Book 2 – Page 91

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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby cheeseaholic » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:56 am

I wonder if Charlie and Jojo are going to trip on each other's plans. They both seem to be trying to mess with the portals.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby Lamech » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:14 am

So switching capitals requires one to sit on their throne. This actually cuts down on a lot of portal trickery one could otherwise pull.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby wrecan » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:39 am

There's another reason Charlie now needs Tramennis to live. Tramennis now believes the Magic Kingdom is violating its neutrality and allying with Parson by letting him pass. It is in Charlie's interest to ensure that this fact be made widely know. If Tramennis the diplomat makes it alive to Jetstone City, he will immediately begin building an alliance, and in the process of negotiation, in oprder to show people what a threat Parson is, he will disclose, often and loudly, that the Magic Kingdom gives him passage through its borders. This will in turn help turn people away from TGMtTA, and back towards using Charlie's services.

Just as Toolism cut into Charlie's profits, Charlie is now using the concept of Magic Kingdom bias to cut into his rivals' profits.

In the end, I still hope that Tramennis is smart enough to see through Slately and Charlie's ruse. Though I do like the notion of Slately switching the portals just as Parson passes through, but before any casters can follow him, and then trying -- unsuccessfully -- to kill Parson, resulting in his death and Tramennis' succession. The book ends with (i) Tramennis, Ace, Lloyd, Pierce and a handful of unipegatuars heading to Jetstone, (ii) a general caster civil war in the Magic Kingdom, with Wanda, Sizemore, Jack, and Maggie stuck in the middle, (iii) Parson stuck with Sylvia, Archer and a handful of decrypted dwagons, archons, and hobgobwins (and a captured Cubbins) in the ruins of Spacerock, (iv) Stanley casterless in Gobwin Knob; and (v) Jillian in FAQ with Vanna and Vinnie trying to turn Ansom.

Will Don King send Caesar to take out Stanley?
Will Jillian and/or Tramennis ally with him to do it?
What happens to the Magic Kingdom?
How can Parson stop Haggar and Charlie from overrunning him?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby 0beron » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:41 am

So interesting mechanic with the Capital Change...and if sitting on the Throne is the ONLY way to do it, suddenly the idea of having multiple capital sites seems much less useful than I anticipated. "Oh well ya see our Ruler just croaked, making me Ruler now...oh and there goes the Capital. Too bad this other capital site I'm sitting in is useless."
So I really hope that the throne thing is just for when you want to switch between existing Capitals, rather then retreat to a backup one when the original is taken.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby effataigus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:42 am

Nnelg wrote:
sheepfly wrote:Also, it's hard to see how changing the capital would change ANYTHING. Sure, the portal closes. If GK takes the garrison, the exact same thing would happen. Win or win slowly, Parson is trapped in Spacerock for the turn. Charlie's suggested strategy doesn't actually change anything for Jetstone or Parson, unless Tramennis was indeed correct that Charlie fears not a continuation of hostilities, but an alliance between Jetstone & GK.

Hm, a very astute observation... I wonder how quickly Tramennis will make it.


I disagree, there is an important difference: changing the capital allows the portal to close without Jetstone losing the city. Not losing the city allows Jetstone to act within the city without getting shackled. Now, what I don't get is what Jetstone really hopes to gain by pressing this conflict inside the city while Parson and Wanda are back.

If the two of them are back, then GK is as strong as they can be... so JS either a) can't hope to win, b) feels that they can win in which case they needn't waste time transferring the throne, c) feels they might win (in which case there must be some extra big penalty for losing one's capital that I don't know of to explain their concern for making the switch), or d) feels that they can win ONLY if Parson and Wanda have nowhere to retreat to (which makes a bit of sense to me at least, but ignores the fact that going back through that portal mid fight isn't much of an option).

I also disagree with MOD... pacing on this update was fine... not much going on, but it was justified with a very high reveal density and some well-disguised clarifications. Yes, we forumites had speculated a ton of this stuff, but it is nice to see which of the multitude of options Charlie is pursing.

Unlike others, I think the part of Charlie's plan that we now understand will work just fine. It seems more likely that the unspoken part of this plan is the other shoe that Charlie will drop either on the GK forces in JS or on GK itself. Bringing overwhelming force to bear on either location would accomplish Charlie's goal, assuming he doesn't know that Wanda is an heir.

My questions center around what happens if Stanley eats it... The GK strike force in JS goes neutral... but who are they allowed to attack while neutral? Units in hex? Units in zone? What needs to happen for Wanda to claim JS for herself? If she does, would neutral GK units be allowed to ally with her? Would they be able to do so BEFORE she claims a captial site?

Finally, if JS allies with Charlescomm after their turn, but before GK's next turn, would they get to act again before GK goes? Not that I see this really changing much except perhaps letting Tram's refugee force cover a bit more distance between themselves and GK, and perhaps making their (and Haggar's) dead in the field despawn before Wanda can reach them.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby 0beron » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:49 am

effataigus wrote:Finally, if JS allies with Charlescomm after their turn, but before GK's next turn, would they get to act again before GK goes? Not that I see this really changing much except perhaps letting Tram's refugee force cover a bit more distance between themselves and dawn, and perhaps making their (and Haggar's) dead in the field despawn before Wanda can reach them.

I HAVE to believe that Stanley would appoint an Heir Designate at the last minute. GK has more than enough money to do it, and they're in position to take another Capital Site if they play their cards right. Not even his Toolship is that arrogant he'd let the side die.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby joosy » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:05 am

I don't think Stanley will croak as that would mean someone else will have to attune to the Arkenhammer. I am not sure Rob intends to go down that road as interesting as it would be.

However, I think an assault on GK on Charlie's next turn would be fun. At the very least it would make Stanley happy by getting to fight again. It's really what he's best at.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby 0beron » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:12 am

joosy wrote:I don't think Stanley will croak as that would mean someone else will have to attune to the Arkenhammer. I am not sure Rob intends to go down that road as interesting as it would be.

Psh, that's easy and has been theorized before. Jillian gets the 'Hammer. (or as someone suggested, her Heir)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby DevilDan » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:34 am

And... just like that... I espy the death of a GK caster (or possibly the predictamancer).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby The Pink Warlord » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:46 am

Question:

Why don't Parson and Co head back to GK?

They're not losing anything they can't easily replace except for Sylvia and even she is far less important than their casters or even the good will of the Magic Kingdom.

Losing the Dwagons sucks but with parsons help Stanly can easily tame more. The Archons are already gone. Everything else is just standard troops and a few Warlords, both of which can easily be replaced.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby 0beron » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:47 am

Because it's a "too big to fail" commitment. If they totally abandon the fight, they have no dwagons and no army. Wanda needs the bodies from this fight to replenish the army and move on.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby Sieggy » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:13 pm

I think that the Carneymancers are going to knock EVERYONES plans into a cocked hat, and much hilarity (which will be singularly unappreciated by all those involved) will ensue. I have a feeling that Jetstone is going to be the new capitol of the Undead Furry side (their signamancy will be the Zombie Hamstard). A question, though - if a new side is established, and a capitol site designated, does it automatically get a new Portal installed by the Titans? It's going to mess with Charlie bigtime if Slately moves the Portal this turn and next turn, Parson has a replacement.

Another question . . . do the portals ONLY go to the MK? Or, is it like the Stargates where you can dial in a new destination? Perhaps a skill which has been forgotten / suppressed / or not figured out yet? If they are Titanic artifacts, religious awe may have prevented the Erfers from examining them too closely, whereas Parson would probably dismantle one just to see how they worked . . . If they only go to the MK, then it would seem that the Titans had a greater use for the place other than being their version of Galt's Gulch.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby Rubido » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:59 pm

I had to register finally to comment. Don't forget that Slately's real body is lying in the rubble. If he is decrypted does GK gain a ruler and a kingdom?

*edit* Or at the very least the portal could possibly be reopened after
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby bladestorm » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:01 pm

The casters go through the Spacerock portal ahead of Parson to screen him, the capitol changes to Jetstone, Parson steps through without a screen and is isolated from anyone who went through ahead of him. That leaves him with only any caster that followed him through the Jetstone portal vs anyone garrisoned at Jetstone, +/- hatever Charlie can add due to informal alliance. Since Charlie's turn is before GK's, he's already done, so cannot act unless on behalf of the informal alliance.

Though it is beginning to sound suspiciously like Jojo and Charlie may be closer linked than we imagined. Do we have a Charlie is Jojo conspiracy yet?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby No one in particular » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:07 pm

bladestorm wrote:Though it is beginning to sound suspiciously like Jojo and Charlie may be closer linked than we imagined. Do we have a Charlie is Jojo conspiracy yet?


No, but feel free to add it here: Well Reasoned Theories :D
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby the_tick_rules » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:08 pm

Rubido wrote:I had to register finally to comment. Don't forget that Slately's real body is lying in the rubble. If he is decrypted does GK gain a ruler and a kingdom?

*edit* Or at the very least the portal could possibly be reopened after


We don't know, never been tried. I'm guessing not since I remember Parson saying something like every decrypted is reclassified as a unit under wanda's command, or something like that.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby effataigus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:35 pm

onlyme wrote:Now that is a gem, if there ever was one.

Definitely... bravo Xin!

The Pink Warlord wrote:Question:

Why don't Parson and Co head back to GK?

They're not losing anything they can't easily replace except for Sylvia and even she is far less important than their casters or even the good will of the Magic Kingdom.

The same reason he adopted the misguided plan to begin with... guilt over GK units dying without him risking his life. Unlike his decision to go in the first place, I at least see how cutting his losses and sacrificing the strike force could lead to more GK units dying than absolutely have to.

0beron wrote:I HAVE to believe that Stanley would appoint an Heir Designate at the last minute. GK has more than enough money to do it, and they're in position to take another Capital Site if they play their cards right. Not even his Toolship is that arrogant he'd let the side die.

If Stanley weren't just being ceremonial about passing the crown, Stanley's choice would be to promote either the natrual allies that are betraying him or the twoll getting cut down by said natural allies. Plus, Stanely wouldn't give up like that. He'd go down swinging the Arkenhammer and singing ACDC.
Rubido wrote:I had to register finally to comment. Don't forget that Slately's real body is lying in the rubble. If he is decrypted does GK gain a ruler and a kingdom?

If decrypted count as heirs/rulers still, then methinks Ansom will inherit before Tram.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby 0beron » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:38 pm

effataigus wrote:Plus, Stanely wouldn't give up like that [appointing an Heir Designate]. He'd go down swinging the Arkenhammer with and singing ACDC.

We know from the example of Wanda that an Heir Designate can be remotely appointed with just a thought. Even if he goes down fighting, I expect that Stanley would have the opportunity to "pass the crown" an instant before he croaks.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby effataigus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:42 pm

effataigus wrote:Finally, if JS allies with Charlescomm after their turn, but before GK's next turn, would they get to act again before GK goes? Not that I see this really changing much except perhaps letting Tram's refugee force cover a bit more distance between themselves and GK, and perhaps making their (and Haggar's) dead in the field despawn before Wanda can reach them.


Another answer to this question would be giving Faq an extra turn. This would put the Meglaogwiff force well ahead of any surviving dwagons... and possibly set up Faq to help in a GK decapitation which, (unlike killing Wanda) we know Jillian would have no qualms with... could also explain how she could be on hand to get the hammer for those with that pet theory. Finally, there's been plenty of foreshadowing of both Charlescomm turning natural allies to Jillian's side and of Jillian leading strike forces against capital cities of monster-sides.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 91

Postby effataigus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:47 pm

0beron wrote:We know from the example of Wanda that an Heir Designate can be remotely appointed...
Ah, nice... forgot about that update!
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