Magical turnamancy would be much faster, but both Coil's and Triage's methods can eventually win them over thanks to Stockholm... I mean Erfholm Syndrome. Coil's method about twice as fast, but is likely to make them much more sullen, submissive and passive.0beron wrote:Again, I am aware that we cannot gain the Alt Elves as proper Natural Allies that allow us to pop more...but can they willingly Turn to us after Junetta, Triage, and Wanderus talk to them? Or do they require magical Turnamancy?
Yes, since you level at the end of the elves' turn, you can begin partial-crafting overnight and continue in the morning once your Juice is refilled. If you could convince other units to part with some Restore Juice potions, you might even finish one or two before the Tenebris turn even begins. Best of luck with that!0beron wrote:Also, see my question above about Partial Crafting for Golems.
MarbitChow wrote:Junetta, Wandereus and Triage intercept Coil as he's about to lead the Altruist Elves away.
"Careful, Tesla," Junetta warns. "These units are healers, and thus fall under our protection. Without a direct order from Tod, we shall not allow you to 'play' with them until they are turned and can choose for themselves, and we shall not allow your methods to be used to attempt such turning. We don't want them broken."
Wandereus crosses his arms and glares and Coil. Triage offers an arm to each Altruist, and together the group makes its way towards one of the many parlors within the city, where they can speak in relative comfort, out of the view of the dozens of elven corpses.
Swodaems wrote:My plan to bring them both in:
We're going to have to spend a night (and an elven turn) in the hex.
Tomorrow morning, after the archons depart, we use the imps to find Armolad and Amandaria.
We'll use the Balrug to carry in a small capture group. (Armolad is probably 16 hexes away if she is limited to Amandaria's remaining move. Balrug move=40-16=24) The capture group consists of T. Coil, Junetta, Tod, and a brickbat swarm.
We use T. Coil to stun the pair, then we have Junetta do a pair of space outs. (We'll need to have Junetta do back to back space-outs using delayed actions to pull this off. Since she can't have delayed actions entering the hex, we enter the hex on phase 5 of round one and do nothing but delay until phase 5 of round 2. Armolad can use her actions to get off 4 shots at us, but the brickbat swarm takes all of them. T. Coil stuns Armolad and Amandaria at phase 5 of round 2, and then Junetta does space-outs at phases 4 and 3.) This causes the pair to auto-surrender.
We will need to be on the lookout for any other forces Armolad may have in the hex. We'll abandon the mission if things get hairy. Fortunately, we don't have to worry about Charlie's archons attacking us because of the non-aggression clause in the contract. (If they do attack us, they'll have to pay 100000 schmuckers for it.)
After Armolad and Amandaria have surrendered, we bring in extra forces for protection:
Cupid has the move to make it to our position without aid and could even participate in the capture.
Using both their move to reach the 8 hex mark and a balrug pick up at the 8 hex mark, we can bring in up to 4 8-move heavy units (Will, Rolf, Yuri, and one other). (Balrug move =24-8-8= 4)
Lastly, we can use up the Balrug's last 8 move ferrying in 4 more regular sized units (these will have ridden 12 hexes on naughty kitties to a spot 4 hexes away from were we are) (I'm thinking Wanderous and 3 others, possibly zed archers that take well-armed and dancefighting when they level.) The 4 naughty kitties they rode on will need to stay by themselves for the night, but we can give them a bit more protection by using the 2 remaining kitties to bring in a couple more troops. Comet (the only flier besides Cupid) could join this group as well.
After everyone has been ferried to the hex, we should have enough strength there to be relatively safe. We wait out the elves' turn and then bed down for the night.
On the turn after the capture, Tod will ride Amandaria back to Dis city with Cupid managing the leash. The Balrug will drop Wanderous and the other 3 riders back at their mounts and then return to pick up T.Coil, Junetta, Armolad, and the Brickbat swarm before heading back to the city. The 4 heavies walk 8 hexes towards the city and the Balrug can ferry them back to Dis city from there.
We'll turn Amandaria ourselves and send Armolad back to Tenebris via Balrug. Creperum hires Rihanna again to turn her.
ETheBoyce wrote:T. Coil is going to suggest to the king that we try and convince IX not to take the deal immediately and instead to try and drag out negotiations as long as they can, giving every inclination they plan on actually accepting the deal but are playing hard to get. The Green King clearly wants to crush us so instead of taking his immediately offered terms they should push for even more than offered, everything that Breatharia agrees to becomes a base to ask for more things, this benefits both our sides. An additional option is to demand only accept short term peace deals, albeit with harsher penalties, to force the KiG to constantly keep his forces on his other border for fear of a deal ending and Ix just rolling him when he's Nomming us. The reason Ix should do this is because the offer itself is a clear ploy from a weakened side. The deal more heavily benefits Breatharia because while the return of lost units and time to rebuild is nice Bretharia gains those benefits in addition to putting down what is in effect a rebellion in its own lands. Accepting the deal as is is a short-term gain for Ix while allowing the KiG to regain sturdy footing, given that Breatharia recently captured an Ix city fighting Breatharia at full power seems like a potentially losing proposition for Ix so forcing them to fight two wars at once, or a war on two fronts depending on future alliances, seems like it would be a much better long term plan for Ix.
T. Coil is going to try an suggest this by thinking at his king really hard in hopes of the King noticing and Thinkagramming him, or he'll tell Tod so he can tell the King himself; telling Tod is a last resort option as clearly Tod is in over his head when it comes to diplomatic negotiations and thus would likely not relay the information properly.
(Seeing as how both of those units are currently warded thanks to the Tenebrisian efforts, and one was healed back from near death after absorbing a full blast by an Archon (only surviving because of a previous ward), rest assured that they are WELL aware of your efforts on their part. )BLANDCorporatio wrote:Supposedly. I hope our welcoming group of casters and turned units will remember to inform our new captives that they are alive thanks to our generous efforts, despite the treachery of their own king.
Tod grimaces slightly at Yuri's promotion then decides to make the best of things. He had been expecting something like this ever since the negotiation with the elves and it's a relief to get it over with.MarbitChow wrote:"And while my confidence in you is without question, I'm minded of the phrase 'Don't fell a tree with a sword when you've got an axe handy'. I've seen both you and Yuri engaged in communications and negotiations, and while your tactical acumen is without parallel, I believe Yuri's mindset and temperament will serve our side better as Chief Diplomat.
"Yuri, as Chief Diplomat, you are now responsible for communications and dealings with all other sides. In exactly the same way I trust Tod with all tactical matters, I entrust you with all of our negotiations, both with neutral and friendly sides and those that are actively hostile to us. Discuss the tactical ramifications of any treaties you wish to enter into, but final negotiating authority shall rest with you."
The King agrees that information is key to victory, and will queue up Imps for the next 2 turns. He asks that the Royal Guard be returned, and mentions that the Altruist Elves would make a good addition to his personal protect as well. Since the side is now starting to attract more attention, decapitation becomes a more realistic possibility.
MarbitChow wrote:Thinkagram between Tod and Zoltarus
Zoltarus immediately starts screaming as soon as the connection is established, "TOO SOON, I SAID! You have not read my diary yet. The circle is not yet complete. Why do you keep pestering me?" and terminates the call.
Hopefully, I'll be able to get a decent conversation out of him within a couple turns.MarbitChow wrote:Noted. Since she still spends most of her relaxation time with Wandereus, she won't make it through the book nearly as quickly as you did. Expect results after Turn 10.Swodaems wrote:On turn 7, after the call to Zoltarus: At some point when the Archons aren't in hearing range, I tell Junetta about the call and ask her opinion on the fact that Zoltarus is still alive. I also ask that she read over his diary and see if there is anything in it that does not make sense to her as a former Breathearian caster. (Did the Diary give the names of any other Breathearian casters that Junetta did not include in the group of currently alive ones that she knows about? Did it name a former chief warlord or ruler?)
ETheBoyce wrote:T. Coil was not pleased, yet again he was being prevented from properly practicing his art and craft. This was not much like the Tenebresia he had turned to, they were acting like their enemies! What would it matter if the Altruist Elves were broken!? Better they should feel the full weight of what T. Coil could do for when they were assisting him in the future! The Shockamancer growled as his mount descended the tower and headed out onto the battlefield to examine one of the fallen Gumptions. He would experiment on both its corpse as well as the Skull of the Bone Dwagon to see what differences their were between the two, why could he stun a walking tree but not a walking skeleton? He would also snag a normal corpse for further study if he could. In any event T. Coil would be far more sullen than he would otherwise be, he had Turned so easily because he thought this side had it's head on straight, but it was looking more and more he had exchanged one foolish side for another. The eventual choice of a Chief Caster would no doubt signal exactly the true colors of the King.
How fast are we talking here? Are there any side effects to either method besides mood changes? (When we turned Wanderous and Junetta they had fuzzy memories afterward.)MarbitChow wrote:Magical turnamancy would be much faster, but both Coil's and Triage's methods can eventually win them over thanks to Stockholm... I mean Erfholm Syndrome. Coil's method about twice as fast, but is likely to make them much more sullen, submissive and passive.0beron wrote:Again, I am aware that we cannot gain the Alt Elves as proper Natural Allies that allow us to pop more...but can they willingly Turn to us after Junetta, Triage, and Wanderus talk to them? Or do they require magical Turnamancy?
The King informs you that haste is not required, since he does not believe he is in immediate danger. He tells you to send them back when resources permit.Swodaems wrote:"I'll send the elves to you as soon as our healomancers finish convincing them to turn. However, I must beg your pardon if the royal guards aren't back in Tenebris until 3 turns from now. ..."
I know that you have. Zoltarus' response remains un-retconn'd.Swodaems wrote:I have read this man's diary.
It's an inexact process (unlike casting); it could take dozens of turns, or it could take only a few. Using the 'friendly' method gets the best results, as the unit embraces the side whole-heartedly with full information intact. Turning-via-shockamancy leads to the units lying or omitting data if they feel they can get away with it, although they'll always obey an order to the letter; it typically only takes 3-5 turns.Swodaems wrote:How fast are we talking here? Are there any side effects to either method besides mood changes? (When we turned Wanderous and Junetta they had fuzzy memories afterward.)
Honestly, while I thought it was a colossally bad idea at the time, at this point that die is cast- Tod might as well stick to his guns in-character. We're not going to be able to patch up that relationship with a few nice words, the King in Green thinks of us as a much lesser side (which we are) so he won't make concessions, and we can't actually accept any kind of truce or pact because they're the only side that we can take cities from at this point. Maybe there will be a bigger world map rolled out one day which gives us cities other than theirs to access/attack, but as of now our literal only route to expansion is taking their stuff. They know it, we know it; there's not a lot to say. At best we could provoke them into moving faster or thinking that we're going to move against a specific city next.Swodaems wrote:Since my plans of hate-spawning ridiculousness recieved a large amount of outcry against them when I posted of them earlier in the thread, I think a touch of solemnity is in order here. (Everyone should feel free to give opinions or ideas. )
As Rona points out, we're not allied with Charlie and they're off-turn, so they can't leave our airspace. They're stuck flying all night; we might be able to pass them some rations or something if we want to be nice and we can certainly talk with them, but they can't come inside.Swodaems wrote:We also need to do some talking with Charlie as well. ... Fortunately, we can invite the archons inside for dinner to discuss things. They have to stay the night anyway.
I'd propose that the no-longer-zed archers bank their AP in anticipation of eventually moving toward an Inspiration build, which requires Leadership, Paragon, and Regent. It will reduce their effectiveness in the near term and some- or even most- of them are probably going to die before they get there, but being able to pop elite garrison and/or zed archers would be invaluable. They're only 4 XP away from becoming archer warlords, in any case, which would make the whole lot of them much more useful.Swodaems wrote:We now have a large amount of units that need decisions about what to do with their AP. ... I would appreciate input about should be done.
This seems workable. However, it does eat up our next three-four turns with this- what will our city be doing during that time? With the King in Green now aware of his forces' loss, it's vitally important that we move on to our next objective quickly, before he has a chance to fortify. I believe we've discussed previously how Rainbow Springs is a natural rallying point for units from a half-dozen Breatheairian cities; I would very much like to take it before they can use it as such and make it virtually impregnable.Swodaems wrote:My plan to bring them both in:
In-character I have no comment on this as it seems like caster business, but out of character I'm not seeing how expending a resource that takes as much effort to create as a juice potion on doing your crafting just a little bit faster is remotely justified in this case. We don't have any pressing, immediate need to get more mooks as quickly as possible. If you can craft golems that can deal siege damage (even golems with natural Mining Picks) my feelings on this may change slightly because we could really use some cheap units capable of breaking down walls, but as long as they're essentially basic infantry not so much.0beron wrote:Vinny wants a Juice potion
"Da!" The warlord glances at the fallen gumptions, then clarifies his orders to the troops. "Taking least smashed gumption to dollamancer. Others to hall; make bonfires."0beron wrote:Vinny stops mid-stride, counterbalanced by the bale of hay, and ponders for a moment "Why yes, I could make use of one, please have it carried to my workshop! The rest are all fair game to you."
"Ha! Am always up for you. Will look forward to morning." While the archons were without a doubt tricky weasel women with shockamancy in their smiles, Yuri couldn't help but enjoy their company- if only because they went to such pains to ensure that their company was enjoyable. It was a shame that they couldn't be actual allies. As he bid Rona farewell for now and moved to finish overseeing post-battle cleanup, Yuri wondered if the dark archons that his own side would one day pop would be anything like them.MarbitChow wrote:Rona grins back at Yuri, and says "It's too bad we're forced to rest in your airspace tonight, but if you're up for it, I could show you a few 'sweet offerings' before we must leave your city tomorrow."
The promotion comes as a serious shock to Yuri- while he had felt that he handled Charlie's archons well enough both in the initial negotiations and in the turns following, there was a far cry between that and being put in charge of the side's diplomacy! And now he was being expected to be as much of a genius at talky battles as Tod was at proper fighting. "Is-" But his king had faith in him. He'd seen their actions and made his decision. Didn't he know best? "...honor, great King." He held his face steady- apparently being able to do that would now be in his job requirements- but it was the most terrifying honor he'd ever had.MarbitChow wrote:"I believe Yuri's mindset and temperament will serve our side better as Chief Diplomat."
The heavy warlord strokes his chin with a massive hand at the offer. If all went according to plan, it would make for an opportune moment for an introduction... and there would be little need for Tod's bonuses, whether he came or stayed behind, unless something went massively wrong. "Plan is good. Will need to talk to grass king for findings of elf plans, soon. Will lead team." He gives a glance at the Chief Warlord's bracer as a rather important point occurs to him. "If running talking battles, is needing thinkamancy for use. Erf is large place, cannot always be walking to talks. Chief Warlord is needing item Leadership bonuses- but something soon, yes?"Swodaems wrote:"Yuri, during the capture operation, there will be an opportunity for a member of the capture team to have another conversation with The King in Green before they enter Armolad's hex and initiate combat. I had planned to be a member of the capture team myself, but this may be a good opportunity for you to declare your new position to the elves. Do you wish to lead the capture team?"
Exate wrote:Out of character I'm not seeing how expending a resource that takes as much effort to create as a juice potion on doing your crafting just a little bit faster is remotely justified in this case. [We don't need more troops, unless they can do Siege.]0beron wrote:Vinny wants a Juice potion