinkles that came to mind out of the system before I plopped them down. Now that I've got my special Bs online, I'll do the postings now.

[Exate]

I wanted to ensure I got any wrinkles that came to mind out of the system before I plopped them down. Now that I've got my special Bs online, I'll do the postings now.

Interesting that you listed swamp as a "favored terrain", but wanted stats over swamp-capable for your units and didn't buy swamp-capable for any of them.

[0beron]

also that he has a Simple-mancer who can LINK!? whuuuuuut?

[Lord of Monies]

My guess is that they can link with other units of the same type so they can put more juice into any healing spell, but the spells themselves will still be low-level spells. For example, combined a stack of his units could heal a single unit of a lot of hits, but House will be capable of higher spells that can heal en-masse and such. The caster is still superior, but a lot of the simple-mancers can keep a vip alive for a while.

[Koliup]

I chose to take a hit in my home terrain, and be able to match speed with, or even outrun other infantry. Also, stats are fun. I got a free 2 point special for my specials, basically.

[Kaed]

You're partly right monies. All I did was allow them to do that autoheal link thing that house does, for free. It normally costs 10 juice to do that, but they have only 10 to start with so... I was nice.

[Lord of Monies]

That is nice. Looking at the unit itself, seems somewhat balanced too. Low combat and defense score, makes them just as squishy as a caster but when made up of many of them would make it tough or long to take all of their healing out. Then again, there'd probably only be something like 4 or 5 in a large stack staying close to the warlord, obviously screened, so still annoying to remove. It's a good unit. Time for me to start thinking outside the box on stuff for House to do in order for me to keep the lead.