Darkness Rising - The New Batch

by **bob the 6th** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:49 pm

yeah, wait and see. make them stop dodging. also, anexa should maove with rudy to get a +6 combat boost from him, uping her to 13 and one shoting cloth golems territory.

by **Nnelg** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:29 pm

I approve of this plan. Let's roll.

by **The Colonel** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:30 am

okay, future cavalry incoming. That's a me by the way/ Plan is also appproved.

Is taking 2 well armed and 1 mighty blow okay?

by **Werebiscuit** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:03 am

tigerusthegreat wrote:Looking through now for a summary:

Here is what has been stated so far (I decided stack order, but it seems to be about what we need)

Stack:
Leader: Regus (5 combat, lvl 1, bonus +1 com, +1 def) [Move to G10, Dodge]
Members:
Fortune's Chance (3 Combat) [No orders given]
Nemo (3 Combat) With Naughty Kitty [No orders given]
Wegio (5 Combat) [move to H1]
Whump (6 combat) [Move to L2, Dodge]
Rudy Eye (7 combat) [No orders given]
Anex (10 Combat) [Move to G12, Dodge]

Not Stacked:
Zed-Too (5 Combat) [Move to G3?]
Kilroy Jenkins (5 Combat) [move to K8]
Larry 'Curly' Moe (5 Combat) [Move to J5?]

Actions before enterring hex (as far as I have read):
Veil Whump to look like T. Coil
Lesser Curse on Whump
Lesser Boost on Anex

Thanks for that Tigerus.
Ok guys a few flaws I can see are that the guys that aren't stacked seem to be moving too far or not far enough in Zed -2's case. Although I would interpret Bland's orders as moving to a different square than G3 since he's trying to protect Regus in G10 ( which puts him in either F 9-11 or G9 or11)

Kilroy (Watermonkey314) if you move to K8 you're going to attract splody mouse SM02 (since it can't get to Whump at L2). Not that it's a bad thing but we're putting out bait in Whump...and you're dangling yourself as another piece. You might also attract both Cloth golems and 3 crossbow bolts. Can you handle that ? (Average 7 damage followed by 3x 2d6-4(average 3 damage each for 9) and 2 x 2d6-3 for 8. I make that a possible 24 damage on average)

Similarly for Moe ( The Colonel)...only in your position both splody mice can get to K4 (in position to blow up J5) and you're likely to attract PG02 and 3 crossbow bolts.
Again...can you handle that ? (A possible 14 damage followed by 3x 2d6-8 (average 1 damage from the 3) and a 2d6-3 for an average 4. That's a posssible 19 damage)

If both of you guys manage to attract everything away from Whump then our lesser curse is held over until we may not want it and his veil is wasted
Yes both of you can't possibly attract everything but even splitting they could do 14 damage to one and 17 to the other which wipes you both out and wastes Whumps action.
The spoldy mice can't reach beyond the i-line so that's why we're moving to G only and having Whump as bait.

by **Werebiscuit** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:47 am

bob the 6th wrote:yeah, wait and see. make them stop dodging. also, anexa should maove with rudy to get a +6 combat boost from him, uping her to 13 and one shoting cloth golems territory.

Indeed we need to be next to each other to get support/co-ordinate so thus Anex's position at G12 leaves Rudy too exposed...and there are too many rocks between them and Whump. I propose we move to E8 & E9. I also propose Rudy only uses support for +3 to keep his defence up and dodges and delays like Anex. If one of the legionaires stands in F8 and dodges both archers will have 3 def+6dodging +1leadership +4cover = a def of 14 and the legionaire will have 5+6 +1 =12.
This will give both a shot in round 2 where they can fire at the same time for support giving Rudy a shot at 2d6-1 at an archer in cover (1-11 damage) and Anex a shot at the same archer with 2d6 +7 ( 9-19 damage) They will do a minimum of 10 damage wiping out a crossbow even if it is in cover. Anex's next shot will be in phase 10 and again will be 2d6+7 likely wiping out another and Rudy will have a chance in phase 7 ( same time as the marbits get to shoot)for a 2d6 shot or a 2d6 +4 shot if he moves to break the archers cover. (6-16 damage)
Wiping out the 3 archers gives us the upper hand.

by **Nnelg** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:20 am

Werebiscuit, unless you've intentionally called up an older version of the plan, the current idea is like this:

tigerusthegreat wrote:
Spoiler: show
Just so I'm clear on this: Whump would not gain any leadership bonus until I entered the hex, right?

I agree with the new orders, and recommend stacking like this for now:

Stack:
Leader: Regus (5 combat, lvl 1, bonus +1 com, +1 def) [delay]
Members:
Anex (10 Combat) [delay]
Rudy Eye (7 combat) [No orders given]
Wegio (5 Combat) [delay]
Zed-Too (5 Combat) [delay]
Fortune's Chance (3 Combat) [No orders given]
Nemo (3 Combat) With Naughty Kitty [No orders given]

Not Stacked:
Whump (6 combat) [Move to L2, Dodge]
Kilroy Jenkins (5 Combat) [delay]
Larry 'Curly' Moe (5 Combat) [delay]

Since Whump won't get any bonuses until I enter the hex, it won't matter if he's stacked, and this way, another unit that might be able to attack gets the stacking bonus.

Or alternatively, move in the two unstacked legionaires, outside of mouse range, with Whump, then bring in the stacked units in after the enemy acts.

Whump's going in first, as bait. We might want to send in a legionaire or too as well, but we shouldn't send Anex and Rudy in until the enemy has moved; so that they'll stop dodging and so that we can move into a better position tactically.

by **Werebiscuit** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:41 pm

Nnelg wrote:Werebiscuit, unless you've intentionally called up an older version of the plan, the current idea is like this:

tigerusthegreat wrote:Just so I'm clear on this: Whump would not gain any leadership bonus until I entered the hex, right?

I agree with the new orders, and recommend stacking like this for now:

Stack:
Leader: Regus (5 combat, lvl 1, bonus +1 com, +1 def) [delay]
Members:
Anex (10 Combat) [delay]
Rudy Eye (7 combat) [No orders given]
Wegio (5 Combat) [delay]
Zed-Too (5 Combat) [delay]
Fortune's Chance (3 Combat) [No orders given]
Nemo (3 Combat) With Naughty Kitty [No orders given]

Not Stacked:
Whump (6 combat) [Move to L2, Dodge]
Kilroy Jenkins (5 Combat) [delay]
Larry 'Curly' Moe (5 Combat) [delay]

Since Whump won't get any bonuses until I enter the hex, it won't matter if he's stacked, and this way, another unit that might be able to attack gets the stacking bonus.

Or alternatively, move in the two unstacked legionaires, outside of mouse range, with Whump, then bring in the stacked units in after the enemy acts.

Whump's going in first, as bait. We might want to send in a legionaire or too as well, but we shouldn't send Anex and Rudy in until the enemy has moved; so that they'll stop dodging and so that we can move into a better position tactically.

I obviously missed the quickly changing plan since they were close to each other. However...

The Enemy doesn't lose dodging when they move...unless they also take a attack/fire/strike action at the end of that move.
The crossbow marbits are more deadly to Anex and Rudy than any other unit until they take their shot and lose their dodge so we have to make them take that shot. If they don't take that shot then our archers have a def of 9 entering the hex apart from 1 spot. That's 3 x 2d6 -2 (a range of 0-10 with a 5 average). On average they'll do 15 damage. Neither Anex or Rudy can take that
Anex can enter before they can shoot and thus can have a def of 13-14 when they do. So long as she doesn't go too far then only crossbows can target her at 2d6-7. Thats 3 shots from 0-5 with a 50 % chance that it'll be 0. So likely that on average they'll do 3 damage. And they've then lost their dodging.

In my opinion I'd rather trust that they'll not roll 3 10 or above's on their 3 x 2d6 than that they'll not hold their shots then roll 3 x 6 or above's.
If the Marbits haven't fired by phase 4 Anex will not enter the hex..and we've then lost our biggest damage dealer.

That seem fair enough ?

by **Nnelg** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:51 pm

No. If the marbits do nothing in responce to Whump, we send out a few legionnaires (veiled as high-damage archers, of course). And if they still don't react, we'll just move in anyways and deal with it. In no way are our actions beyond phase 6 set in stone.

And even if the enemy doesn't stop dodging after moving, they've lost their chance to attack. So I fail to see the harm in sending the tank in as bait and waiting to see what bites. It's a very low risk move with potentially worthwhile rewards, and practically no opportunity cost.

by **bob the 6th** » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:55 pm

The Colonel wrote:Is taking 2 well armed and 1 mighty blow okay?

no, as again well armed is a passive and therefore can only be taken once. a mighty blow is fine, and a guard might allow for the nice option of tanking for a round or neting a +1/+1.

by **Werebiscuit** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:15 am

Nnelg wrote:No. If the marbits do nothing in responce to Whump, we send out a few legionnaires (veiled as high-damage archers, of course). And if they still don't react, we'll just move in anyways and deal with it. In no way are our actions beyond phase 6 set in stone.

And even if the enemy doesn't stop dodging after moving, they've lost their chance to attack. So I fail to see the harm in sending the tank in as bait and waiting to see what bites. It's a very low risk move with potentially worthwhile rewards, and practically no opportunity cost.

No harm at all in sending in the tank and seeing what bites. (that is not what I disagree with in the plan)
However, you're forgetting that they can delay to see if a better opportunity presents itself even after moving. The veil should see that they don't but if they delay then Anex will not enter till enough of them have fired that she considers the risk of death is low. With her def of 9 dodging and their com of 7 they will do 2d6-2 damage. On average 2 crossbow bolts will kill her. So if there are 2 marbits left to fire she will not enter unless there is the safe entry point still open (behind the rock at E11) and she will not move beyond that.
The potential opportunity cost is that the marbits can delay longer than Anex's next action causing her to lose her first action.

Anex can circumvent their chance of high damage by getting to cover in the phases before they can shoot which also is higher risk than staying out but all 3 would have to roll 10 or above on 2d6 to kill her (around about a less than 1% chance that it would happen)

by **MarbitChow** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:58 pm

Turn (*Mumble*) - Marbit Hex - Round 1 - Phase 6

Anex gets some mojo. Whump gets voo-doo'd and veiled, and charges into the hex, alone, on Phase 6. The marbits, confused by a weak caster charging without defense, spread out to avoid any nasty shockamancy blasts, and try to jab it with pointy sticks. This has no effect.

PCs have been added to the Reference section. Please double-check the stats and let me know if there are any changes that need to be made.

Rock formations are impassible and provide a +4 Cover bonus to units standing behind them. All units other than Nemo have 2 Hex Move remaining, which means you can enter the hex, and flee the hex, but cannot re-enter it once you have fled. Nemo's mount has 6 Hex Move remaining, so he can leave and re-enter up to 3 times. Both sides are assumed to be Dodging when they start.

Tenebris Units (full details)

Spoiler: show

Tenebris Units (Summary)

Spoiler: show

Enemy Stats

Spoiler: show

Results

Spoiler: show

As always, let me know if you see any mistakes.

(Edit 1: Leadership Stack - Swapped Whump out and Zed-Too in.)
(Edit 2: Updated Wegio.)

by **The Colonel** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:44 pm

Can I first take Well Armed, Guard and Mighty Blow? I'll have 1AP left.

by **Werebiscuit** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:56 pm

Ok so neither of the Splody mice took the bait. That means we need to deal with them. Unexpected but we have to suck it up.

The only way I can see of dealing with them is to send in the naughty kitty. If we put Regus aboard veil him as nemo and move to L11 then it has an attack of com 10 vs a splody mouse def of 11 and will be doing 2d6-1 damage Regus can then do 2d6 -5. We'd still need some good rolls to kill it so I doubt we'll do that but it gives us a chance of doing so and we should boost both. Hpefully the kitty/caster combo will attract crossbow bolts at com 7 vs def 13 for 2d6-6 damage. The 3 or so damage will be soaked by the kitty's 40 hits as will the 7 if the mouse decides to explode.

Better yet if we put Anex aboard she'll attack it at 2d6 with the kittys 2d6-1 causing an average 13 damage in total. Sh'es boosted so she's likely to do the extra one needed to kill it outright without exploding.

It also get's over her lack of hits and weak def...and threatens the crossbow marbits. So they're likely to fire. The downside is as it's her def it's soaking from it'll take high damage ( not sure if she'll get the cover from the rock at M11). Likely over half it's hits so it will have to retreat next turn to survive. As it goes before anything next round it WILL make it out. As Anex goes before it I believe she can shoot before it moves so we'll not lose her shot in round 2 but that's basically the kitty out of the fight. She can damage the other mouse but not take it out without a very good roll (i.e double 6's)

We still have the other mouse to deal with but maybe Rudy can do something about that as he can enter safely once the Marbits have shot.

by **Werebiscuit** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:02 pm

Arrgh...just realized we don't have the luxury of changing riders...as it would take an action to mount/dismount losing the round for the rider/new rider.
it would have to be Nemo that attacked and his def is worse than Anex's !

scratch that plan then.

by **MarbitChow** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:15 pm

Be careful with the mount while the mice are in play. Remember that mounts only intercept Attack / Fire / Strike completely. Normally, riders take 1/2 damage from AoE attacks, but since Explody states that it targets all adjacent units, and riders are considered to be adjacent to everything that their mount is adjacent to, riders and mounts both take full damage from Explody.

by **bob the 6th** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:40 pm

could do a zurg rush on the mice... throw a melee at each to wound them, then step anexa/ruddy for a coup de grace. not sur though, most tactcs seem either to need a sacrifice, or something.

though, it might work to zurg rush the top of the map with melee. admittedly one might be killed, but it is unlikely. all the archers would fire on them, and they could kick some ass. actualy, moving one up to a mouse might make sense, as it would have the option to nuke them...

by **Nnelg** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:45 pm

Um, I take it that you've simulated through phase 5 now, Marbit? Because I had thought that most of the enemy wouldn't get to act until then. (Not that simulating through 5 is bad, since we would've have had anything to do but wait anyways.)

Werebiscuit wrote:Arrgh...just realized we don't have the luxury of changing riders...as it would take an action to mount/dismount losing the round for the rider/new rider.
it would have to be Nemo that attacked and his def is worse than Anex's !

scratch that plan then.

Wait. I was under the notion that we have unlimited actions until we entered the hex. Was that supposed to mean until any of us enter the hex? If so that messes up a lot of my plan, I'd have veiled the legionnaires as archers and and vice-verse...

Right, so then, I think that Whump actually did succeed in defusing the mice, for a turn at least... They've moved now, and unless I misread the rules that means they can't move again this round. And if they can't move, their explosions can't hurt us if we don't move adjacent.

In fact, if we time it right Anex and Rudy will each get two shots before the Splody Mice have a chance to move again. I'd like to move them in, but... There are still those marbit archers.

If indeed we still have actions before moving in this turn, Nemo should veil a couple legionnaires (say, Kilroy and Moe) as archers (the strong-but-squishy type) and send them in at the same time as Anex and Rudy. (Maybe Regus as well, for the leadership bonus.)

If they move to G8 and J5 and delay/dodge, they'll look like two additional archers still ready to fire -and the marbits are more likely to shoot archers that haven't fired yet as apposed to archers that have. (They're unled marbits, so I don't expect them have to figured it out this quickly. Even if they realize that there's foolamancy going on, they're not going to piece together what's real and what isn't. [That's what the leadership role is for...])

This will also have the effect of protecting the lower-left corner from the Splody mice. (Thankfully both legionnaires can survive a critically successful explosion.) So we move Anex and Rudy to H1 and H2, respectively. Rudy supports (but shouldn't coordinate) Anex, and both of them fire at the nearest Mouse. Regus can move up to I1 and use his spear, or go up to J2 and attack. (Although, the latter option potentially opens him up to a mouse attack... one which would hit the "caster" as well, so it's more likely than the mice attacking a single target. It would keep the bear from running around our caster's flank, though...)

Hm, another thought occurs to me: Bull Rush automatically succeeds against dodging units. We can use that to our advantage.

Lastly, Whump shouldn't break the veil until everything that might still attack him, has.

by **tigerusthegreat** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:54 pm

One mistake I see is that for the first round, Whump is not stacked (his place was taken by Zed Too)

Units with Fire Actions:
Nemo (on NaughtyKitty) 3 Combat / 1 Defense / 4 Hits
Fortune's Chance 3 Combat / 1 Defense / 4 Hits
Rudy Eye 7 Combat / 3 Defense / 10 Hits [Support, Coordinate, Dance-fighting]
Anex 10 Combat / 3 Defense / 10 Hits [Support, Mighty Blow]
also:
Regus (limited to one off, 8 squares) 5 Combat / 4 Defense / 12 Hits

Units with Strike Actions (2 square range):
Regus 5 Combat / 4 Defense / 12 Hits

Units with Attack Actions:
Wegio Wegion 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 14 Hits
Zed-Too 5 Combat / 8 Defense / 22 Hits [Guard, Interpose]
Kilroy Jenkins 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 14 Hits
Larry "Moe" Curly 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 14 Hits

Here's what I recommend:

Rudy, Anex, and Zed-too move in. Zed-too takes up position at K6, and delays, using his guard attack modifier to give Anex a defense boost. Rudy moves to i6 and Anex moves to j6. Anex attacks SM01, who has a +4 defense bonus, with her Mighty blow ability up, dealing 14 - 9 + 2d6 = 5+2d6 [7-17 damage] and should kill the thing outright. Rudy attacks SM02, who shouldn't get a bonus, dealing 8-5 + 2d6 = 3 + 2d6 [5-15 damage].

I recommend moving the casters in, as far from the rest of the battle as possible. Perhaps H2 or thereabouts. They should attack the remaining mice, probably only SM02, dealing 4-5 + 2d6 = 2d6-1 [1-11 damage] each. This takes care of the mice which are the biggest threat to us at the moment because their damage ignores defense.

Assuming splody mice are taken care of, the legionaires should help out whump. J2,3, and 4 should be occupied by legionaires and J5 by Regus, to protect the casters around h2 (units cannot pass by units, and them and Zed-too will take care of blocking the lower areas and making it a two turn trip around). They should attack the Pig Golem. Each will deal 2d6+1 damage, and if two hits kill it, the J4 legionairy should move to J5, and attack the marbit there. Regus will attack the marbit with his range.

Thoughts?

If splody mice survive all the ranged, then Regus is the best chocie to take out the remaining one, as he has a range advantage. Their delayed action could mean they blow up against any melee that attack them (if delayed actions are resolved immediately)

Also, Marbit, how piecemiel can we do these orders? Can we have Anex attack and see what she rolls, then decide on the rest? I don't want to make a bunch more work for you, but that seems to be the best scenario for us.

by **Nnelg** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:20 pm

tigerusthegreat wrote:One mistake I see is that for the first round, Whump is not stacked (his place was taken by Zed Too)

That was intentional. Whump doesn't need Regus's leadership bonus, other units do.

If splody mice survive all the ranged, then Regus is the best chocie to take out the remaining one, as he has a range advantage.

Sadly Regus is not a spearman, but a warrior with a "throwing spear" item. I know, I made the same mistake at first, too.

On the plus side, this is even better for attacking the mice with. Wegio has one as well, so that's there as well.

by **MarbitChow** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:57 pm

Nnelg wrote:Um, I take it that you've simulated through phase 5 now, Marbit?

Yes. Until you were in the hex, all marbit units just delayed their action. In addition, defensive units that couldn't normally move yet also start with delayed actions. It's one of the advantages of defending - all your units can react immediately, no matter when the attackers enter the hex.

Nnelg wrote:Wait. I was under the notion that we have unlimited actions until we entered the hex. Was that supposed to mean until any of us enter the hex?

Yes, it's the collective "you", not each "you" individually. However, I have no problem allowing additional unit to be either Veiled or Boosted/Cursed, since that won't make a major difference to the fight. Changing who is mounted, however, would require the actions of both units this turn. The mount could still enter, however.

Nnelg wrote:Hm, another thought occurs to me: Bull Rush automatically succeeds against dodging units. We can use that to our advantage.

Note that if you're bull-rushing, you're not dodging, and if you bull-rush a unit with a delayed action ready, they could choose to use it to attack the bull-rushing unit, which means that they are no longer dodging when the bull-rush resolves. (Both actions occur simultaneously.)

tigerusthegreat wrote:Also, Marbit, how piecemiel can we do these orders? Can we have Anex attack and see what she rolls, then decide on the rest? I don't want to make a bunch more work for you, but that seems to be the best scenario for us.

If you set up conditional actions (such as 'Shoot Anex's target if it is still alive'), they have to wait until the current phase resolves. So, if Anex attacks on 5, units who act based on her result can't act until 4. If other units wait to see what happens for THAT result, they go on 3, and so on. This fight is simple enough that setting up a few conditional orders isn't a big deal, so if you want to set that up, that's fine. Note that many of the marbit units also act on 5; the spearmen, for example, get to go again this phase, so it might be safer to see what the results of a phase are and change your orders rather than letting multiple phases play through. It's your call, though.

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