Book 2 – Page 92

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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby TheTuna » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:18 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:I won't wade into the "is Sylvia sane" debate yet (take a guess what my stance is, both guesses are plausible). But give the gal some credit, she's doing -something- that is immediate and plot-moving.

As opposed to the bloody thinkamancers who I'm beginning to wish were in the Courtyard with Sylvia. Where she'd teach them the benefits of brevity and concision, in the short span before flames turn everyone to cinder.


A hearty second here.

Only thing that's kept me coming back for regular updates instead of waiting for the arc to be concluded has been the Archon battle and Sylvia. I know Parson and the thinkamancers talking at each other is plot-relevant and good character development and all, but it's just sucked all of the tension out of what was previously a very dynamic narrative.

There was never a break like this in Book 1, things kept snowballing into each other one after another, and it's really doing some serious harm to the momentum of the comic, I feel.

Book 0 is very interesting, though, so at least that's something.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby Lamech » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:35 pm

RichMan wrote:
I thought that was standard practice. Unaligned casters retired to the Magic Kingdom until someother side hired them. So everything in the MK is a mercenary waiting for hire. If you had enough smuckers the whole place could be yours. The MK is the home to the elite caster units. The don't go barbarian, they retire to the MK and wait for rehire.

This is why JoJo exists now. He was freed to return to the MK by QueenB. But she made him swear not to hire out to a non-royal aligned side.

Hmmm. and if Parson counts as a caster and has Magic Kingdom access then is he a "mercenary" unit. He has no upkeep so won't auto-return if not paid for.

There are two kinds of casters in the MK.

Some are still part of a side. They aren't for hire. They are exactly like any other unit wandering around in Erfworld for a side.

The rest are barbarians. They don't have any requirement to hire themselves out. They can refuse any and all offers. If they don't make upkeep somehow they disband. However mercenary work is not the only way to get shmuckers. The hippiemancers grow food. Some casters sell items (scrolls or clothing we have seen.) Nor do they need to take any contracts. I suspect a lot of casters can afford to take non-risky contracts. A turnamancer just boosting production. A thinkamancer just thinkagraming.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby Saladman » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:59 pm

RichMan wrote:Parson ... has no upkeep so won't auto-return if not paid for.


Parson's upkeep is over a thousand a turn, a sum seen as outlandishly large by Stanley, and by level he should have a purse limit at the moment of two thousand schmuckers. So no. Parson as a barbarian would be pretty much screwed. That's a lot of upkeep to make up by farming, hunting or foraging, especially for a heavy unit with probably not much move to pay the penalty with.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby bladestorm » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:33 pm

Biggest monkeywrench to Charlie/Slately's plan right now would be for Sylvia to take the garrison by force before the capital could be moved. Burn it all to the ground -- king, tram, enemy units, friendly units. Portal closes, and Parson never has a chance to make it through.

Maybe tGMtTA planted that thought into Sylvia's head. The other warlords are standing around waiting for orders, and Sylvia is actually issuing them.

I wonder, though, if Wanda can name one of her decrypted as her own CWL without establishing a separate side. They may be GK units, but they are hers to do with as she will.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby TheTuna » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:14 pm

Nah, no way she can. She may have complete and total power over the Decrypted, but Stanley is still the side's leader, and that means only he has the power to name Chief Warlord according to everything we know about Erfworld.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby mythicfox » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:52 pm

I think Parson's starting to figure out he's actually wound up in a particularly-eloquent version of Planet Spengo.

I mean, seriously: are these guys Thinkamancers or Overthinkamancers?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby LTDave » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:29 pm

If Sylvia sets fire to the Garrison and cwoaks Cubbins WITHOUT cwoaking every single GK unit, then the City falls.
All the Jetstone units are captured (including the King and brand new Heir), and the side ceases to exist.
The Portal closes, and Parson has to turn around and go back to the Knob.

So that ain't gonna happen (from a Narrative point of view).

If Sylvia sets fire to the Garrison and cwoaks everybody except Cubbins, then Parson can walk through the portal into a Jeststone city with only Jetstone units, and is captured / cwoaked, ending the comic.

So that ain't gonna happen.

If Sylvia sets fire to the Garrison, and the Jeststone units rush in to capture the Throne room and Parson walks through the portal at the same time, we have chaos, disorder, and an all round good time.

So that's what's gonna happen. I so predict it!

Somehow, the King makes it to the throne, then cwoaks. Tremmenis is the new King, and leaves the hex.
Parson and Sylvia and whoever else survives the Garrison Fire are now in the middle of Jetstone, with very few units, the rest of their Army cowaked (although Wanda can make a brand new army pretty easy, and we're off to the races - City under siege surrounded by hostile units, and the Magic Kingdom closed to re-entry by its furious inhabitants.

Then it's time for book three.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby Oberon » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:01 am

Goshen wrote:Stanley certainly wouldn't like that! What does it take for Wanda, or any other unit, to decide to split off without their overlord's permission?
While I can be proven wrong by future events, Wanda has been very loyal to Stanley, and has stated categorically that Charley, as an attuned tool wielder, would be the last person GK would attack. So I am not seeing any incentive for Wanda to split from GK and place herself at odds with Stanley.
RichMan wrote:Hmmm. and if Parson counts as a caster and has Magic Kingdom access then is he a "mercenary" unit. He has no upkeep so won't auto-return if not paid for.
Parson has upkeep. In fact, his upkeep increased when he promoted himself to a field unit.
How using capslock wins arguments:
Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby Whispri » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:03 am

Oberon wrote:
Goshen wrote:Stanley certainly wouldn't like that! What does it take for Wanda, or any other unit, to decide to split off without their overlord's permission?
While I can be proven wrong by future events, Wanda has been very loyal to Stanley, and has stated categorically that Charley, as an attuned tool wielder, would be the last person GK would attack. So I am not seeing any incentive for Wanda to split from GK and place herself at odds with Stanley.

It is good then that she has her father's example to follow. He only broke an alliance once and that was when his Side was under threat of destruction by his 'allies' if he didn't pay them an Overlord's ransom.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:30 am

Oberon wrote:
Goshen wrote:Stanley certainly wouldn't like that! What does it take for Wanda, or any other unit, to decide to split off without their overlord's permission?
While I can be proven wrong by future events, Wanda has been very loyal to Stanley, and has stated categorically that Charley, as an attuned tool wielder, would be the last person GK would attack. So I am not seeing any incentive for Wanda to split from GK and place herself at odds with Stanley.

Doing something without his permission is not the same as opposing him. We already know Wanda believes that asking for forgiveness can be better than asking for permission.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby wrecan » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:11 am

I wonder if Parson's declaration that "I'm going. Through. The Portal. Isaac." is actually representing Parson's physical effort to move forward and into the portal with his screen of casters while all the Thinkamancers are preoccupied in thinkspace...

So next comic the Thinkamancers definitively tell Parson he's not going through the portal, and Parson says "Too late. Buh-bye" and ends transmission.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby 0beron » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:20 am

wrecan wrote:I wonder if Parson's declaration that "I'm going. Through. The Portal. Isaac." is actually representing Parson's physical effort to move forward and into the portal with his screen of casters while all the Thinkamancers are preoccupied in thinkspace...
So next comic the Thinkamancers definitively tell Parson he's not going through the portal, and Parson says "Too late. Buh-bye" and ends transmission.

Possibly, but doubtful. Other casters are still watching. In fact, all of the Great Minds going into Thinkspace actually has me concerned, because they're paying that much less attention to whatever the Carnies are doing. True, the Predictamancers are still watching, but this move results in fewer eyes on the "enemy".
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby effataigus » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:37 am

wrecan wrote:I wonder if Parson's declaration that "I'm going. Through. The Portal. Isaac." is actually representing Parson's physical effort to move forward and into the portal with his screen of casters while all the Thinkamancers are preoccupied in thinkspace...


I really like this idea... it would be clever for Parson to have used the conversation to figure out how to appear to be stationary in thinkspace, while actually strolling out. I don't think it's correct however, since the plan working would make the whole conversation between the carnymancers extra pointless.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby bladestorm » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:55 am

wrecan wrote:I wonder if Parson's declaration that "I'm going. Through. The Portal. Isaac." is actually representing Parson's physical effort to move forward and into the portal with his screen of casters while all the Thinkamancers are preoccupied in thinkspace...

So next comic the Thinkamancers definitively tell Parson he's not going through the portal, and Parson says "Too late. Buh-bye" and ends transmission.

It would be another example of Parson using something he saw someone else do (Maggie running to his location while in thinkspace), and using it in a completely different fashion. That would make it a statement of activity rather than a statement of intent.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby Lamech » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:47 am

Chit Rule Railroad wrote:
Oberon wrote:
Goshen wrote:Stanley certainly wouldn't like that! What does it take for Wanda, or any other unit, to decide to split off without their overlord's permission?
While I can be proven wrong by future events, Wanda has been very loyal to Stanley, and has stated categorically that Charley, as an attuned tool wielder, would be the last person GK would attack. So I am not seeing any incentive for Wanda to split from GK and place herself at odds with Stanley.

Doing something without his permission is not the same as opposing him. We already know Wanda believes that asking for forgiveness can be better than asking for permission.
Hmm... the question would be if Stanley flips out or accepts it then.

The way this seems to be heading is Parson gets trapped in JS, and the garrison is started on fire. Parson probably dies as far as JS or Charlie knows. Of course, by taking the garrison Wanda can claim the city, and everyone can pop back out to the MK. This should be an unequivocally good thing if everyone plays nice. The new side is handed over to a random warlord (Sylvia sounds a good choice actually), Wanda turns back to GK and any new casters are immediately sent to GK. Happiness all around. Now if Stanley flips out though...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby 0beron » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:53 am

Lamech wrote:The way this seems to be heading is Parson gets trapped in JS, and the garrison is started on fire. Parson probably dies as far as JS or Charlie knows. Of course, by taking the garrison Wanda can claim the city, and everyone can pop back out to the MK. This should be an unequivocally good thing if everyone plays nice. The new side is handed over to a random warlord (Sylvia sounds a good choice actually), Wanda turns back to GK and any new casters are immediately sent to GK. Happiness all around. Now if Stanley flips out though...

This strategy overlooks several glaring errors.
  • Parson would return to the MK, and thus Charlie would know he lived, so nothing gained by deception there
  • You're ignoring the massive expense of appointing an Heir Designate, which is what Wanda would have to do to give the new side to Sylvia...even though she is a brand new Overlady with a presumably empty treasury.
  • You're assuming the new Overlady Firebaugh CAN then just turn willy-nilly back to GK, especially when she is now Ruler of a different side.
  • We have no idea how the Decrypted may be affected by Wanda turning.

If there is going to be a new side formed via Wanda, she will definitely be keeping it, and she/Parson/Maggie will convince Stanley the wisdom of it after the fact.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby bladestorm » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:59 pm

Lamech wrote:Hmm... the question would be if Stanley flips out or accepts it then.

The way this seems to be heading is Parson gets trapped in JS, and the garrison is started on fire. Parson probably dies as far as JS or Charlie knows. Of course, by taking the garrison Wanda can claim the city, and everyone can pop back out to the MK. This should be an unequivocally good thing if everyone plays nice. The new side is handed over to a random warlord (Sylvia sounds a good choice actually), Wanda turns back to GK and any new casters are immediately sent to GK. Happiness all around. Now if Stanley flips out though...

I was with you up until the part about popping back out into the MK. It'd be much easier for Wanda to just claim the new city and split off onto her own side, then form an immediate alliance with GK so that Stanley knows that there is no intent on becoming an enemy side. Some systems even have a tribute system set up where the newly branched out side pays a certain amount to the side that spawned them. The 0 upkeep on the decrypted should make that really easy to cover, so Stanley has a new form of income, and can focus on his own army.

Wanda's gonna need a CWL, since I highly doubt Stanley is gonna let her leave with anything other than decrypted. Ansom is the obvious choice if Wanda can negotiate for his return, which should be a lot easier since he'd be serving Wanda rather than Stanley. Then we have Sylvia, who shares a similar fatalism as Wanda, and is showing quite a bit of initiative towards the destruction of her enemies. Archer also seems to be getting a job done, but in a completely different manner than Sylvia. Antium is also a strong choice since his experience is dictating that certain actions need to be done with a certain priority (the arguments about seizing the Garrison before Wanda ever entered the portal, the negligible effect of Parson's bonus provided they acted quickly enough, the statement about how the search and destroy should have already been done, etc). KC was a CWL previously, but I don't know enough about his record to make much of an argument for him. Sylvia definitely seems to be a fan favourite.

As a side note, it seems that the GMtTA are putting Parson in a very bad predicament by pushing him against Charlie, since that goes against the Toolist movement. In order for him to be effective, he's going to need to be on a side that actually has a beef with Charlie, other than just a personal dislike from the Overlord. Tool vs Tool action is not something the current attuned are wanting.

This may be a setup for Parson to get tGMtTA's side of the argument, and then have him captured by Charlie to explain HIS side of the conflict, allowing Parson to choose which side he want to follow. And of course Charlie is gonna make Charlescomm seem like a thornless rose garden compared the pit of vitriol that tGMtTA slither in.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby cheeseaholic » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:18 pm

I'd like to point out that if Wanda goes independent and manages to take her decrypted with her there's going to be a lot of battles in GK cities as unled infantry go ballistic.

That or Stanley gets them. Which could be...interesting.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby Lamech » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:54 pm

0beron wrote:
Lamech wrote:The way this seems to be heading is Parson gets trapped in JS, and the garrison is started on fire. Parson probably dies as far as JS or Charlie knows. Of course, by taking the garrison Wanda can claim the city, and everyone can pop back out to the MK. This should be an unequivocally good thing if everyone plays nice. The new side is handed over to a random warlord (Sylvia sounds a good choice actually), Wanda turns back to GK and any new casters are immediately sent to GK. Happiness all around. Now if Stanley flips out though...

Parson would return to the MK, and thus Charlie would know he lived, so nothing gained by deception there
I think you misunderstood. Charlie assumes that if Wanda and Parson get trapped in a burning garrison their in trouble. So he possibly will be very happy with "trapping" them there. Then he'll boop a brick when Parson strides back into the magic kingdom, but that's neither here not their.
You're ignoring the massive expense of appointing an Heir Designate, which is what Wanda would have to do to give the new side to Sylvia...even though she is a brand new Overlady with a presumably empty treasury.
GK has plenty of cash floating around. The extra income will overrun that cost eventually.
You're assuming the new Overlady Firebaugh CAN then just turn willy-nilly back to GK, especially when she is now Ruler of a different side.
She can abdicate if need be. At least Tram seemed to think that was possible. Make Sylvia the ruler.
We have no idea how the Decrypted may be affected by Wanda turning.
That might be a problem if they all turn to her side, however I'm not sure why they would. Presumably they would follow her orders, but if she orders them to remain GK units...

If there is going to be a new side formed via Wanda, she will definitely be keeping it, and she/Parson/Maggie will convince Stanley the wisdom of it after the fact.
[/quote]
I would suspect she would rather continue with her plot of "get all arkentools on one side". Or she might keep it. But agreed on convincing Stanley after the fact. Or failing to convince Stanley after the fact as the case may be.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 92

Postby 0beron » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:02 pm

Lamech wrote:
I wrote:You're ignoring the massive expense of appointing an Heir Designate, which is what Wanda would have to do to give the new side to Sylvia...even though she is a brand new Overlady with a presumably empty treasury.
GK has plenty of cash floating around. The extra income will overrun that cost eventually.
Exactly, GK has tons of cash....if Wanda forms a new side, that cash is no longer hers to access!
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