Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Speculation, discoveries, complaints, accusations, praise, and all other Erfworld discussion.

Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby mantimeforgot » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:40 pm

Nnelg wrote:Word of Rob says no Retconjuration. End of story.


I don't see why there's still argument over this. We've already established it's never going to come up in the comic, so why debate the hypothetical edge cases?


Need to stop overselling your cases people; I will be perfectly pleased if it never turns out to be the case that Retconjuration has no relation to the finale of Erfworld (thats the only place it can occupy in the plot as once an actor has it the story is over), but that does not mean that "WoG" is that there is no Retconjuration.

Take a look at the citation again:

" No ordinary caster can practice it; there are no Retconjurers in Erfworld. It is reserved for the Titans. And I can tell you, they don't like it much and use it as seldom as possible"

Emphasis added is mine; The point being is that a being not native to Erfworld can qualify (and becoming a titan is itself a possible story completion route). Moreover, I seriously doubt anyone of you are willing to claim that the author is not smart enough to recognize this "loophole" in the text.

Will Retconjuration have a place in Erfworld plot? Probably not. Could it and still be consistent with word from on high? Certainly.

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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby Umbrella_merc » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:32 pm

Hopefully there won't be any, but If there are I'm sure Rob can pull it off without it coming off as out of place
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:57 pm

mantimeforgot wrote:Emphasis added is mine; The point being is that a being not native to Erfworld can qualify (and becoming a titan is itself a possible story completion route).
Unless you read the quote with a bit of context, and realize that the "Titans of Erfworld" are Rob, Xin, and Jamie.

Parson is not going to kill a god. Titans will not be introduced as characters. This is a story about love and hate, peace and war. It's not about POWERFUL COSMIC CONFLICT.

As I said, I love the fact that we'll argue EVERYTHING, and every side can find interpretations of words that support their view, but this is one of the few instances where I think that it has been spelled out as clearly as it possibly can be, and anyone who chooses to read it any other way is being willfully ignorant.
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby raphfrk » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:38 am

Another option would be that they are restricted in some way. It could be that they can't change known facts. Once they know something, they can't change it. In much the same way that when Predictamancers "see" the future, it gets locked down, once a retconjuror "sees" the past, it gets locked down too.
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby gobe » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:13 am

I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet: WoG can be retconjured.

Any debate over it is pointless. Basically, Titans are so powerful that they can choose to do anything without ever contradicting themselves, thanks to the unique power of retconjuration. How could this not apply to a citation about that very discipline?
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby effataigus » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:24 pm

Final update of Erfworld:

Hi guys... Rob here. Turns out Parson made it back to Stupidworld, and he found Ruthlessness. Anyway, I'm writing this at sword point, so lets pretend all of that Charlie/Peanut-Butter/Armageddon stuff of the last book didn't happen. Umm, everyone was happy. The end.
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby No one in particular » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:16 pm

effataigus wrote:Final update of Erfworld:

Hi guys... Rob here. Turns out Parson made it back to Stupidworld, and he found Ruthlessness. Anyway, I'm writing this at sword point, so lets pretend all of that Charlie/Peanut-Butter/Armageddon stuff of the last book didn't happen. Umm, everyone was happy. The end.


*snerk* I like it.
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby Finwe » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:05 pm

Nnelg wrote:Word of Rob says no Retconjuration. End of story.


Rob is not a being of pure law. He may later change is mind.

Or a retconjurer might do it for him.
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby Nnelg » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:31 pm

Finwe wrote:
Nnelg wrote:Word of Rob says no Retconjuration. End of story.

Rob is not a being of pure law. He may later change is mind.

Or a retconjurer might do it for him.

That's not really a valid argument. Rob could write literally anything into Erfworld if he wanted.

If it is possible to prove what is or isn't "possible" in a webcomic at all, then it is absolutely proven that Retconjuration isn't "possible".


That's really all there is to it. How anyone could honestly see it differently is a complete mystery to me.
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:21 pm

"Retconjuration" exists ONLY within Erfworld. It does not exist in our world. "Editing" exists in our world. "Retconjuration" is a magic school, like Croakamancy. Rob cannot be retconjured any more than he can be decrypted. He can be brought back to life if he flat-lines, but that's not decryption. Rob's WoG cannot be retconjured. He can certainly change it, but that's not retconjuration.

Retconjuration "The Joke" occurs when Rob edits text that has already been published to the web. This is normally called "editing". It's not even a real 'retcon', because retroactive continuity is an entirely different beast - it's a later story in a serial that reframes, changes or invalidates the events in a previous story.

Retconjuration "The Magic" does not occur within the Erfworld story.

If you're going to start using "retconjuration" as a generic term for "editing", then that's bad and you're a bad person who should feel bad.
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby effataigus » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:53 pm

MarbitChow wrote:"Retconjuration" exists ONLY within Erfworld. It does not exist in our world. "Editing" exists in our world. "Retconjuration" is a magic school, like Croakamancy. Rob cannot be retconjured any more than he can be decrypted. He can be brought back to life if he flat-lines, but that's not decryption. Rob's WoG cannot be retconjured. He can certainly change it, but that's not retconjuration.
So, could an obituaries editor retcon Rob with the help of a retractions editor?

If I'm understanding correctly, by your definition of retcon both contradictory works would have to exist simultaneously as creator sanctioned works for it to be a retcon... e.g. if Jane Austen has written P+P with Zombies and declared it and P+P to both be about the same characters and both be true.

Otherwise it's editing or "Retcon the Joke"?

If so, what's so wrong with them calling it Retcon the Joke but leaving off "The Joke?" Rob did it.
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:05 pm

effataigus wrote:So, could an obituaries editor retcon Rob with the help of a retractions editor?
No. "Retcon" is a term that primarily has meaning in the Comic/Serial world. One author writes a story. Another author continues the story, but decides to alter the events that the 1st author published. That's a retcon. Newspapers don't retcon - they issue retractions and corrections. The original paper, with the error, still exists.

"Retconjuration" (the joke) is different from a ret-con. Retconjuration (the joke) is simply editing a web-published work of art. Retconjuration (the school) is just an in-joke reference within Erfworld.

effataigus wrote:If I'm understanding correctly, by your definition of retcon both contradictory works would have to exist simultaneously as creator sanctioned works for it to be a retcon... e.g. if Jane Austen has written P+P with Zombies and declared it and P+P to both be about the same characters and both be true.

It's not *my* definition. It's *the* definition: Wikipedia Urban Dictionary
It doesn't have to be the same author. Retcon in comics don't change the original work - you can go back and purchase issue #XXX, even though issue #YYY clarified that the events in issue #XXX didn't happen the way it first appeared.

effataigus wrote:Otherwise it's editing or "Retcon the Joke"? If so, what's so wrong with them calling it Retcon the Joke but leaving off "The Joke?" Rob did it.
Nothing, as long as you don't attempt to use logic from "Retcon the Joke" to justify "Retconjuration the Magic" taking place in Erfworld by confusing the two. Retconjuration =/= Retconjuration in this case, because you're using a single English word to represent 2 distinct concepts, one of which only applies within the Erfworld story itself.
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby effataigus » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:11 pm

Ok, I think I understand both arguments now. Mantimeforgot does still make a good point, however. As long as there is some evidence to suggest that:

Stupidworld is our Earth (as opposed to just any old Earth).
A Titan is a writer of the story (if only by joking implication)
The story is written by webcomic publishers on our Earth.
Parson is portrayed as webcomic publisher from Stupidworld.

... then there is a mechanism by which Parson could edit the Erfworld record as we perceive it, and thereby practice retconjuration the joke despite being an entity that resides on Erfworld. Alternately, he could (ghost - since I clearly don't believe Parson is real) write his own fanfic, and thereby practice retconjuration the thing, which may or may not be equivalent to retconjuration the magic.

Unlike MTF, I'd use no language that implies that I think that this is a likely plot resolution mechanism... mostly because, while good for a laugh and definitely out of the box thinking along the lines of what we'd expect from Parson, I don't believe it is very good story telling.
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby MarbitChow » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:31 pm

effataigus wrote:Stupidworld is our Earth (as opposed to just any old Earth).
Well, seeing as how people don't PLOT! out of existence in our world, I think there's a strong argument to be made that Stupidworld is not in fact our world. :D
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby drachefly » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:27 pm

It's a rare event, to be sure.
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby effataigus » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:44 pm

MarbitChow wrote:Well, seeing as how people don't PLOT! out of existence in our world, I think there's a strong argument to be made that Stupidworld is not in fact our world. :D
What, really? I get plotted around so often I don't even remember which drafty corner of the multiverse I came from...

You make a good point, but Erfworld is predicated on our collectively pretending that Parson is more than just 1's and 0's on a server. Furthermore, if he did some of what we're talking about here, it wouldn't even be the first time that Parson has been attributed with generating/altering content that is real-world web-accessible.
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby olafsinsight » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:48 am

MarbitChow wrote:
Rich has broken the 4th wall on a number of occasions for its humor value. Rob never has, nor do I ever expect him to.


On page 110 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0122.html) Jack looks us all dead in the eye and refers to the strip (medium, as in art). It was actually pretty creepy when it dawned on me. Registered just to say that, btw. TTFE
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Re: Retconjurors in Erfworld.

Postby tgriff02 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:27 pm

effataigus wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:Well, seeing as how people don't PLOT! out of existence in our world, I think there's a strong argument to be made that Stupidworld is not in fact our world. :D
What, really? I get plotted around so often I don't even remember which drafty corner of the multiverse I came from...

You make a good point, but Erfworld is predicated on our collectively pretending that Parson is more than just 1's and 0's on a server. Furthermore, if he did some of what we're talking about here, it wouldn't even be the first time that Parson has been attributed with generating/altering content that is real-world web-accessible.


Hmmm... while I don't think that it's a direct break of the 4th wall, Jack definitely slammed his head against it, didn't he, lol. That may have been a once only gag playing off Jack's mental condition. He was so crackedat them oment that he saw the REAL truth of his reality? lol. Good catch, that was quite amusing.
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