Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Exate » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:33 am

Kaed wrote:I always assumed the family relations thing was done by custom rather than 'bloodline'. Like, Trem and Slately aren't actually related, they just treat each other like parent and son because Erfworlders have no other conceptualization of family.
You think? Overlord Firebaugh is described as having a "family resemblance" to Wanda and Tommy, which implies to me at least that there's something more to it. They also seem to very rapidly fall into family-type relationships, although that could just be expectations being played to- and given that units pop with knowledge of at least some of their side's "customs" (reference Jillian's comments on tea ceremony) there's something to be said about the line between customs and stats being somewhat blurred in cases like this. If you pop knowing that by custom someone is your brother or father, and instinctively assume good relations because that's how you naturally act based upon your popped know-how, what makes that different from popping with them actually being family and having a loyalty bonus? Is it different at all?

0beron wrote:So, the important rule update of this week is that fire (and perhaps other means then?) can destroy a corpse and prevent it's use with Croakamancy.
That harkens back to Bogroll's corpse being unusable due to being mutilated/burned, I'd say. I don't see any new mechanics information on the most recent page.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:57 am

Well, if there was any debate about beasts being able to level, it's confirmed now that they can.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:20 pm

By the way, just in my looking around as I'm finally doing my naval unit designs which I never got round to doing, I have a couple of questions. First, I'm seeing Exate has one of his ships be a knight class instead and I was wondering if that was something any of us could do? Being a side based off Zelda, having Zoras would make sense in so many ways for me. Do the Titans have any specific ruling on which ship designs can be units instead?

Second question, looking at Colonel's ships, I see his sloop design has stats taken OUT of the base stats and put elsewhere. Is this allowed? I mean in general? I didn't think something like that was made clear in the rules so I wanna check to see if it's something I can do too or not.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Exate » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:34 pm

Lord of Monies wrote:By the way, just in my looking around as I'm finally doing my naval unit designs which I never got round to doing, I have a couple of questions. First, I'm seeing Exate has one of his ships be a knight class instead and I was wondering if that was something any of us could do? Being a side based off Zelda, having Zoras would make sense in so many ways for me. Do the Titans have any specific ruling on which ship designs can be units instead?

Second question, looking at Colonel's ships, I see his sloop design has stats taken OUT of the base stats and put elsewhere. Is this allowed? I mean in general? I didn't think something like that was made clear in the rules so I wanna check to see if it's something I can do too or not.
I think the answer here is the same for both questions- that being, the point of this game is to have fun and be flavorful, and the rules exist in support of that. My impression is that in both of the cases you listed, the rules stand as written but have been granted specific exceptions at player request. If you think the rules need to be bent or modified in order to make your side more entertaining and fit together better, then propose the necessary changes and work out the details so that they are agreeable to both yourself and the GM.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:16 pm

Semi-related, but I am doing a re-read of the comic (mainly to figure out more precise positions of various cities in the comic) but I'm taking advantage of the chance to pick up on little rules we may have missed. Here are my findings so far:
  • Fliers in Heavy Forest, Water, and Mountain hexes can only be attacked by other fliers. (exception, ranged units that are terrain capable in the relevant type)
  • You can't cast on the enemy turn (I assume firing tower defenses are an exception)

(I've gotten up to Wanda & company first entering the Jetstone airspace, haven't re-read Book 0 yet either.)
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:24 am

I think it's also been alluded to that ranged units have limited ammo. Possibly to prevent abuse with the fact they can shoot across hex boundaries on their turn, and ranged fliers can't be touched by the enemy in some cases.
The most recent example of ammo would be in Jillian's Yellow Dwagon in the text updates.
An earlier one would be the text update wherein Red and Archer Guy have just been dropped into Spacerock's courtyard, and have to send a hobgobwin to collect arrows.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:44 am

0beron wrote:
  • You can't cast on the enemy turn (I assume firing tower defenses are an exception)


*sigh*

It seems like every month or so someone brings that 'rule' up and fails to also take note of the many, many specific exceptions mentioned in the comic.

Basically it boils down to this, I'm pretty sure:

-Casters cannot cast spells that would negatively affect an enemy off turn. Exception: The hex or city the caster is in currently occupied by enemy units.

This means that anything not directly harmless in nature, such as thinkagrams, message hats, moneymancy, healing, dollamancy. One might think croakamancy is indirectly harmful and thus okay, but keep in mind that since it can also target fallen enemy units, you cannot actually do it off turn in the rare situation your croakamancer finds himself with corpses off turn.

One could make a case for the exception covering mid-battle zombie making though...
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:37 am

Koliup wrote:I think it's also been alluded to that ranged units have limited ammo. Possibly to prevent abuse with the fact they can shoot across hex boundaries on their turn, and ranged fliers can't be touched by the enemy in some cases.
.....no ranged unit whatsoever can ever fire across a hex boundary. Not sure where you got that idea, unless ur confusing the Airspace/Ground boundary as a "hex border".

As for the casting on enemy turns, I started thinking more after I wrote that and realized the tons of counter examples. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't all those examples been within a city in the Garrison? So perhaps it follows similar rules to movement within cities? The city owner can cast freely within it even off-turn, and any unit in the Garrison space can also cast freely regardless of turn?
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:39 pm

0beron wrote:
Koliup wrote:I think it's also been alluded to that ranged units have limited ammo. Possibly to prevent abuse with the fact they can shoot across hex boundaries on their turn, and ranged fliers can't be touched by the enemy in some cases.
.....no ranged unit whatsoever can ever fire across a hex boundary. Not sure where you got that idea, unless ur confusing the Airspace/Ground boundary as a "hex border".


http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_33a
Parson mentions that archery units and city siege engines can fire into adjacent hexes, but only on their turn. That's why the Jetstone archers couldn't hit GK's forces after they nabbed Ossomer. The two unknown variables are: does this apply only to city'd units? And: Is it even effective?
In my opinion on the two: No/maybe, and no.
It was mentioned that units can 'kinda sorta' see into adjacent hexes. Like seeing a far-off dude. But I'm willing to bet it's massed fire, and ineffective. Possibly taking a notable attack hit, and not being able to target specific units. Also a waste of the turn's ammo.
Will update this later. At school and busy.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:19 pm

I think this is largely because of the ambiguity about how many hexes a city actually counts as, and where the hex boundary really is. Some places suggest that cities really cover the space of many hexes, but only count as 1, whereas others seem to suggest it's a single hex.
I think Kaed has handily resolved this with his ruling that a City is a single hex, and there is space outside the walls that still counts as being in the same hex. So units on the wall can fire arrows at attackers, because they're in the hex. In the comic, I think that same act would be considered firing across a hex border. But given the ambiguity of the comic on this topic, I much prefer Kaed's method of dealing with it. Thus, we also don't need to allow Archers to fire across hexes.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Safaquel » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:52 pm

Wait. Why did arrows hit Wanda's stack after nabbing Ossomer? They were even quadrupled by a Dittomancer. D'you think they were in the same hex at that moment?
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:53 pm

Correct, in the next page you see her stack retreating across the bridge, with tons of arrows stuck in midair at the hex boundary (which is in the middle of the bridge)
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Safaquel » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:05 pm

Okay, does anyone wanna summon the Conditionally Perfect Warlord yet?
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:36 pm

Ha, I doubt there's half a million shmuckers between all the players combined.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:42 pm

Lord of Monies wrote:Ha, I doubt there's half a million shmuckers between all the players combined.

Well, not right now, no....gimmie a lil bit though :p
HOWEVER...having half a million in the treasury doesn't mean I'd have half a million to just throw around haha :p
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:04 pm

And that's if you need a perfect warlord anyhow. Better to spend it all on an army and slowly become an awesome lateral-thinking royal yourself.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Exate » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:15 pm

Safaquel wrote:Okay, does anyone wanna summon the Conditionally Perfect Warlord yet?
I'd settle for summoning Metheglin, personally.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Safaquel » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:39 pm

Lord of Monies wrote:And that's if you need a perfect warlord anyhow. Better to spend it all on an army and slowly become an awesome lateral-thinking royal yourself.


You'll note the conditional word on the Conditionally Perfect Warlord.
Actually, it could be an interesting spell - a warlord who is destined to win just this one battle.
Alternatively, carnymancy/thinkamancy/look- or turnamancy link could really screw up somebody's capityal by, say, making the city only pop warlords who are destined to win one battle and lose all others unconditionally. Or something. Anyway rigging other cities' production rules should be really interesting.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:08 am

It seems we have a caveat on the 'can't hit fliers from mountains/forest/etc.' rule.
In the latest update, Jillian mentions that a flier can be spotted from nearby hexes if they fly high, but can likewise spot adjacent hexes.
Buuut. If a flier flies low, they are difficult to spot, but can be hit by opposing forces. That seems to be the gist of it.
You actually see this in the Circle of Dragons trap Parson laid out for Ansom. Now, admittedly elves had the proper terrain type. But still.
Also, apparently casters can be rulers and chief warlords. Though, I don't see why you'd do that. They don't give a bonus.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:52 am

Well we actually just got confirmation of something I suspected earlier: Reach. She specifically says a unit with Reach could grab them. So it looks like we have another Special to add to our list. Which would mean the new rule is that only Terrain-Capable units with Reach or Ranged may target fliers in Heavy Forest, Mountain, or Water hexes.

As for the caster thing, Olive isn't chief warlord, she's chief CASTER, that's a position we have seen before. It's just a position of authority, it doesn't provide bonuses. It just means they get to Order the other casters.
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