Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

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Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:51 am

I've started this topic to remove strategy discussions from either of the campaign topics and so that both sets of players can contribute without "polluting" the ongoing action in either campaign. I'll transfer the campaign map and current discussions so we can continue from there...
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:53 am

[quote="MarbitChow"]World Map

Image
Numbers indicate the shortest-path distance between the two points. If lines do not connect two points, there is no practical path that leads directly between them.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:56 am

Exate wrote:
0beron wrote:*pouts, and goes back to daydreaming epic battles in which my golem creations dominate the field, showering me with mountains of XP*
Speaking of future battles- not to distract from immediate concerns, but do we have plans for after the fight here is concluded, assuming that nothing goes horribly wrong in the next couple rounds? Recall the world map- we'll need a strategic plan. We will have several dozen corpses to turn into uncroaked, fortunately, but it would still be difficult to assault more than one of the nearby cities without having things dissolve into a total bloodbath that would leave us crippled and without the forces for future battles- the units that they could have popped in the last few turns alone, plus those which they would pop as we approach, ensure that.

We definitely need to maintain our offensive momentum, because we simply don't have the cities to make staying on the defensive viable. I'm not sure what we can do to make that work, though; with the siege unit rules being rolled out and us currently not having any siege units, actually taking a city will be a bitch and a half unless we care to sit on our butts for several turns popping units and then slowly slog forward with our engines, at only a handful of hexes a turn. If anyone has ideas for speeding up an overland assault, I'd love to hear them.

We can probably anticipate a large enemy army approaching Rainbow Springs at roughly the speed which the elves can redeploy their field units from the front against the Ixians (call that twelve-ish turns?), so I'd be inclined to prioritize taking that city above the others on the grounds that we'll need ground to lose in order to buy time and it's easier to bleed the enemy from a defensive position. That said, the extra income from the mine near Scarlet Hills would be very helpful and Logan Run is the closest and thus most vulnerable to any attempted fast strike- our Naughty Kitties could potentially get there in three turns if for some reason we thought that we could take the city with only cavalry (unlikely, but perhaps someone has a brilliant plan). Logan Run is also on a direct line to our capital, so we could potentially raise a force there to assault it while our forward army tends to other concerns.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:58 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:On the topic of longer term plans. Might we buy siege units, if that's the case? There may be a side willing to chip in and establish a second front- the Ixians. Anyone up for a diplomatic mission there? Will may be interested.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:00 am

Nnelg wrote:
Exate wrote:Speaking of future battles- not to distract from immediate concerns, but do we have plans for after the fight here is concluded, assuming that nothing goes horribly wrong in the next couple rounds?

Well, don't forget about The New Batch. I figure that Tenebris will now have two armies to work with.

On that note, I think we (The New Batch) should take Vinny and Brick. That will give us equal numbers of PCs on each side, (not counting the NPCs being run by main-thread players) as well as an equal number of PC casters. Also, you've already got someone (Bill) in the construct department, whereas I shudder to think of the destructive potential possesed by Crypsis'd Greater Boost-Lucky Streak'd 'Splody golems...

Swodaems will, of course, determine the distribution of NPCs, although I would like to requisition Junetta if I may... But that is a discussion for a later time, perhaps.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:01 am

Exate wrote:
Nnelg wrote:
Exate wrote:Speaking of future battles- not to distract from immediate concerns, but do we have plans for after the fight here is concluded, assuming that nothing goes horribly wrong in the next couple rounds?
Well, don't forget about The New Batch. I figure that Tenebris will now have two armies to work with.
No offense to you guys, but while the extra casters are nice you don't have the numbers to make a serious impact on the strategic situation here. We still probably have enough troops to take on one city, don't have the siege to do so quickly, and probably don't have enough troops to take on two cities.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:03 am

Nnelg wrote:
Exate wrote:
Nnelg wrote:Well, don't forget about The New Batch. I figure that Tenebris will now have two armies to work with.
No offense to you guys, but while the extra casters are nice you don't have the numbers to make a serious impact on the strategic situation here. We still probably have enough troops to take on one city, don't have the siege to do so quickly, and probably don't have enough troops to take on two cities.

The elves can't be everywhere at once. I assumed we'd be splitting off some of the main army under the New Batch's command, especially that we'll have troops to spare now with all these corpses to uncroak. Golems too, should Vinny get enough EXP for lvl 2 this battle. Regus may even be able to pop new legionaries with Schmuckers, although you shouldn't take my word on that one.

Moreover, there mere fact that you now have two independent command groups fully-functional is something that definitely needs to be kept in consideration.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:05 am

Nnelg wrote:
Exate wrote:
Nnelg wrote:Well, don't forget about The New Batch. I figure that Tenebris will now have two armies to work with.
No offense to you guys, but while the extra casters are nice you don't have the numbers to make a serious impact on the strategic situation here. We still probably have enough troops to take on one city, don't have the siege to do so quickly, and probably don't have enough troops to take on two cities.

The elves can't be everywhere at once. I assumed we'd be splitting off some of the main army under the New Batch's command, especially that we'll have troops to spare now with all these corpses to uncroak. Golems too, should Vinny get enough EXP for lvl 2 this battle. Regus may even be able to pop new legionaries with Schmuckers, although you shouldn't take my word on that one.

Moreover, there mere fact that you now have two independent command groups fully-functional is something that definitely needs to be kept in consideration.



So Noted : We have 2 possible independant commmand groups.

However command groups, even robust ones (as we would have if we combined both) are unlikely to take a city by siege, ALONE. I fear Exate is right if we think about conventionally taking another city... we have resources in the casters..but just not the right resources to mount a siege. It will take us valuable time to produce and mobilise siege to the right location. And we don't want to be like the elves, who brought just enough siege to fail.
That would be the disaster the King in Green is waiting for.

So we must think creatively with what resources we have. What would entice the elves into the field ? Perhaps to support a retreat ? Is killing their last commander (and thus removing the possibility of a retreat from here) a good strategy? We already have forced Armolad from the field. Can we use that somehow ? Swodaems I know you want to capture her. I think she may be more valuable if we can dupe her. In that respect Nemo is our most valuable asset.
We also have a mercenary group. Could they be used to infiltrate a city ?
I don't have the answers but conventional thinking will get us nowhere.
Let's try to fool the elves into the misjudgement that we are thinking conventionally. We should produce siege resources and set them up to take either Logans Run or Scarlett Hills but that should serve as a distraction. We will eventually use them conventionally but our real target should be to fool our way into the other city. Once inside the walls we have the potential to create havoc among the defenders with Bill creating an "instant" army from their losses, Nemo casting veils to make their troops look like ours and vice versa, Fortunes boosting our rolls and of course our regular stun merchant, T Coil.
If a shock force can decimate archery and hold the gate, then we can use our kitties and fliers as cavalry to quickly relieve the insertion team.

Our distraction should see the other city more heavily defended.

First of all though we need information,
1./ The layout of defences on both cities (available from possible city records and we still have imps with crypsis)
2./ Tracking on Armolad ( if we plan to dupe her or use her as a stakling horse)
3./ Info on where their reinforcements are headed ( again scouting...or possible observation on the elves retreating from the Ixians)

So some scouting...and diplomacy...first of all. Then we plan.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:06 am

Exate wrote:
Nnelg wrote:The elves can't be everywhere at once.
True, but they can be expected to have a garrison at every city, and to have been reinforcing those garrisons with popped units ever since identifying us as a threat some turns ago.
Nnelg wrote:I assumed we'd be splitting off some of the main army under the New Batch's command
I would much prefer to combine all our assets from both groups, come up with a cohesive side strategy for this war, and then divide up units appropriately. There's no reason to keep ourselves divided into exactly two groups here, or to keep the units together which have been together so far on the basis of nothing other than momentum.
Nnelg wrote:we'll have troops to spare now with all these corpses to uncroak. Golems too, should Vinny get enough EXP for lvl 2 this battle. Regus may even be able to pop new legionaries with Schmuckers, although you shouldn't take my word on that one.
We don't have spare troops. We have large numbers of uncroaked, yes, but if this battle has demonstrated anything it's certainly shown that masses of units assaulting a city can be easily slaughtered en masse. And we certainly don't have schmuckers to burn- if we did, we'd be upgrading our cities to pop units more quickly.
Nnelg wrote:Moreover, there mere fact that you now have two independent command groups fully-functional is something that definitely needs to be kept in consideration.
In my opinion, we don't have two independent command groups- we are far more flexible than that, because any warlord or caster can break off to lead forces independently and we've got the numbers to split into at least three or four effective command groups should the situation call for it. The issue is, for all that command prowess we don't have the bulk forces- the masses of infantry and siege, or the clusters of high-powered elites- needed to take over cities. We could put together a raiding group or two and use them to harass the enemy, but successfully assaulting two cities at once with our currently available assets would be a long shot and we can't afford to take long shots. We must win every battle, preferably as crushingly as possible, because a hard-won victory could finish us as surely as a defeat could.

Werebiscuit wrote:So we must think creatively with what resources we have. What would entice the elves into the field ? Perhaps to support a retreat ? Is killing their last commander (and thus removing the possibility of a retreat from here) a good strategy? We already have forced Armolad from the field. Can we use that somehow ? Swodaems I know you want to capture her. I think she may be more valuable if we can dupe her. In that respect Nemo is our most valuable asset.
I don't think we can effectively dupe her, at least not in a way that will bring us significant advantage- we can't predict how the enemy will respond to this situation, but the most optimistic result of this that I'd anticipate would be our managing to ambush and destroy/capture an escort group dispatched to retrieve her, and I find that improbable and likely to involve multiple turns of many units that we need for other things shadowing her. We'll be able to pursue her as soon as it's our turn, slap her and her mount with hippiemancy for the capture, and resolve the issue quickly and easily. That's much simpler, and the rewards, while less substantial than a genius deception ploy of some kind, are much surer.
Werebiscuit wrote:We also have a mercenary group. Could they be used to infiltrate a city ?
Hmm. That might be more practical, but it would be dependent upon their not being identified as allied with us- and the mercenaries maintaining loyalty to us, and successfully deceiving the enemy long enough to get into a critical position. Still, they're a low enough value asset that I'd be willing to gamble them away on an attempt.
Werebiscuit wrote:Let's try to fool the elves into the misjudgement that we are thinking conventionally. We should produce siege resources and set them up to take either Logans Run or Scarlett Hills but that should serve as a distraction. We will eventually use them conventionally but our real target should be to fool our way into the other city. Once inside the walls we have the potential to create havoc among the defenders with Bill creating an "instant" army from their losses, Nemo casting veils to make their troops look like ours and vice versa, Fortunes boosting our rolls and of course our regular stun merchant, T Coil.
If a shock force can decimate archery and hold the gate, then we can use our kitties and fliers as cavalry to quickly relieve the insertion team.

Our distraction should see the other city more heavily defended.
I am wary of gambling four of our casters on an infiltration scheme. Admittedly we have casters to burn, but they're still valuable and that's a lot of risk. I'm not sure how it could even work, considering that in order to get into a city you have to cross a hex border, and crossing hex borders can only be done when you have available move- that is, on your side's turn. Though it might not be impossible to have the Foolamancer bring a spelled commando stack into the city and have them somehow scale the walls undetected- surely grappling hooks are a thing and it's not like we have to approach a city from the direction the gate's in and all the guards are at. Depending upon how heavily garrisoned the city is and how effective the insertion is, Nemo, Bill, and some assault units might feasibly be able to take it. The big issue with that plan, of course, is that Foolamancy spells last all of one turn as currently written and can get blown by every random infantry unit so using them in any capacity other than for fleeting combat advantage is virtually impossible.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:07 am

WaterMonkey314 wrote:
Exate wrote:...I am wary of gambling four of our casters on an infiltration scheme. Admittedly we have casters to burn, but they're still valuable and that's a lot of risk. I'm not sure how it could even work, considering that in order to get into a city you have to cross a hex border, and crossing hex borders can only be done when you have available move- that is, on your side's turn. Though it might not be impossible to have the Foolamancer bring a spelled commando stack into the city and have them somehow scale the walls undetected- surely grappling hooks are a thing and it's not like we have to approach a city from the direction the gate's in and all the guards are at. Depending upon how heavily garrisoned the city is and how effective the insertion is, Nemo, Bill, and some assault units might feasibly be able to take it. The big issue with that plan, of course, is that Foolamancy spells last all of one turn as currently written and can get blown by every random infantry unit so using them in any capacity other than for fleeting combat advantage is virtually impossible.


On Foolamancy - only Commanders can break veils. If an Elven city is like Progrock and guarded only by infantry, the veils will hold. (Though how the units will react is much less predictable).
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:08 am

Exate wrote:
WaterMonkey314 wrote:On Foolamancy - only Commanders can break veils. If an Elven city is like Progrock and guarded only by infantry, the veils will hold. (Though how the units will react is much less predictable).
Ah, right you are. My mistake. And I read the duration bit wrong, so that's not an issue either and all my objections are melting away. I should get more sleep or something.

So long as they've got the juice to get up to the target city without being spotted by scouts and thus anticipated, and the juice to cloak enough troops for it... this could actually work, on a fairly lightly held city. Avoid fighting anyone stationed on the walls, croak the leadership before they realize what's going on and can organize a defense, and seize the garrison before needing to fight everyone.

Heck, it could even work in combination with a more conventional assault; when the enemy gathers everyone on the walls to fight off the assault, our commando group sneaks into the city and takes the garrison.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:09 am

ETheBoyce wrote:Alternately, get me to level 8 so I can melt walls of enemy archers with a double 4Chan
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:11 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Skimming over the strattalk, I notice a lack of Ixian diplomacy attempts. Where by Diplomacy, I also mean trade. If we don't have Siege but do have money and want to acquire wall-breaking caps quick ... And Ix may be inclined to offer discounts, maybe.

As for deception ploys- uhm, what for? Right now, as far as I can tell, the plan is to stay totally put. At least until we can credibly punch a city and take it. Yeah, IF we had a conspicuous group of catapults I can see why tricking the Elves to think that we're going to A, when instead we're targeting B, would be valuable. For now, we've got nothing. That ain't deception, that's bluff.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:25 am

Werebiscuit wrote:
BLANDCorporatio wrote:Skimming over the strattalk, I notice a lack of Ixian diplomacy attempts. Where by Diplomacy, I also mean trade. If we don't have Siege but do have money and want to acquire wall-breaking caps quick ... And Ix may be inclined to offer discounts, maybe.


Bland given that the Ixians are sending a deputation to us and they have promised only covert assistance
MarbitChow wrote:Results of Tod's & Creperum's Info Gathering and Tactical Diplomacy
Tod had his bracer the entire time, but kept it hidden in his Purse except when he was securely away from prying eyes.

Turn 6: Creperum contacts the Ixian ruler, a female Queen named Maude Dibs. Creperum introduces himself, stating that they appear to have a mutual enemy in the Breatheairians, and hints that some mutually-beneficial arrangements might be made in the near future. He informs Tod that Maude expresses interest but appears very cautious, as she has never heard of the Tenebrisians before now. Maude suggests that she be allowed to send a few units into the region to substantiate the claims, and Creperum replied that he will consider the offer and respond in a few turns. Buffy informs you that Charlie can provide a detailed dossier on Ix for the low, low price of 25,000 shmuckers, non-negotiable. Partial information will not be released, Buffy informs Tod, because she's sure that Tod is such a capable and intelligent Warlord that, given limited information, he'll surely be able to fill in most of the blanks on his own, gaining the full value of the dossier for a fraction of the cost. She smiles and bats her eyelashes.
Tod and company mount up and head back to Dis. Shortly after arriving, Tod receives a Thinkagram from King Creperum
Image

I suggest that we wait for their envoy.. and hear what they have to say before setting out on any diplomatic mission of our own.
Nevertheless your idea is not one to be neglected.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby tigerusthegreat » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:33 am

I'm a fan of trying to go for Scarlet Hills first, because of a couple reasons.

1. It will keep our number of enemy adjacent cities to 3
2. It has a mine
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:41 am

tigerusthegreat wrote:I'm a fan of trying to go for Scarlet Hills first, because of a couple reasons.

1. It will keep our number of enemy adjacent cities to 3
2. It has a mine



Noted: The counter argument is that taking Logans Run forms a buffer zone keeping Tenebris from being attacked directly.

Suffice to say that there is also an argument for taking Rainbow springs made by Exate in that is is probably the most direct route for the elven reinforecements coming from the Ixian front...or the elven capital. Also given that they can supply it from 6 cities ...it is their most likely mustering point.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby tigerusthegreat » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:05 am

Werebiscuit wrote: Noted: The counter argument is that taking Logans Run forms a buffer zone keeping Tenebris from being attacked directly.

Suffice to say that there is also an argument for taking Rainbow springs made by Exate in that is is probably the most direct route for the elven reinforecements coming from the Ixian front...or the elven capital. Also given that they can supply it from 6 cities ...it is their most likely mustering point.


TBH, Logan's run is probably a better idea, still 3 cities to fight against, and secures the home front. I think Rainbow Springs is not going to be a fun fight, though.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby 0beron » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:49 am

Also I noticed a mention of Vinny 'maybe' hitting level 2. To clarify, I will DEFINITELY hit level 2, and very likely hit 3 as well. So me doing Golems is definitely a thing we can count on soon.

As for strategy, I agree about splitting into 2 groups....and maybe even suggest 3. The reason it might be 3 is because of the key exploit around Constructs and Uncroaked. They don't gain XP, and XP is divided between surviving members of the party. And because producing units and making money are currently our 2 weak points, I am of the opinion that leveling Bill and Vinny are a top priority. So if the main group carries on attacking the elves as planned, that keeps them and the elves busy. Meanwhile, Vinny with a minimal guard of live units explores the wilderness looking for random encounters, while Bill takes a similarly small escort and harasses elven patrols or supply lines. End result? Our 2 unit-producers level faster than normal, while Dis City remains defended thanks to me being within easy recall distance and the elves get weakened by Bill.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby Exate » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:30 pm

If we can get a mobile enough team together- we've currently got seven Naughty Kitties, which is enough for some flexibility- it might be practical to form up a raiding unit that we can send to intercept and destroy anticipated enemy reinforcements before they have a chance to properly gather. As noted, Rainbow Springs is their obvious mustering point; if we form a cavalry unit and attach some scouts to it, they could probably intercept units en route from both Beck Glen and Kardashia, or Longoria if we're feeling bold. Unfortunately, losing the Naughty Kitties and any units competent enough to form a raiding party would be a serious blow to the strength of our forces that we can ill afford and it's likely that the elves have enough scouts to pick up on our activities and keep us tracked.

As far as trade goes- if we can get ourselves a couple dozen Mining Picks on short notice that could really speed up our timetable here. We have the infantry (or uncroaked) to pull off a zerg rush, I think. I don't see rules for popping or purchasing those, though. Getting heavier equipment would be nice, but I'm not sure how we could import it effectively.

0beron wrote:power-leveling
If we do any kind of powerleveling, I would consider it a very high priority to grow some warlords into solid city managers as quickly as possible. We could desperately use a Leadership/Regent/Paragon/Inspiration build, and there are multiple PCs in the New Batch which could grow that way- all Warriors, more's the pity since we could really benefit from being able to pop elite garrison archers, but better that than nothing and we can pop an archer to send down this path. The Comptroller and Logistician abilities would be priceless as well given our limited funds and production capacity.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Strategy & Discussions

Postby 0beron » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:34 pm

Exate wrote:If we do any kind of powerleveling, I would consider it a very high priority to grow some warlords into solid city managers as quickly as possible.

We could easily (and even SHOULD) bring a warlord with each power-leveling caster, since the caster will need an escort of living protectors, and the caster doesn't offer any leadership bonus to those living units. Good idea.
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