Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby El_Chupacabra » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:20 pm

Lamech wrote:
Knight13 wrote:
Werebiscuit wrote:Also do we actually know Delphine was killed at the fall of Goodminton ? It would make sense for Haffaton to capture ALL the Casters (Delphine and Clay as well as Wanda). Perhaps Delphine is still working to bring Wanda to her fate by trying to toget Jillian back to Wanda even if Jillian chooses "the hard way".

Wanda felt Delphine croak while she was briefly Overlord of Goodminton. So no, Delphine is definitely dead.

Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 026 wrote:She was Overlord of Goodminton! And...and there were almost no units to count. Fritz was gone. Clay was gone. Delphie was there in the tower, wounded.

In Wanda's head, Delphie's light went out as well. Gone.
Her light went out in Wanda's head". Wanda can no longer sense her. Overlords cannot sense units not on their side. Any unit that gets captured, or any unit that gets turned is no longer on the same side. Wanda would be unable to sense Delphie if she croaks, turns or gets captured. Her fate is still up in the air. And I for one, if I attacked a city with overwhelming force would order the casters captured at all costs.


Hm... have we seen any mechanic or statement that would confirm or deny whether a Overlord can sense as to how "Her light went out"? While they would be unable to presently sense status under capture or turning, I'd think the Overlord would have to somehow know the difference between types of unit loss.

I can't believe Overlords would have to assume "KIA until shown otherwise" or "MIA until shown otherwise".
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby 0beron » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:27 pm

El_Chupacabra wrote:Hm... have we seen any mechanic or statement that would confirm or deny whether a Overlord... [has] to assume "KIA until shown otherwise" or "MIA until shown otherwise".

Well I believe it was suggested or even directly stated that while Jillian was captive, Banhammer wouldn't know if she was still alive.
Also the example of Ossomer turning back might tell us something. Wanda knew remotely that he had turned...the only question is how. Is it something her magical link told her (in other words, it's a unique ability of the 'Plier), or is that in fact something they'd know always? Or was it something she could easily deduce under the circumstances? I'll go back and read that portion of the story to figure this out if I can.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby joosy » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:33 pm

Delphie is croaked.
She is passed on! This Predictamancer is no more! She has ceased to be! She's expired and gone to meet her maker! She's a stiff! Bereft of life, she rests in peace! Her metabolic processes are now history! She's off the twig! She's kicked the bucket, she's shuffled off her mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! She's f*ckin' snuffed it!..... THIS IS AN EX-PREDICTAMANCER!!
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby bladestorm » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:36 pm

El_Chupacabra wrote:Smug little.... grrrr. Kinda reminds me of Tom in "Tom and Jerry". Wins too damn easily and you wish the booping cat would eat her face off just once....

Both were males. Tom was the cat and Jerry was the mouse.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby El_Chupacabra » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:46 pm

bladestorm wrote:
El_Chupacabra wrote:Smug little.... grrrr. Kinda reminds me of Tom in "Tom and Jerry". Wins too damn easily and you wish the booping cat would eat her face off just once....

Both were males. Tom was the cat and Jerry was the mouse.



Yeah, that's the problem I faced when trying to wrap a metaphor that involves males around a female. Just could not think of a smug-ass female cartoon character I hated, so... crowbar that metaphor in however you need.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby bladestorm » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:54 pm

Zeku wrote:Olive is level 12 because she has directly been involved in the capture many of the cities that compose Haffaton.

This doesn't mean she's clever, or has a wide variety of spells. We don't actually know what a high level caster gains.

Giving high level casters a lot of new spell types is something of a creative problem, because it means you've got to think of interesting and powerful spells for every type of spellcaster, and then include all the ways that they might be combined with a thinkamancer link, and all the ways they might be used in an unintended fashion.

It makes more sense to me, to assume that casters just retain one to three basic functions at all levels, their main "juice use," as well as a group of passive abilities that would be based on their personality just as much as the ruleset. After all, this is a real world, not a game, and not a roleplaying session. Every action of an individual, spellcasting included, doesn't have to fall into neat little boxes with strict limitations. Parson is an example of this. He is still low level, and this doesn't negatively affect him at all. It only affects certain types of combat interactions.

So what should a high level caster gain?
In my opinion: the customary. A substantial increase in maximum juice, a modest increase in health and combat ability. I don't think anything like 'immunity to lower level spells' or 'increased numerical effect' or 'increased activation range' or 'increased effect range' is applicable at all. These are sweeping concepts that usually become arbitrarily stronger or weaker than intended. All caster uniqueness should be based on the individual caster.


Getting back to the update, I'm really curious what, if any, connection Janis and Olive have. Janis says she wants to beat war itself. Olive hasn't revealed any motives, other than a kind of insane ambivalence towards the free will of others.

I'd also wager that the leadership bonus they have for leading certain units (uncroaked from croakamancers, dolls for dollamancers, golems for dirtamancers, plantlife for florists, etc) also increases.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby joosy » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:58 pm

bladestorm wrote:I'd also wager that the leadership bonus they have for leading certain units (uncroaked from croakamancers, dolls for dollamancers, golems for dirtamancers, plantlife for florists, etc) also increases.


From the update that spelled out the bonus in the stack led by Wanda and Ansom, I believe that the bonus does increase per level.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby mortissimus » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:04 pm

0beron wrote:Based on the insight we've seen from various casters, I assume it's safe to surmise the following:
As casters increase in LEVEL they get more Juice
As they increase in "RANK" (Adept, Novice, ect) they gain access to more complex spells (and could do more things in a tri-link perhaps)


And as casters (or warlords for that matter) increase in turns they get more real world experience, in general making them smarter about what to use where. Of course, then there is those that Sylvia that proves the old maxim "Thyat which does not kill you might just mess you up for life".
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby youngstormlord » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:04 pm

joosy wrote:
bladestorm wrote:I'd also wager that the leadership bonus they have for leading certain units (uncroaked from croakamancers, dolls for dollamancers, golems for dirtamancers, plantlife for florists, etc) also increases.


From the update that spelled out the bonus in the stack led by Wanda and Ansom, I believe that the bonus does increase per level.


Which is what I was telling in one of my previous posts:

Or, and here's a novel thinking, Haffaton could just hire a few of Charlie's Archons with foolamancy, shockamancy and whole shtick (say 4 for example), who attack Goodmington. While the casters expend tower defenses hitting very few things (because fighting four foolamancy archons is much different than fighting one), a single florist/hippiemancer starts hugging trees unnoticed in the gate hex. Once she has enough to stack with, say 12 for example, she leads an attack on the gate and kills everything inside with very powerful siege units she just made. And the thing is, the expense of hiring archons is all worth it in the end because of savings you get when having uncroaked units.


Imagine siege units that it takes high level warlord with yellow dwagon's full belly just to take out two, unled ones, with master level florist stacked with them. That's... deeply unsettling. Imagine a big stack of them, unseen, attacking your city, while a stack of archons is making merry hell in your airspace.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby Knight13 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:37 pm

Lamech wrote:
Knight13 wrote:
Werebiscuit wrote:Also do we actually know Delphine was killed at the fall of Goodminton ? It would make sense for Haffaton to capture ALL the Casters (Delphine and Clay as well as Wanda). Perhaps Delphine is still working to bring Wanda to her fate by trying to toget Jillian back to Wanda even if Jillian chooses "the hard way".

Wanda felt Delphine croak while she was briefly Overlord of Goodminton. So no, Delphine is definitely dead.

Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 026 wrote:She was Overlord of Goodminton! And...and there were almost no units to count. Fritz was gone. Clay was gone. Delphie was there in the tower, wounded.

In Wanda's head, Delphie's light went out as well. Gone.
Her light went out in Wanda's head". Wanda can no longer sense her. Overlords cannot sense units not on their side. Any unit that gets captured, or any unit that gets turned is no longer on the same side. Wanda would be unable to sense Delphie if she croaks, turns or gets captured. Her fate is still up in the air. And I for one, if I attacked a city with overwhelming force would order the casters captured at all costs.


El_Chupacabra wrote:Hm... have we seen any mechanic or statement that would confirm or deny whether a Overlord can sense as to how "Her light went out"? While they would be unable to presently sense status under capture or turning, I'd think the Overlord would have to somehow know the difference between types of unit loss.

I can't believe Overlords would have to assume "KIA until shown otherwise" or "MIA until shown otherwise".


Rulers can tell the difference between their units being croaked or captured. Back on page 41, Jillian was certain that Banhammer would know that her force had been killed, but that she herself had been captured.

Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 041 wrote:She thought of home. They would know she had been captured. They would know that all of Faq’s best warriors had fallen, and that the mission had failed.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby BCCroaker » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:15 pm

They only way for Olive to be alive in Main Comic Time is for Wanda to have her stashed in a secret cave with her innards beeing torn out daily by rats. There is no chance a Lady Firebaugh with any independence of action will be relaxed about Tommy's killer and principal agent of her side and fathers demise. Not to mention the suffering Wanda's Signamancy shows she is perpetually undergoing as a turned servant of Haffaton.
Cubbins wrote:Hmm, I wonder if Olive's still alive in the 'present.'
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby bladestorm » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:20 pm

But how would he know? Would it be a light going out? Some mental number that decreases by however many digits (Doubtful, since Stanley asks how many units were lost when Parson initiated the attack against the RC and took out 40% of their seige while suffering 0 losses)? Or could it just be from the sudden drop in Side-wide CWL bonus? Some mental update like a thinkagram pop-up that read "Your chief warlord has just been captured."? Daily/turnly update of how many engagements your Side has participated in and a win/loss ratio ("Since last Turn, you have won 0/1 engagements. Click here to start new turn.")? Maybe a status update next to Heir: Jillian (red light), but not going blank? Treasury upkeep suddenly drops by the same amount as what Jillian plus her entire crew cost?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby Reclaimer » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:26 pm

Dame Branch is one of the most sadistic, twisted characters in the series, hands down. She's a good example of how Hippiemancers can kick ass but doesn't conform to their archetype in any way beyond the superficial, like any true 'Sploiter. I think part of her role is to kind of hint that Janis, as a Grand Abbie of Hippiemancy, is not just some husky stoner but actually an extremely powerful ally for Parson, capable of unleashing a whole world of hurt even if it's only as a last resort.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby Lamech » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:38 pm

Reclaimer wrote:Dame Branch is one of the most sadistic, twisted characters in the series, hands down. She's a good example of how Hippiemancers can kick ass but doesn't conform to their archetype in any way beyond the superficial, like any true 'Sploiter. I think part of her role is to kind of hint that Janis, as the Grand Abbie of Hippiemancy, is not just some husky stoner but actually an extremely powerful ally for Parson, capable of unleashing a whole world of hurt even if it's only as a last resort.
Oh yeah. She's nasty. And powerful. I suspect she must have used signamancy to lure Jillian to the hex. And I'm almost positive that she is using date-a-mancy to could people's minds. And she seems to have rhyme-o-mancy. Actually, I'm betting Janice doesn't measure up to Branch. Of course, if Janice were to bring all the hippiemancers along to Parson's side... would that be nice?

Hey this made me notice something: Caster politics. You have the thinkamancer area, and the hippiemancer area. The hippiemancers are nice and friendly with each other. All one big family. The thinkamancers OTOH distance themselves from the lookamancers.

Final note, I bet I know how Branch caught Jillian: Relay. She can make her own units.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby Reclaimer » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:46 pm

Branch isn't a Grand Abbie, though; that's not a unique title, so she either ran into a barrier of skill or attitude. It would make sense that the other Hippiemancers keep her lower in the hierarchy for her rampant warmongering, but I still suspect Janis would be able to take her. That's just theorymancy though, since there's a strong case to be made for Branch being stone dead as of the time of the comic.

Edit: Dame Branch uses Flower Power to end battles within her hex; Janis Atlantis is using Flower Power to end all wars everywhere forever.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby mortissimus » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:15 pm

Interesting to see all the complains of Jillians stupidity. I just figured Olive guided Jillians decisions with neat little spells.

Jillian held her sword at the ready, but somehow did not brandish it for combat.


Something was holding her back.


For some reason, Jillian did catch it.


Three times hinted it was, mind control it is.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby Lamech » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:40 pm

Reclaimer wrote:Branch isn't a Grand Abbie, though; that's not a unique title, so she either ran into a barrier of skill or attitude. It would make sense that the other Hippiemancers keep her lower in the hierarchy for her rampant warmongering, but I still suspect Janis would be able to take her. That's just theorymancy though, since there's a strong case to be made for Branch being stone dead as of the time of the comic.

Edit: Dame Branch uses Flower Power to end battles within her hex; Janis Atlantis is using Flower Power to end all wars everywhere forever.

Eh, her power isn't common knowledge. Wanda didn't know about her rhyme-o-mancy or chillaxe before they got used. Jillian didn't know of the absurd level before she saw it. Branch probably doesn't brag. If you're a level 12 Grand Abbie, you want the enemy to be prepared for a level 12 florist and not a level 12 Grand Abbie.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby Tathar » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:38 pm

Thoke wrote:Oh, how much use GK would get from a florist like that. Win any open field fight with enough crap dwagons without (potentially) losing any units.
Also, let's imagine a city fight:

1. florist casts a no-engaging spell
2. Yellow dwagons bomb the crap out of them (literally), croaking enemy units
3. Wanda decrypts all the fallen enemy troops inside the city
4. Sizemore animates all the crap inside the city into golems (creating golems is a supportive spell)
5. Wait a turn
6. ...
7. Profit!

And all of them would be in on the hippiemancer-predictamancer conspiracy, so this could in fact happen should Janis decide to join GK.
Beeskee wrote:I was reluctant to assume Charlie was the Wizard, since it seems like if a butterfly farts in an unmapped hex, we're all ready to assume it's somehow part of Charlie's grand schemes to control the wind or whatever.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby Tathar » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:48 pm

Arky wrote:Additional: I also had the instant reaction of WHAT ABOUT WANDA'S FLOWER? I suspect Olive really is still alive. I actually wonder if it's possible for her to be Charlie (Charlie almost certainly doesn't have to be in that tower, especially if he wants everyone to believe he is). Whether she is or isn't Charlie, though, a super-powerful character with an interest in clever rule-bending tactics isn't going to get randomly killed off. It would be a waste.


Ever notice how just about every caster in the story has been suspected of being Charlie at one point or another? How do we know that Charlie is even a caster?
Beeskee wrote:I was reluctant to assume Charlie was the Wizard, since it seems like if a butterfly farts in an unmapped hex, we're all ready to assume it's somehow part of Charlie's grand schemes to control the wind or whatever.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 049

Postby Tathar » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:10 pm

El_Chupacabra wrote:Hm... have we seen any mechanic or statement that would confirm or deny whether a Overlord can sense as to how "Her light went out"? While they would be unable to presently sense status under capture or turning, I'd think the Overlord would have to somehow know the difference between types of unit loss.

I can't believe Overlords would have to assume "KIA until shown otherwise" or "MIA until shown otherwise".

Not sure if it's the same sort of thing or not, but Wanda was able to tell Ossomer turning apart from a Decrypted being dusted.
Beeskee wrote:I was reluctant to assume Charlie was the Wizard, since it seems like if a butterfly farts in an unmapped hex, we're all ready to assume it's somehow part of Charlie's grand schemes to control the wind or whatever.
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