Book 2 – Page 93

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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby 0beron » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:04 pm

onlyme wrote:Haven't you seen that gem Charlie sent? I doubt you need such a big gem only to promote someone to heir.
And I'm not really sure there is any direct indication appointing CWLs cost money. Is there?

Charlie and Trem discussed it here: http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -09-15.jpg
5,000 per archon, and there were what, 2 dozen of them in the airspace? Someone has done the math before, but the short answer is yes, that size of gem really could be used JUST to promote Trem to Heir.
As for appointing CWL, it's been mentioned on numerous occasions, I believe it is part of what emptied Jetstone's treasury in the first place.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby bladestorm » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:23 pm

fehler wrote:Where is the non-dittoed Jetstone-pack?

Maybe it was on the corpse, and he was trading the ditto'd pack for the real pack in the one panel where it is hard to see if he is wearing the pack?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby mortissimus » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:27 pm

When Tremennis was promoted to CW there was no mention of cost: http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/?px=%2F2009-12-18.jpg

And I can't remember that being mentioned before either.

It is very possible that the King can not be CW, but if they have any warlord they could make CW and send with the king that should be profitable in terms of bonus. OTOH, making a non-royal CW perhaps goes against Jetstone's ideals.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby mortissimus » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:30 pm

bladestorm wrote:
fehler wrote:Where is the non-dittoed Jetstone-pack?

Maybe it was on the corpse, and he was trading the ditto'd pack for the real pack in the one panel where it is hard to see if he is wearing the pack?


In panels 4, 5 and 6 Ace has one on his back and one under his arm. In panel 2 he has none, which I think is a mistake.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby Justyn » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:32 pm

bladestorm wrote:The topic came up in the discussion of IPtSF Episode 043, where Marika disobeyed Jillians orders and was intentionally insubordinant.
Also came up Book 2 Page 56, concerning Transylvito, and broadened out to cover other instances on page 10.
Mentioned earlier in this very forum discussion about suppressing the autodisband.
Book 2 Page 69, Discussion page 7
Book 2 Text Update 054 With Cubbins refusing to leave the tower when order to do so, instead popping a cap on his own initiative and leading to his CMoA.
Kreistor brings it up again in the discussion of IPtSF Episode 029 page 7 concerning every example we have of a warlord disobeying an order had some sort of justification. This continues on into a debate over Obedience and Duty, which has a separate discussion forum.
IPtSF Episode 034 brought it up in reference to Marie's prediction and outright lying to the King, and using Fate as an excuse to loophole around the autodisband.

The topic comes up quite a bit concerning Erfworlders, so it's not something linked to the SPW spell.


Alternatively, there is no autodisband for regular units. The reason the people who disobey orders don't disband isn't because they believe in the heart of the cards, but because they just don't disband unless their Ruler, lack of upkeep, or fall of the Side disbands them.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby bladestorm » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:51 pm

mortissimus wrote:
bladestorm wrote:
fehler wrote:Where is the non-dittoed Jetstone-pack?

Maybe it was on the corpse, and he was trading the ditto'd pack for the real pack in the one panel where it is hard to see if he is wearing the pack?


In panels 4, 5 and 6 Ace has one on his back and one under his arm. In panel 2 he has none, which I think is a mistake.

I see part of something that could be a jetpack in panel 2, but most of it is obscured by the crown/brain thingy. Considering the amount of emotion captured in the other panels, a barely visible jetpack in one panel isn't that big of a deal.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby mortissimus » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Oh yeah, you are right. The one under the arm is there in panel two (most visible below the arm). The one on the back is missing.

It is no biggie, just figuring if Rob or Xin is reading and it is a miss then they have the chance of correcting it if it is pointed out.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby Kyrt » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:35 pm

elecampane wrote:First, art here is awersome.
Second, has Ace burned Slately's body, or has he forgotten because he became ditracted by the necessity of saving Cubbins? The town will be burned soon anyway, though.


I'm not sure mere burning would be good enough....a lot of GKs current army was "burned up" by a volcano.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby Justyn » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:56 pm

Kyrt wrote:
elecampane wrote:First, art here is awersome.
Second, has Ace burned Slately's body, or has he forgotten because he became ditracted by the necessity of saving Cubbins? The town will be burned soon anyway, though.


I'm not sure mere burning would be good enough....a lot of GKs current army was "burned up" by a volcano.


Well, the difference between them is that while the bodies of the coalition were killed by a fire, Bogroll's body was specifically destroyed.

It's also possible that it's a matter of severity of damage to the body. Bogroll was reduced to cinders, whereas a lot were presumably killed via smoke inhalation, toxic gas, extreme heat, pyroclastic flow, or caught in a cave-in rather than being caught by the lava. Given that Gobwin Knob on is a stratovolcano, it's safe to say that it would put out thicker, cooler felsic lava, which doesn't actually flow very well because of its viscosity... think cool honey or molasses.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby Cubbins » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:01 pm

0beron wrote:Also speaking of Ace/Cubbins....I may be a biased fanboy for saying this, but I have a bit of a request. So far the comic has kinda taken the typical internet slant of "ooooooh sexy lesbian action!" while ignoring the gays. So could we maybe get a little something? A kiss, a flashback in a text update? Just a little something similar to Wanda/Olive and Wanda/Jillian to make the gaymers cheer.
No-One kinda mentioned it in a thread over here so if the readers have opinions on the lesbian/gay imbalance, maybe we should discuss there instead of the main thread.


:oops:

Well...Ace really does make good toys, and he sure knows how to use them!

(Did...did I say that out loud? All of that debris landing on top of me must've caused some serious brainlashing...)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby 0beron » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:24 pm

Cubbins wrote: :oops:
Well...Ace really does make good toys, and he sure knows how to use them!

Oh....oh my, that made ME blush. I appreciate your humor.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby name lips » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:42 pm

Regular non-commander units CAN'T disobey an order. There's no need for an auto-disband feature, they can't make that decision anyway. A commander tells them to do something, they do it, even if it's obviously a bad decision or suicidal.

I can't remember character's mentioning auto-disband for commanders either. I remember Stanley threatening to disband Parson for disobeying, but it sounded like something along the lines of "why on earth would you disobey me? You have no rationale to explain it, and I could disband you in an eyeblink, so why are you doing it?" It was part of his confusion for Parson failing to "inspect" the city properly. Parson didn't know what inspection was. As far as Stanley was concerned, ignorance isn't just not an excuse, it's an impossibility. Even if you don't understand the order, you obey it. Even if you're a non-sentient golem or uncroaked unit, you obey it. Even if you're unaware of the order being given, you obey it. Even if you don't speak Language, you obey it. That's the way Erfworld works.

Unless your duty compels you to, as a commander, challenge the order. And I'm pretty sure the Ruler could STILL force the issue, if he wanted to. Or simply choose to disband the commander for disloyalty, which might discourage future challenges.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby Cubbins » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:24 pm

name lips wrote:Regular non-commander units CAN'T disobey an order. There's no need for an auto-disband feature, they can't make that decision anyway. A commander tells them to do something, they do it, even if it's obviously a bad decision or suicidal.


Y'know, thinking about that...Stanley himself was popped as nothing more than a regular Piker. When you Promote someone that (apparently) has no ability to comprehend Duty (I hesitate to say 'isn't free willed', as I don't recall if that's ever been explicitly mentioned, but it's along those lines) to a position that, quite suddenly, grants it...I'm having a hard time even imagining what that's like from a Stupidworld perspective. We do know that when Parson promoted himself to a field unit, his knees immediately buckled just from the simple, physical transition to improved movement capabilities (along with Parson pulling a Keanu).

It might have some similarity to the idea of a computer system obtaining self-awareness and eventual AI, but we already know that Erfworld Units, even 'regular' ones, possess emotions and desires, so at the same time, it wouldn't be like the aforementioned computer scenario at all. Maybe this is why Stanley possesses 'cognitive limitations'? Personally, I don't think he's unintelligent; I think, perhaps, he's literally unequipped to handle something like Duty.

What other examples do we have of 'regular units' being promoted to Warlords? I think all of the comic instances occurred in Gobwin Knob...maybe those Warlords had the same limitations Stanley does, which is why they didn't perform as well? Every other side I've seen pops Warlords into the position by default; if the side in question needs a new Warlord, they'll pop one, not promote a 'regular unit' to the position, even if funds are running short (after all, that's how we got Wanda, if I'm to understand Goodminton's treasury issues at the time of her popping).

Apologies if I'm off-base with these speculations, what name_lips said just kinda made me wonder...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby Saladman » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:58 pm

elecampane wrote:First, art here is awersome.


Yes!

elecampane wrote:Second, has Ace burned Slately's body, or has he forgotten because he became ditracted by the necessity of saving Cubbins? The town will be burned soon anyway, though.


I assume it happened off screen. The last thing this comic needs given the once-a-week release schedule is us demanding to see every little damn thing on page for it to have happened.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby bladestorm » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:40 am

Cubbins wrote:
0beron wrote:Also speaking of Ace/Cubbins....I may be a biased fanboy for saying this, but I have a bit of a request. So far the comic has kinda taken the typical internet slant of "ooooooh sexy lesbian action!" while ignoring the gays. So could we maybe get a little something? A kiss, a flashback in a text update? Just a little something similar to Wanda/Olive and Wanda/Jillian to make the gaymers cheer.
No-One kinda mentioned it in a thread over here so if the readers have opinions on the lesbian/gay imbalance, maybe we should discuss there instead of the main thread.


:oops:

Well...Ace really does make good toys, and he sure knows how to use them!

(Did...did I say that out loud? All of that debris landing on top of me must've caused some serious brainlashing...)

So if Ace ever gets on GK's side, he'll have plenty of requests for his toys. Wanda could request a vibrating death's head sceptre, jet black with a skull (with a cute little flower) on top. Maggie could request something between a wand and a jackhammer; she's been needing something to help her relax a little and her linking with Sizemore has introduced her to a fondness of things that are rock hard (baby all night. love is like a glove and it fits just right). Maybe even something with a little shockamancy built in. And how many decrypted Archons are there still?

On a more somber note, a dollamancer on GK's side would find almost no end to the requests for his abilities. Parson and accessories? Yes, please. Drawing upon memories of Erfworld and all of the off-the-wall GIJoe ripoffs, GK could have an army that would look like a toy-line catalog. Sizemore making golems and the Dollamancer making golems, maybe even combining golem creation (acid-washed jean golem? Grunge golem?) Thinkamancy link on a Dollamancer to expand the abilities? Wanda's personal requests for new wardrobe? Stanley in a purple pimp suit complete with a feathered hat and a walking stick? Bogroll in a fireproof "do-over" shirt. Maybe Parson can finally get those pizza stains out of his own clothes. Vurp upgrading to full Destroyer attire, complete with 7 inch leather heels with metal teeth. Change any remaining decrypted Archons over to different uniforms as a further remove from Charlescomm. Spiked weaponry for the hobgoblins. Hang glider hobgoblins. Dress a heavy hobgoblin up as Wolverine, complete with retractable claw gauntlets. Not to mention GK is popping Twolls who have natural Fabrication dollamancy.... would a Dollamancer help boost that? A stuffed doll shaped like Bogroll that follows very simple instructions? Armour all of the dwagons that Stanley tames with the Hammer? So many possibilities... Ace would be very happy there (especially if they also had Cubbins).

Adding Cubbins to the mix means they would have reliable communication that doesn't channel directly through Charlescomm (that we know of). He'd also bring in the ability to make the snow golems.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby Avic » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:07 am

Cubbins wrote:What other examples do we have of 'regular units' being promoted to Warlords?



Sylvia of Unaroyal was a common stabber before Jeffy casted on her, after which she was promoted to Warlord.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby Whispri » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:51 am

0beron wrote:Charlie and Trem discussed it here: http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -09-15.jpg
5,000 per archon, and there were what, 2 dozen of them in the airspace? Someone has done the math before, but the short answer is yes, that size of gem really could be used JUST to promote Trem to Heir.

By my count, there were 30+.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby Oberon » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:40 am

mortissimus wrote:In panels 4, 5 and 6 Ace has [a jetpack] on his back and one under his arm. In panel 2 he has none, which I think is a mistake.
It's also not visible in panels 9 or 10, which makes me think that it's not intended to stick up so high as to be always visible from the front.

Those cloth golems look mean.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby Cubbins » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:21 am

Avic wrote:Sylvia of Unaroyal was a common stabber before Jeffy casted on her, after which she was promoted to Warlord.


Reading that comic now, actually. She refers to the event so off-handedly, like it wasn't a completely mind-altering experience suddenly having the ability to, well, choose (then again, this might be partly due to the influence of Decryption, Wanda being in the battlespace or not). I dunno...

Maybe being Promoted would be similar to someone who initially only sees in black-and-white (and has only ever seen black-and-white) suddenly being able to perceive colors. Like, you can't really explain what 'blue' is to someone else with mere words. You can reference physical phenomena that just happen to be 'blue', and you can quantitatively pin down the wavelengths of visible light needed to produce 'blue'. But in order to really understand what 'blue' is, you have to be able to -see- it.

I wonder if anyone who browses these boards was born lacking a sense but, through recent medical breakthroughs, has had it 'reactivated' in some capacity, and if so maybe they could tell us (as best they can, anyway) what that experience is like.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 93

Postby Aquillion » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:51 pm

Brucester wrote:
0beron wrote:
hajo wrote:We didn't miss [fire destroying corpses] - Bogroll's body was burned, and Wanda couldn't decrypt him.

Hmmmm I had forgotten that tidbit. However, I wouldn't say that was fire, that was because his body was presumably separated into bits without enough left to decrypt. However, now that you bring up the example of the volcano, it complicates things. Most of those bodies burned too, but she decrypted them. So this either means they didn't burn *enough* or decryption can bypass that unlike uncroaking.


Yep, GK was destroyed by volcanic eruption and yet Wanda was able to uncroak those who died in fire.
What you see in this strip is an assumption on the part of Jetstone. Trem assumes that if the body is destroyed in fire that it cannot be uncroaked.
It could also be that "burning" a body is a specific action that you take to destroy it, and that lava doesn't count.

Whether setting the city on fire would count or not is unknown.
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