Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby Lamech » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:16 pm

Radagast wrote:
Is "the rest of the joke" about the Pedobear the fact that it uses pedals to move around or is there more to come?

Partially the pure evil and partially the pedals. I wonder if that item increases move. I actually recall I think Japanese using bikes to move troops to take some sort of victory. So maybe is a working thing. Then who made the item? Unless the bear has dollamancy!

Also highly decorated? I wonder if that does anything...
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby wrecan » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:44 pm

The tricycle, like the paddleboat, would be a function of turnamancy, not dollamancy. Maybe the pedobear pops with a trike as a sort of natural turnamancy.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby Shai_hulud » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:48 pm

bladestorm wrote:According to the Wiki, Jillian is around 700 turns old, which means all of the events in Book 0 transpired within that time, with the exception of the earlier days of Wanda's existence.
It says that she is at more 700 turns old, but it doesn't say where the number came from, so it could be way more. That wiki page even still says her name is Zamussels, which seems to not be true.
bladestorm wrote:the bad blood between Wanda and Ansom (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F122.jpg), an introduction between Ansom and Jillian, and a basis for the inflated ego all of the Jetstones have.
I'm pretty sure she means fate/Jillian.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby Oberon » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:13 pm

cloudbreaker wrote:Jillian is currently sharing her turn with Haffaton. So if she does manage to take the city, would she still be able to leave, or would she be stuck in the city with her Move dropped to 0?
The game prevents turn abuse by preventing a side which has ended it's turn from acting even if it allies with a side which still has a turn or is in the middle of a turn. The same should apply to a fugitive. So I'm rooting for "stuck in the city with her Move dropped to 0." If Jillian takes Goodminton and ends her fugitive state, this should also end her turn and have her be placed wherever FAQ fits into the turn sequence on the next turn.
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Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby Sieggy » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:20 pm

Radagast wrote:
Finally #2, I wonder how they tamed the Pedobear?


A Honey Trap, of course.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby bladestorm » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:40 pm

Sieggy wrote:
Radagast wrote:
Finally #2, I wonder how they tamed the Pedobear?


A Honey Trap, of course.

I don't think they really tamed it. They either had it in a cage or on a chain. Cut it loose when the action starts and make sure your own guys stay out of its way.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby bladestorm » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:47 pm

vintermann wrote: Some people decided to take offense at even the mention of that meme, and got into an argument with the author on Google+. Balder was angry, responded by closing comments on his Google+ announcement threads and said something to the effect of "just wait until you see the second part of that joke". I thought he had decided against it since Goodminton fell and nothing more was said of the bear, but here it is :D Evidence that Jillian coming upon Goodminton on her escape from Haffaton was planned for quite a while, so it's probably real important for the story.

So in a world that has no children, but everything is designed like it was made safe and for children, just how threatening would the bear be? Either it will have no targets at all, since everyone pops as an adult (with fully functioning adult parts), or EVERYthing will be a target and he's gonna make honeybadger look like a pansy.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby Whispri » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:39 pm

0beron wrote:It all depends on whether Haffaton is Royal or not. Also, even if it isn't, the whole Titanic Mandate thing may not be a lie. In a world where "lineage" isn't a biological thing, a Royal that pops could still be considered "descended" from some original Ruler of World. We don't really know how sides even come into existence in the first place, so it's hard to pin these factors down.

The whole Royal Titanic Madate thing... in a gamelike World, being put in place by the creator... doesn't that make you an NPC?

0beron wrote:The signs of battle are...interesting. The fact that it is a level 2 means Haffaton razed and rebuilt it, so why would there be a recent battle? Especially one in which Haffaton units seemed to be on the offensive rather than defensive? Something is definitely fishy here....

Also interesting to get confirmation that city sites "come" with the name and it doesn't change when they are razed and rebuilt. Well, unless Haffaton let Wanda name it.

I'm pretty sure the City being a 2 just means that a lot of the buildings fell into ruin, the description of the City, hard as rock against ground attack with a hastily tacked on tower, fits Wanda's City like a glove.

Still, both gates being gone makes it seem very unlikely that this is the debris from the battle that left Wanda a Barbarian. If there'd been a column of Siege on the road to Coolminton, she'd have smashed into it. I suppose there are other ways to reach a gate, but all the same.

Arky wrote:Do we have a rough map as to where Gobwin Knob is? My first thought on seeing that Goodminton is in the mountains about a dozen turns by dragon from FAQ was actually that Goodminton IS Gobwin Knob (which would make these events and Jillian and Wanda a bit older than they appear to be).

Yes we do, Gobwin Knob is one of Faq's neighbours, lying a couple of Turns flight to the East. And also, Gobwin Knob is a Volcano Lair with one road leading to it. Goodminton has two roads leading to it and is not a Volcano Lair.

Arky wrote:But Jillian would know about Goodminton if FAQ had been involved in hitting it, and clearly she doesn't.

Goodminton is a capital site, not Haffaton's Capital. We know that some city sites are designated capital sites and only these can be capitals. That's the key to Charlie and Slately's current plan.. because Spacerock is built on a long-ago captured capital site, and they are able to move the capital back to the city of Jetstone, the original capital site of that side.

I don't think we saw Haffaton's Capital before Goodminton's fall. The city where Wanda met Olive was not the capital.

Nope, as she was popped long after the Side had fallen. She must have been, as she was popped in response to Marie's Prediction relating to Faq's destruction. And that was made after Marie met Wanda, thirteenish Turns before Goodminton was anihilated by hands unknown.

Yes. And back when Goodminton was fighting Haffaton, they held at least nine Cities (not counting the three they lost in the fight) and were right on Goodminton's doorstep. The City Jillian called the Capital of Haffaton is far too far away from Goodminton to have been the Side's Capital at that time.

Well no we didn't. Point is, Haffaton was Goodminton's neighbour. And in part one of Book Zero, there was no suggestion of Haffaton controlling as much territory back then as they do now.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby Radagast » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:56 pm

Whispri wrote:I'm pretty sure the City being a 2 just means that a lot of the buildings fell into ruin, the description of the City, hard as rock against ground attack with a hastily tacked on tower, fits Wanda's City like a glove.

Still, both gates being gone makes it seem very unlikely that this is the debris from the battle that left Wanda a Barbarian. If there'd been a column of Siege on the road to Coolminton, she'd have smashed into it. I suppose there are other ways to reach a gate, but all the same.


We already know that the siege units that attacked were forest-capable. They probably watched Wanda & Co walk right by them, then went after the city.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby Whispri » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:34 am

Radagast wrote:We already know that the siege units that attacked were forest-capable. They probably watched Wanda & Co walk right by them, then went after the city.

We do not. We know a pair of Units that happened to be in the City at the moment Jillian entered it are forest-capable. You shouldn't take Jillian's wild speculation as fact. I mean, we've never seen Gumps used as Siege...
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby effataigus » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:18 am

bladestorm wrote:Things that would help this process:
...

Haha, nice :P

Oberon wrote:
cloudbreaker wrote:Jillian is currently sharing her turn with Haffaton. So if she does manage to take the city, would she still be able to leave, or would she be stuck in the city with her Move dropped to 0?
The game prevents turn abuse by preventing a side which has ended it's turn from acting even if it allies with a side which still has a turn or is in the middle of a turn. The same should apply to a fugitive. So I'm rooting for "stuck in the city with her Move dropped to 0."

I'm guessing you're right, though only until the end of Haffaton's turn (sorta). If she resumes Faq's turn order then she can't not get another turn before Haffaton. If I recall correctly, the archons in GK only couldn't move across city zone boundaries because their move had dropped to 0, so in theory Jillian would get more move at the start of her next turn even if it were on the same day.
Whispri wrote:
Radagast wrote:We already know that the siege units that attacked were forest-capable. They probably watched Wanda & Co walk right by them, then went after the city.

We do not. We know a pair of Units that happened to be in the City at the moment Jillian entered it are forest-capable. You shouldn't take Jillian's wild speculation as fact. I mean, we've never seen Gumps used as Siege...
These aren't gumps, and I don't believe we have any reason to believe Jillian is an unreliable narrator here. Even if just possible, it is a way that Wanda might have missed the attackers on her way out by road.

That said, I agree with your first statement, that this does look like Wanda's city, so I don't believe it was raised and rebuilt in the interim.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby Lamech » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:46 am

Oberon wrote:
cloudbreaker wrote:Jillian is currently sharing her turn with Haffaton. So if she does manage to take the city, would she still be able to leave, or would she be stuck in the city with her Move dropped to 0?
The game prevents turn abuse by preventing a side which has ended it's turn from acting even if it allies with a side which still has a turn or is in the middle of a turn. The same should apply to a fugitive. So I'm rooting for "stuck in the city with her Move dropped to 0." If Jillian takes Goodminton and ends her fugitive state, this should also end her turn and have her be placed wherever FAQ fits into the turn sequence on the next turn.
Immediately slotting her in to the FAQ move regen cycle would cause problems. She would get Haffaton move and FAQ move. I think it would make most sense when units regained their move is always decided at the start of the day.

Jillian getting to keep her move wouldn't open anything up for abuse. She gets one set of moves each day. But if she got to take FAQ move today then you would have a problem.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby Whispri » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:42 pm

Suppose for a moment that Wanda had been traded away to Haffaton after their Turn, but prior to Goodminton's. Does she get to refresh her juice/move/hits/cleanliness at all that day? Theoretically, you could prevent her from having a Turn for years on end via the means of constant trading. And if a day's Turn could be lost in that fashion, why shouldn't it be possible for an extra Turn be gained?

effataigus wrote: These aren't gumps, and I don't believe we have any reason to believe Jillian is an unreliable narrator here. Even if just possible, it is a way that Wanda might have missed the attackers on her way out by road.

They are however, compared to Gumps. Like that, only worse. As for the Lumberjill, her status as a blithering idiot with the tactical and strategic ability of a rabid teabag is neither here nor there, point is, she wasn't present for the battle and was only guessing when she decided it wos the Tannenbaum wot dunnit. Oh and as I said earlier, there are other ways to reach a gate, but all the same.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby name lips » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:40 pm

I guess the big question here is the timeline...

1) Wanda captured/converted
2) Jillian popped
3) Jillian captured/escaped

This seems to be the correct sequence. But how many turns elapsed between them? If it's been hundreds of turns, it's quite possible that Goodminton has some additional history we don't know about.

Personally I think that what we're seeing is the remains of Haffaton conquerqing Goodminton. They captured the city, destroyed the side, got Wanda, upgraded the garrison (just in case), and then largely forgot about the city entirely. There are technically some units left to defend it, but no serious Haffaton presence. Probably after it was captured, there were no nearby credible threats so there was no reason to do anything more with the city. It was forgotten in favor of the actual front lines and "core" upgraded cities that actually provide Haffaton's economy and units.

The odd thing is that Jillian at once is believing she's a few turns from home AND has no knowledge of this city. Wouldn't Faq have reasonable knowledge of all nearby cities? Jillian in particular has experience sneaking in and out of Faq along back routes and byways. Faq has flying scouts that can be hidden with Foolamancy, it has a Lookamancer, it has a vested interest in remaining hidden and knowing exactly what's going on on its borders. How is it that Goodminton apparently has been missed?

Plot-wise, Jillian might learn something about Wanda here that makes her sympathetic, or makes her realize that Wanda's true goal is to destroy Haffaton. If she realizes they both have that goal in common, things could get interesting.

Also, we now know that Jillian and Wanda both know the location of Goodminton, and that it is a capital site. Wanda can re-found her side there, bordering Faq.

Do we have any idea where Charlie lives, relative to all this?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby DoctorJest » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:29 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:That wiki page even still says her name is Zamussels, which seems to not be true


Unless we have good reason to believe Prince Ansom was a.) wrong b.) lying when he called her "Commander Zamussels" in TBFGK, then we can assume it is, in fact, her name.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby DoctorJest » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:34 pm

bladestorm wrote:
vintermann wrote: Some people decided to take offense at even the mention of that meme, and got into an argument with the author on Google+. Balder was angry, responded by closing comments on his Google+ announcement threads and said something to the effect of "just wait until you see the second part of that joke". I thought he had decided against it since Goodminton fell and nothing more was said of the bear, but here it is :D Evidence that Jillian coming upon Goodminton on her escape from Haffaton was planned for quite a while, so it's probably real important for the story.

So in a world that has no children, but everything is designed like it was made safe and for children, just how threatening would the bear be? Either it will have no targets at all, since everyone pops as an adult (with fully functioning adult parts), or EVERYthing will be a target and he's gonna make honeybadger look like a pansy.


I think the second half of the joke is that it's pedaling, AND is using child-like items, not that it molests anyone.
It's a linguistic joke creating a dual meaning by playing on the similarities in the Greek "Ped" meaning child/slave and the Latin "Ped" meaning foot, twisting the pop culture term around to mean something new as the comic often does.

At least that was my take on it.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby DoctorJest » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:45 pm

Whispri wrote:The whole Royal Titanic Madate thing... in a gamelike World, being put in place by the creator... doesn't that make you an NPC?


"Are you a player or a game piece" seems to be a major theme the comic is emphasizing. Note Parson's reaction at the end of Book 1.

Still, both gates being gone makes it seem very unlikely that this is the debris from the battle that left Wanda a Barbarian. If there'd been a column of Siege on the road to Coolminton, she'd have smashed into it. I suppose there are other ways to reach a gate, but all the same.


What makes you think that? They could have come from another direction, or crossed where Wanda was after Wanda had gone, so she missed it. There's no reason they would have had to have crossed Wanda's path.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby name lips » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:08 pm

DoctorJest wrote:
Whispri wrote:

Still, both gates being gone makes it seem very unlikely that this is the debris from the battle that left Wanda a Barbarian. If there'd been a column of Siege on the road to Coolminton, she'd have smashed into it. I suppose there are other ways to reach a gate, but all the same.


What makes you think that? They could have come from another direction, or crossed where Wanda was after Wanda had gone, so she missed it. There's no reason they would have had to have crossed Wanda's path.

Also, we've seen two major, capital city fights in the comics. One took most of Book 1. The second is still going on.

A LOT can happen in one turn. Plans shift, things change, and the characters live hundreds of what we would call "hours" before the turn ends. Who knows how complex and hairy that battle got, with pushes and retreats, clever plans and failures, caster shenanigans and diplomacy tricks, before the city finally fell. Wanda was unaware of any of that, and her father didn't contact her until the end of the battle, when all hope was lost. So she was unaware that while to her mere minutes had passed, but possibly hours or dozens of hours might have passed back home.

In a world where time doesn't flow the same everywhere, this is an unusual thing to think about. To people unconnected with the battle, it's over in a twinkling.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby Whispri » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:15 pm

name lips wrote:I guess the big question here is the timeline...

1) Wanda captured/converted
2) Jillian popped
3) Jillian captured/escaped

This seems to be the correct sequence. But how many turns elapsed between them? If it's been hundreds of turns, it's quite possible that Goodminton has some additional history we don't know about.

Personally I think that what we're seeing is the remains of Haffaton conquerqing Goodminton. They captured the city, destroyed the side, got Wanda, upgraded the garrison (just in case), and then largely forgot about the city entirely. There are technically some units left to defend it, but no serious Haffaton presence. Probably after it was captured, there were no nearby credible threats so there was no reason to do anything more with the city. It was forgotten in favor of the actual front lines and "core" upgraded cities that actually provide Haffaton's economy and units.

The odd thing is that Jillian at once is believing she's a few turns from home AND has no knowledge of this city. Wouldn't Faq have reasonable knowledge of all nearby cities? Jillian in particular has experience sneaking in and out of Faq along back routes and byways. Faq has flying scouts that can be hidden with Foolamancy, it has a Lookamancer, it has a vested interest in remaining hidden and knowing exactly what's going on on its borders. How is it that Goodminton apparently has been missed?

Plot-wise, Jillian might learn something about Wanda here that makes her sympathetic, or makes her realize that Wanda's true goal is to destroy Haffaton. If she realizes they both have that goal in common, things could get interesting.

Also, we now know that Jillian and Wanda both know the location of Goodminton, and that it is a capital site. Wanda can re-found her side there, bordering Faq.

Do we have any idea where Charlie lives, relative to all this?

For a start, you speak a few times of Jillian being very close to home, she is not, she is further away from home, in terms of travel time at least, than Spacerock is from Gobwin Knob, 3 days flight into a trip that takes 11-12.

You ask where Charlie lives, he's pretty close to Gobwin Knob, been spoken of as a neighbour.

About the timeframe, it's been long enough for Wanda to gain a reputation as Haffaton's Chief Conqueress, that must mean hundreds of turns, I'm almost tempted to say thousands.

About the City of Goodminton's current state... how can this be the debris from the fall of the Side of Goodminton? Leaving the City like this may well make sense for modern Haffaton, but back then?

DoctorJest wrote:"Are you a player or a game piece" seems to be a major theme the comic is emphasizing. Note Parson's reaction at the end of Book 1.

What makes you think that? They could have come from another direction, or crossed where Wanda was after Wanda had gone, so she missed it. There's no reason they would have had to have crossed Wanda's path.

And it was such a lovely sword. :(

Primarily, the simple fact that we've never seen Siege Units go off road. Dwagons aside of course.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 047

Postby Salem » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:44 pm

Whispri wrote:About the City of Goodminton's current state... how can this be the debris from the fall of the Side of Goodminton? Leaving the City like this may well make sense for modern Haffaton, but back then?


I'd postulate that it's rather possible. I dunno why but I get the feeling that Haffaton's MO might at least in some portion be disproportionate response. You take a city or kill field units they mass the entire army that their large size affords them and wipe you out. So the people that believe you to be a paper tiger still run the risk of being your only enemy. What it takes to beat them would be multiple sides taking multiple cities at once making them split their forces. So with a fear tactic like that they may have only ever cared about some cities and having a giant army.

davesnothere wrote:I wonder what the upkeep and/or rations are for Tannenbaums??
Is this bear a Dollomancy item, or a native species?



It was a wild pedobear at least at some point, so native probably. Unless wild pedobear is the unit name.
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