Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:13 am

Werebiscuit wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:Combat

Combat Modifiers
Combat modifiers only apply to units with the Military special. These modifiers represent the skill and tactical awareness that these units possess. When applying multiple combat modifiers, a unit cannot reduce their effective Combat or Defense below 1. A unit can apply one (1) Combat Modifier for each level they possess. The same combat modifier cannot be selected more than once / level. Special Abilities can be purchased to increase this limit.

[Dodge: Get Defense +3 against 1 attack / level.
Take Cover: Get Defense +4 against 1 attack / level. (Requires terrain that grants cover.)

I'm not getting how this works with the bolded and underlined statements. At level 4 I can select 4 different combat modifiers but why the once /level ? shouldn't it be that I can select them only once ? no need for the per level unless at level 4 i can select the same one 4 times.... and if so why state it as the 1st statement then forms the limit ?

perhaps some examples to add clarity would be in order ?


Quick example: 4th level unit takes the two abilities to give him +5 Combat Modifiers, so he gets to use 9. He declares Dodge x4 (+12 defense) and Take Cover x4 (+16 Defense), plus Block. 4 archers shoot at him, then on the next phase, William shoots at him. His Dodge and Take Cover are now exhausted, since he's used them against 4 attacks, and William shoots him without the +28 defense he got against the other archers.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Nnelg » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:21 am

MarbitChow wrote:It's the only way I could model a game-world effect for the ability to selectively change the perceptions of a single individual.

Well, we've never seen Foolamancy do such a thing in-comic, so if this is the only way to implement such a concept I'd say it's better to just scrap it entirely.


MarbitChow wrote:And since the PCs will NEVER get a Thinkamancer, I'm okay with exposing thinkamancy-type magic to other schools, if it's justifiable.

Well, you could still make a Thinkamancy school, but just forbid PCs from specializing in Thinkamancy, to which the caster link you're so worried about would also be restricted. In fact, I'm feeling inspired to make some spell sets for a few other schools you haven't included yet... Would you mind if I worked on sort of a hypothetical rules set for them, which is unimplemented in-game but which can still be worked on and discussed by those whom are interested?


EDIT:
MarbitChow wrote:I still need to get the Squad rules straightened out

I may be able to help you with this one; just tell me what you're having problems with.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:31 am

Nnelg wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:It's the only way I could model a game-world effect for the ability to selectively change the perceptions of a single individual.
Well, we've never seen Foolamancy do such a thing in-comic, so if this is the only way to implement such a concept I'd say it's better to just scrap it entirely.
We've seen Jack change Jillian's perceptions (when she landed to an imaginary honor guard). This spell would be able to replicate the behavior of the Distraction Beast as well. A foolamancer can't get it until 5th level, so I'll leave it in for now. The wording may change so that it doesn't sound quite so absolute and behaves more like a really powerful suggestion spell, but really, the ability to completely alter the perceptions of a person does mean you can make them react in pretty much any way you want.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:37 am

Nnelg wrote:Well, you could still make a Thinkamancy school, but just forbid PCs from specializing in Thinkamancy, to which the caster link you're so worried about would also be restricted. In fact, I'm feeling inspired to make some spell sets for a few other schools you haven't included yet... Would you mind if I worked on sort of a hypothetical rules set for them, which is unimplemented in-game but which can still be worked on and discussed by those whom are interested?
Please be my guest; just start a new thread so that it doesn't get mixed in with official rules, and mark it clearly as such so that there's no confusion. If I like what I see, I'll probably swipe the ideas and make them official.

Nnelg wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:I still need to get the Squad rules straightened out
I may be able to help you with this one; just tell me what you're having problems with.
Time, mostly. I need to make sure that the rules are clear, concise, and do everything I want them to. LTDave's Marbit Island has given me some ideas; now I just need to get them into words.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:50 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
WaterMonkey314 wrote:1) The cost for a Hardened Ward is much higher than a regular ward than seems justified - it protects against Status Effects, but is that really worth 3 x the juice of Remove Status Effect? (Or alternatively, more than half of Triage's current juice.)
2) Would it be an abuse of the rules as intended if I took Burnout and used it to gain an additional 84 juice per turn for Warding units? (Since Triage has 22 Hits now, leaving 21 hits for Burnout at 4 juice / hit = 84 juice).

1) Removing status requires that you are in the combat. Warded units won't necessarily be in the same hex as you, especially as the campaign world expands. Also, it's REALLY hard to remove stun on yourself when you're stunned.

2) It would not be an abuse of the rules. Burnout is intended for use in an emergency - it HURTS. But doctors physically punish themselves in our world to save others.

But the Juice that it returns might be a bit high; I may knock it down to 2 Juice / hit instead. You'd still be able to use it off-turn, regardless.


1) That makes sense. Especially in a situation where a unit might get repeatedly stunned...
2) Ok, just wondering - and can you make a final call before I decide what Triage's spells are? Also, who will decide Junetta's rebuild?
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:53 pm

WaterMonkey314 wrote:2) Ok, just wondering - and can you make a final call before I decide what Triage's spells are? Also, who will decide Junetta's rebuild?
Consider it official. Even at 1 Hit for 2 Juice, you're trading 1 Hit of yours for 16 hits of healing, so I think the conversion is ok. I'll update the rules.

Also, I'll be updating Junetta's and Wandereus' builds.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:19 pm

I've updated the Abilities section to start using 'Military' instead of Non-Caster, since there are now a LOT of non-caster units.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Nnelg » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:39 pm

MarbitChow wrote:We've seen Jack change Jillian's perceptions (when she landed to an imaginary honor guard).
[...]
the ability to completely alter the perceptions of a person does mean you can make them react in pretty much any way you want.

I don't see how that was altering her perceptions any more than a Phantasm would. It certainly didn't alter them anywhere near the degree necessary to achieve even partial control over a unit. That sort of deception would require the complete control of all five of the senses (and several more unique to Erfworlders, such as stat sense) and a very thorough understanding of the unit's psyche (which could probably only be obtained via Thinkamancy anyways).


MarbitChow wrote:This spell would be able to replicate the behavior of the Distraction Beast as well.

I'm, uh... I'm not entirely sure that was a spell... :lol:

But you're comparing a nuke to a cherry bomb, anyways. If you want to include the Odious Distraction Beast, a spell which causes a "Distracted" status for a small number of phases would be more appropriate.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:00 pm

Nnelg wrote:But you're comparing a nuke to a cherry bomb, anyways. If you want to include the Odious Distraction Beast, a spell which causes a "Distracted" status for a small number of phases would be more appropriate.
Fair enough. The spell's out, and Projection has been updated to allow for such custom effects in role-play only scenarios. There will not be a "Distracted" status in combat - combat is already pretty distracting - so that should settle the issue.

(Edit) Also decreased the AP cost of Juice & Succulent to 0.5 AP. There are a number of 0.5 AP spells out there, and not much else to spend AP on for casters, so if they have an extra 0.5 AP sitting around, they've got something to drop it on now.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Nnelg » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:54 pm

Thanks; I don't have any other problems with Foolamancy, then (save for the odd nitpick which isn't worth mentioning).

Actually, wait; I can't seem to find the juice cost for Phantasm.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:56 pm

Nnelg wrote:Actually, wait; I can't seem to find the juice cost for Phantasm.
2 Juice / unit. The rules have been updated.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Exate » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:44 pm

A few questions about Sappers based upon the information available here, which is the only place I think they're mentioned:
-They do not have any normal offensive ability (Attack, Strike, or Fire), and are entirely reliant upon the Smash granted by their picks- and thus cannot attack non-structures at all?
-They pop with no available AP (and thus cannot be popped as zeds)?
-They cannot be a PC class?

They seem way underpowered and overspecialized at the moment, which is probably why they cost only 1 UP. But that leaves the entire unit class only usable as massive zerg-rush waves on the walls of enemy cities. Any side with some time to spare would probably have their Sappers hand off their picks and then disband them, because there's literally nothing that makes a Sapper better at its job than a warrior with a pick would be. I propose giving them Attack, AP equal to an archer, and Smash as an inherent special instead of bringing equipment into it; then just make them a normal class like everything else.

On the other hand, maybe what you want is a unit type only usable in massive zerg-rush waves and completely useless against anything other than buildings. Please clarify if so.

We should probably have rules for how natural allies work explicitly listed in here, since we have them now. Per the comic, they pop directly off Shmuckers rather than using city-based pop mechanics, which makes their creation somewhat different than most units. Either rules for that should be outlined, or how they fit into the normal system should be stated.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:00 pm

Natural allies pop by spending shmuckers, just as in the comic. They cost 25 shmuckers per UP to pop, and 5 shmuckers per 1 UP upkeep. Natural Allies can pop as any of the Military builds, and will also have a special unit unique to their race. Gobwins (and Marbits) get Sappers.

Sappers were a last-minute add-in this weekend; I intended to flesh them out a bit more, but I wanted to get the Squad stuff worked out first. PCs can't be Sappers. Sappers are essentially useless for combat except for knocking down structures, which is why they're cheap, but they should have Assault listed. (I've renamed Attack to Assault so that I can refer to Assault, Strike and Fire as Attacks.) They don't level. If you uncroak a sapper as a lesser uncroaked, they'll be armed with their pick. I also forgot to add their special in the text: Mining.

Sappers can mine under any city (or mine) that is in a mountainous region, giving each unit a small random chance to find a gem each turn. Dis City is not in a mountain hex, but Tenebris is.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:18 am

Bumping to announce that the Squad rules have been added. Please review the entire rule set and let me know if you see anything wrong, or if anything is unclear.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby ETheBoyce » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:54 am

Question: Does Shockamancy still damage structures?
Last edited by ETheBoyce on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Lord of Monies » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:09 am

Oooh, ok, so with a chance to re-spec, I could relatively easily take heavy as well as bodyguard now. Marbit, the extra stats heavy gives on level up, is that gained retroactively as well?

Everyone else what would be the better idea, going heavy so I get a load more stats (thinking tons more hits too) or the ability to use mounts, which would make me more mobile (and the mount can soak up hits instead of me when bodyguarding).
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:28 am

ETheBoyce wrote:Question: Does Shockamancy still damage structures?
Yes, but only Hoboken. I'll add a clarification to the spell.

Lord of Monies wrote:Marbit, the extra stats heavy gives on level up, is that gained retroactively as well?
Retroactively. You get 7 Stats from taking Heavy, plus 3 Stats per level total.

Lord of Monies wrote:(and the mount can soak up hits instead of me when bodyguarding).
Just so we're clear (and I may be reading too much into your post) but Mounts cannot absorb the damage from Bodyguard. They'll be able to absorb attacks directed at you, but you still take the transferred damage of the unit you're protecting.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Lord of Monies » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:34 am

MarbitChow wrote:
Lord of Monies wrote:Marbit, the extra stats heavy gives on level up, is that gained retroactively as well?
Retroactively. You get 7 Stats from taking Heavy, plus 3 Stats per level total.


Ok, so I could take it now, but there's also no rush. Arright, I'll have another look at my other options and think on it.

MarbitChow wrote:
Lord of Monies wrote:(and the mount can soak up hits instead of me when bodyguarding).
Just so we're clear (and I may be reading too much into your post) but Mounts cannot absorb the damage from Bodyguard. They'll be able to absorb attacks directed at you, but you still take the transferred damage of the unit you're protecting.


I thought I was remembering that wrong. Yeah, that makes sense. Just means that the mount will protect my hits more, meaning I can use them to bodyguard more. I get the feeling I'll end up with way more hits than whatever my mount may be.
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby Werebiscuit » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:18 pm

Looks like Rolf has 2 AP to spend once more as he spent on Mighty blow, Block Interpose & Co-ordinate... which now bedcome redundant or actually for free.
Spending 1 on paragon but the other I'm torn between dance fighting and berserker. Both give me an immediate +4 (dance with a full stack of dancefighters) but the balance is if I don't take dance fighting the stack only gets +3/+3. I cover the extra +1 to combat by taking berserker giving +2/+1 instead of the usual +1/+1 for paragon so they only lose 1 from defence.
The corollary is that berserker gives me +4 without a stack or in a stack on non-dancers. Marbit do both or neither have any effect on your combat round or siege damage ? ( I read about dance fighting not affecting siege but what about berserk ?)
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Re: Darkness Rising - Rules (v2.0)

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:27 pm

Werebiscuit wrote: The corollary is that beserker gives me +4 without a stack or in a stack on non-dancers. Marbit do both or neither have any effect on your combat round or siege damage ? ( I read about dance fighting not affecting siege but what about beserk ?)
The phase you act is still based on your base Combat.
Siege Damage is now based on Structural Points, which normal units don't inflict - only Coil has the ability via Hoboken. Damage done with Siege, against either structures or units, is a flat amount of damage, although siege weapon attacks ignore defense. You can't rage with a Siege weapon any more, either - they have to be reloaded before they can fire again. This should have the effect of Rams doing the fastest damage once they reach the structure; Coil is now probably the single most effective Siege unit, but also the squishiest. :D
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