New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby ETheBoyce » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:10 pm

I'm thinking more along the lines of, will a spell like say, 4Chan hit units I can't see if they are in the AOE
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Nnelg » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:11 pm

So, Just for a few ideas of components...

  • Make a unit appear to be a different unit, both visually and stats-wise { visible hits remaining = ( old hits remaining / old hits max ) * new hits max }
  • Adjust a unit's visible hits remaining and visible positive status effects (either to hide them or fake them)
  • Adjust the signamancy and/or provide suitible distraction to make a foolamancy spell "believable" when cast on the battlefield in LOS of an enemy unit.
  • Allow disguise to last through attacks (the juice cost of this needs to be a multiplier, not an addition).
  • Allow multiple targeting (I think a flat rate addition would be better than an additional cost/target here).
  • Create Illusionary unit.
  • Allow illusions to persist despite successful ranged and AOE attacks.
  • Make Illusion distract enemy for a number of phases: Adjacent enemy units will attack that unit instead of other units.
  • Make Illusion startle enemy for a number of phases: non-leadership units with orders to move into this area will instead delay move.

Hm... I think we can separate these out into "effects" and "modifiers" first.


PS:
With this ingeniously flexible new system, I was imagining that foolamancy would normally dispel as soon as the unit in question takes damage (or would take damage, for illusionary units) unless an affect was added to the spell.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Nnelg » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:12 pm

ETheBoyce wrote:I'm thinking more along the lines of, will a spell like say, 4Chan hit units I can't see if they are in the AOE

Oh, that one's easy enough. Just imagine it as a game of Battleship.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:17 pm

ETheBoyce wrote:I'm thinking more along the lines of, will a spell like say, 4Chan hit units I can't see if they are in the AOE

Agree with what Nnelg said, a huge rain of arrows fired in an AOE pattern hit Wanda while she was invisible, because the archers suspected she was in there somewhere. I might add a penalty to the attack roll, but yeah it should hit them.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby ETheBoyce » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:18 pm

I prefer to have such things in writing, preferably in stone
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:22 pm

Well right now we're just discussing the general ideas, this won't go into effect yet so no need to worry Ethe, im sure it will be set in stone before these rules go in effect. Also, if I remember correctly, the Elves have neither a Fool nor Shockamancer, so I'm not sure how often that issue would come up.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby ETheBoyce » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:25 pm

They do have a Shockamancer named Gandalfa...or something close to that, she's another Elf Coil wishes to capture....
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:27 pm

Ah okay thankks. Well we will definitely codify that aspect of Foolamancy as well before it is implemented.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:56 pm

We'll tweak the selective AOE spells so that they target the square, rather than the unit within it. This will allow it to seamlessly integrate with Foolamancy (since you won't care what's veiled or invisible) as well as make sure it works with AOE-vulnerable units like the Brickabats.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby ETheBoyce » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:01 pm

Actually that brings up questions on rider/mount interaction and fliers in regards to these spells, which square is a Rider counted as being in on a mount, and if a flier is above a targeted square do they also get hit?
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

ETheBoyce wrote:Actually that brings up questions on rider/mount interaction and fliers in regards to these spells, which square is a Rider counted as being in on a mount, and if a flier is above a targeted square do they also get hit?

From the current Shockamancy rules: "Riders on mounted targets that are hit with a multi-square shockamancy spell take half the base damage, excluding plus-sized damage, that their mount takes, rounded down."
Shockamancy spells are currently single-elevation spells. You can target fliers, or ground forces, but not both with a single spell.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:35 pm

Ok, here's a rough draft. I realize that we're still missing that "hey, look over there" component that Jack demonstrated on Wanda in the prequel update, but I'm not sure how to codify that in game terms. Also, I don't think I'm going to allow "improved invisibility"-type spells in this game; we've seen no indication that they exist in Erfworld, and Jack would certainly have used them if he could.

Other than Target Hex, assume all effects and modifiers cost 0.5 AP; Foolamancers will start with either +1.0 or +1.5 bonus Foolamancy AP as their school's special.

We'll still need to work out Juice costs and Spot checks to pierce illusions; the old system won't work with this new one, I think.

A unit's size cannot be altered through illusion. 2x2 Units cannot appear as single-square units, nor can it appear as 4 single-square units. Unless otherwise noted, all Foolamancy on a target ends when the target attacks, casts a spell, or is damaged in combat.

Effects :
    Projection - Create semi-transparent glowing image of whatever the caster desires
    Eidelon [Requires Projection] (Alter Stats) - Change apparent unit Type [Warrior, Spearman, Archer, Flier, Caster], Level, Combat, Defense, Max Hits, Max Move, Side, Attack Modifiers, and Additional Abilities of any humanoid unit.
    Psychosomia [Requires Projection] (Alter Status) - Change apparent unit Status [Calmed, Stunned, Incapacitated, Immobilized, Dodging, Delayed-Move, Delayed-Action, Current Hits]
    Chimera [Requires Eidelon] (Alter Nature) - Add or Remove [Uncroaked, Construct, Beast, Inhuman]
    Facade [Requires Projection] (Alter Structure) - Add or Remove apparent Structure Points (all units normally have 0 structure points - adding structure points makes a unit appear as a structure).
    Phantasm [Requires Projection] - Create an illusionary unit (single-square, 2x2, or 3x3 in size) with 0 Combat / 0 Defense / 0 Hits / 0 Move that can be targeted by other effects
    Crypsis [Requires Projection] - Hide the target completely from view (grants a dodge bonus based on Caster's level, even if target is not dodging; cannot be targeted by RLOS spells).
    Displacement [Requires Projection] - Create a replica of the target in a different square (determined by the caster) that duplicates the original's movements and actions exactly. Attacking or Casting does not end the Displacement.

Modifiers :
    Multiplicity [Requires Projection] - Projections, Phantasms and Displacements can create 1 instance per Caster Level (can be purchased multiple times)
    Target Stack [Requires Projection] - Caster can apply the spell to all units in a single Stack or Horde
    Target Hex [Requires Facade, Target Stack, Level 4] - Caster can apply the spell to an entire Hex
    Persistence [Requires Projection] - Allows the illusion to last through being damaged
    Aggression [Requires Persistence] - Allows the illusion to continue after the unit attacks or casts
    Longevity [Requires Projection] - Allows the illusion to persist through multiple Turns
    Animation [Requires Psychosomia] - Allows the illusion to react to the environment (wounds appear, status effects are applied, etc.)
    Signamancy [Requires Projection] - Adds appropriate signamancy component to explain illusion (such as a spell being cast, a trap door opening to reveal units, etc.)

(Edit 1: Added Aggression)
Last edited by MarbitChow on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:41 pm

At first glance I like it, though some factors seem needlessly complicated. I'll take a more detailed look when I have the chance to actually draw it out like a skill tree and examine the advancement/connection between factors.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby ETheBoyce » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:00 pm

Err Marbit there is "Improved Invisibility": http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/?px=%2F2009-11-18.jpg http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/?px=%2F2009-11-23.jpg

As clearly demonstrated neither the Archons' Shockamancy nor the Pink Dwagon's bubble breath dispelled the Invisibility spell on them
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:55 pm

I stand corrected. The updated rules will allow for "improved invisibility"
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:17 pm

(Exate's notes in Kaed's thread prompted me to drop this additional idea:)

Additional Abilities
Skilled Caster [Requires Caster] (1 AP) - AP costs to purchase spells other than those in the caster's primary school are halved.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Exate » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:36 pm

MarbitChow wrote:(Exate's notes in Kaed's thread prompted me to drop this additional idea:)

Additional Abilities
Skilled Caster [Requires Caster] (1 AP) - AP costs to purchase spells other than those in the caster's primary school are halved.
There's no reason not to take something like this if you're planning on spending at least 2 AP outside your primary school already (that being the break-even point). Could be quite useful, particularly in those disciplines that don't necessarily demand the investment of all available AP; I'd expect it to result in significantly more diverse casters at very high levels.

The downside, though, is this:

Specialist
L1: 1 AP spells (native school)
L2: 1 AP spells
L3: 1 AP spells
L4: 1 AP spells
L5: 1 AP spells

Cross-Class
L1: 1 AP spells (native school)
L2: Skilled Caster
L3: 2 AP spells (cross-class school)
L4: 2 AP spells (cross-class school)
L5: 2 AP spells (cross-class school)

As you can see, the Skilled Caster who abandons their primary school has advanced in their second discipline quickly enough to outpace a standard caster build in that discipline by level 5. We really need to make sure that it's not actually easier to advance rapidly in your second school than your first.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:38 pm

There used to be a rule that you couldn't have more combined AP worth of spells in out-of-school spells than you had in-school spells. On quick glance, that doesn't appear to be in the current rule set. If this ability is one that casters would want, that restriction will be in effect.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Exate » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:49 pm

Hmm. Maybe something like this would work, for a multidisciplinary archetype? Bear in mind that this is a fairly huge AP investment and grants diversity but not much power considering it's only available at level 8. Slightly more than a 50% discount given the currently available seven schools, but it doesn't let you climb their ability trees much- particularly since you'll need to have spent at least 3 AP on your primary school's spells in order to take this anyway.

Generalist [Requires Caster, level 8] (3 AP) - Learn the introductory spell for all schools. Any out-of-school introductory spells bought previously may have their cost count toward this ability once its level prerequisite is met.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:09 pm

I think Generalist doesn't make sense that way. I would suggest it actually be a 0AP cost, but require that you have purchased the intro spells in 3 other schools. Or at least make it cost 1 AP and require you to have taken 2 other schools. Then it represents the fact that the caster has spent their career exploring other magics, and just had an epiphany that allows them to understand the rest.
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