Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:22 am

The Colonel wrote:I lost track of what turn is it.

Our first Turn after the Battle of Dis City is Turn 10, if I'm not mistaken. We're about to progress the game up to Turn 13.

The current plan is to embark on Turn 13, reaching Logan's Run on Turn 17. You need to keep the Uncroaked from Dis City intact for that long.

Also, take note that the rules of Croakamancy have changed such that you can't change the build of a unit when you raise it.

I suggest that you start on the Archers, getting as many of them Skeletal as possible. If any of the Elves which croaked in the battle had Bodyguard, you should Uncroak a couple of them so that we don't have to assign as much of our dwindling supply of Brickbats to Bill.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:29 am

The Colonel wrote:No problem whatsoever, though I am not good at this boop.

Anyways, so then...

(Not Final) Popping Orders:
Spoiler: show
Regular Popping:

Turn 10-11 Tenebris: 16x Imps (Total of 32 Imps.)

Turn 12-13 Tenebris: Bad Ass (One Bad Ass popping over 2 Turns.)

Turn 10-13 Dis City: 2x Archers (Total of 8 Archers.)


Gobwins: (Including the Gobwins that Creeperum's popping in Tenebris...)

Turn 12 Tenebris:
- 1x Garrison Spearman
- 18x Garrison Miners
- 2x Garrison Artisans
- 1x Gobwin Spearman


Turn 13 Tenebris:
- 4x Gobwin Spearman


Turn 12 Dis City:
- 2x Garrison Artisans
- 3x Gobwin Artisans
- 1x Gobwin Spearman


Turn 13 Dis City:
- 2x Gobwin Spearman

EDIT(s):
I noticed the deadline had been extended; also fixed the Turn 13/14 Dis City Gobwins.
Also swapped out two of Tenebris Artisans for Miners, since we have no particular need for more units that wouldn't do much other than eat upkeep.
Last edited by Nnelg on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Exate » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:54 am

The 600 shmuckers/turn that we're spending to support popping gobwins is a nasty hit to our finances that's going to add up very quickly if we keep popping them at the maximum rate. No objection to popping many of them at the moment, but we'll need to keep a close eye on the treasury because continuing that pattern will quickly add up to many thousands of shmuckers which would be more valuable stockpiled and then invested into our cities to increase pop rates and incomes.

Assuming that your Turn 14 Dis City orders for gobwin popping were meant to be Turn 13 Dis City, I have no substantial objection to the pop list as posted. I'm not incredibly convinced of the usefulness of the Bad Ass, but we will need to build a substantial airforce sooner or later and might as well start now.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:28 pm

Exate wrote:The 600 shmuckers/turn that we're spending to support popping gobwins is a nasty hit to our finances that's going to add up very quickly if we keep popping them at the maximum rate. No objection to popping many of them at the moment, but we'll need to keep a close eye on the treasury because continuing that pattern will quickly add up to many thousands of shmuckers which would be more valuable stockpiled and then invested into our cities to increase pop rates and incomes.

Assuming that your Turn 14 Dis City orders for gobwin popping were meant to be Turn 13 Dis City, I have no substantial objection to the pop list as posted. I'm not incredibly convinced of the usefulness of the Bad Ass, but we will need to build a substantial airforce sooner or later and might as well start now.

Neither am I. I'd rather pop 4 Naughty Kitties now, so that all the Gobwins we popped in Tenebris can make it to Logan's Run.

Then we can pop the Bad Ass on Turns 14-15, and it will still make it in time for the battle.


Hm, what do you think? We could use the extra mounts, since we don't currently have enough (what with the new casters, and needing some to pull Bone Carts). It would make a good compromise, I'd say.

And if we aren't going to, I'd rather we didn't pop any Gobwins in Tenebris (besides the miners) at all, then (well, maybe a couple). It'd be better to pop them Turns 14-15 in Dis City, and Balrug them to the battle.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Exate » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:04 pm

Naughty Kitties are probably a better investment at the moment, but I'm not a fan of having our forces arrive piecemeal- remember that the enemy has scouts and flying units, so it's entirely possible that they could locate small unit groups in transit and sweep in to eliminate them. It's fine to have lone units wandering about within our own territory, but when approaching an enemy city it's important to be in a large enough party that a surprise attack could be, if not fended off entirely, then at least seriously damaged. Using the Balrug to get units to Logan Run at all makes me concerned, because they are incredibly valuable, incredibly fragile, and that's a war zone.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:18 pm

Exate wrote:Naughty Kitties are probably a better investment at the moment, but I'm not a fan of having our forces arrive piecemeal- remember that the enemy has scouts and flying units, so it's entirely possible that they could locate small unit groups in transit and sweep in to eliminate them. It's fine to have lone units wandering about within our own territory, but when approaching an enemy city it's important to be in a large enough party that a surprise attack could be, if not fended off entirely, then at least seriously damaged. Using the Balrug to get units to Logan Run at all makes me concerned, because they are incredibly valuable, incredibly fragile, and that's a war zone.

Actually, that's a good point. Thankfully, unless the enemy has really good scouts or a lot of units with overland move {16}, then we should be ok. These Gobwins aren't necessarily going to be participating in the battle, they just need to be able to get there for Tod's Training Exp.

Also, I don't think entering the Hex will be a problem either way. Marbit said that Hexes are getting a lot bigger, so the Hex Border will not necessarily be within range of the walls. And if it is, Nemo can always use Baffle to provide a safe unloading zone (for Balrugs too, if can fly in at ground level).


And as for enemy scouts, that's why I wanted us to pop a Dark Archon. Her Spellsense ability should allow her to spot (and eliminate) invisible scouts.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby MarbitChow » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:30 pm

Nnelg wrote:These Gobwins aren't necessarily going to be participating in the battle, they just need to be able to get there for Tod's Training Exp.
Note that Tod is currently training the Tenebris 2nd-level spearmen S01-S04 and SA01-04. Regus was originally scheduled to be part of that rotation before he was retired to NPC.

It will be 9 turns before those units will reach 3rd level, so Tod will not be able to train gobwins until Turn 20 based on his last orders.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:53 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
Nnelg wrote:These Gobwins aren't necessarily going to be participating in the battle, they just need to be able to get there for Tod's Training Exp.
Note that Tod is currently training the Tenebris 2nd-level spearmen S01-S04 and SA01-04. Regus was originally scheduled to be part of that rotation before he was retired to NPC.

It will be 9 turns before those units will reach 3rd level, so Tod will not be able to train gobwins until Turn 20 based on his last orders.

Regardless, those units won't be getting his Training Exp on the turn they participate in the Battle, will they? Also, Tod may change his orders (and the units he's training may level from battle Exp).

Regardless, we still haven't settled on the popping queue. The Gobwin's popping orders may change. Or, we may use the Gobwins in battle after all.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Exate » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:07 pm

Nnelg wrote:Actually, that's a good point. Thankfully, unless the enemy has really good scouts or a lot of units with overland move {16}, then we should be ok.
Do we know the overland move of faeries? It doesn't seem to be listed in their combat stats for the last battle, and I'd say there's a decent chance it's 16.

Nnelg wrote:And as for enemy scouts, that's why I wanted us to pop a Dark Archon. Her Spellsense ability should allow her to spot (and eliminate) invisible scouts.
Dedicating a 64-UP unit to hunting down 1-UP units sounds a poor allocation of our resources, unless you've got some suggestion as to a way to make it more efficient.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:34 pm

Exate wrote:
Nnelg wrote:Actually, that's a good point. Thankfully, unless the enemy has really good scouts or a lot of units with overland move {16}, then we should be ok.
Do we know the overland move of faeries? It doesn't seem to be listed in their combat stats for the last battle, and I'd say there's a decent chance it's 16.

Hm... And the second group would certainly lack archers...

Well then, I guess this means we shouldn't pop those extra Gobwins in Tenebris, after all. The Bad Ass has more than enough move though, so we needn't worry about it.

Updated popping orders:
Spoiler: show
Regular Popping:

Turn 10-11 Tenebris: 16x Imps (Total of 32 Imps.)

Turn 12-13 Tenebris: Bad Ass (One Bad Ass popping over 2 Turns.)

Turn 10-13 Dis City: 2x Archers (Total of 8 Archers.)


Gobwins: (Including the Gobwins that Creeperum's popping in Tenebris...)

Turn 12 Tenebris:
- 1x Garrison Spearman
- 16x Garrison Miners
- 2x Garrison Artisans


Turn 13 Tenebris:
- None


Turn 12 Dis City:
- 2x Garrison Artisans
- 3x Gobwin Artisans
- 1x Gobwin Spearman


Turn 13 Dis City:
- 2x Gobwin Spearman


Exate wrote:
Nnelg wrote:And as for enemy scouts, that's why I wanted us to pop a Dark Archon. Her Spellsense ability should allow her to spot (and eliminate) invisible scouts.
Dedicating a 64-UP unit to hunting down 1-UP units sounds a poor allocation of our resources, unless you've got some suggestion as to a way to make it more efficient.

Oh, of course that wouldn't be the only thing the Dark Archon would do (she'd make a fine commander for our Fliers, once she gets Leadership). But also, the value of denying the enemy vital reconnaissance goes beyond the simple UP costs involved.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:18 am

Well, given that nobody has commented, and the deadline is nigh...

Marbit, can we assume that the Merc PCs have left Tenebris early enough to reach Dis City in time for Charlie's Merc Mission on foot?

Also, the Balrug should spend the last 8 of its move headed back to Tenebris, in an effort to speed up transportation. On Turn 13, it should be able to pick up Melissa (after she uses up all her overland move headed towards Dis City) and have just enough move left to rendezvous with the column headed towards Logan's Run. (Perhaps the Mercenaries may even be able to camp with it, to guard it... Not that it's likely to matter- I hope.)

Could the Gobwin Artisans perhaps Fabricate a cart to carry tools and equipment, and possibly whatever they need to Fabricate items in the field (if they can't already do that)? If so, they should make one while they're in Dis City.

Also, the Garrison Artisans in Tenebris will start filling up an armory. A half-dozen Nets, couple Rally Banners, a couple Bone Carts, and a dozen mining picks in that order are commissioned in a repeating queue. Any other fabricatable items added to rules later should retroactively be added to this list. The Garrison Artisans in Dis City (and all future Garrison Artisans in other Cities) should have such orders as well, (superseded by priority orders, of course) such that we'll have an armory of everything we need in each city.

Oh, which brings me to another point: is there any way one of our units could voluntarily destroy equipment? As in, to keep the enemy from capturing it?

Finally, our Imps should have orders to determine how the enemy gets his intelligence... Do they have invisible scouts like we do? Do they use only Lookamancy? Do they use Fairies, or some other non-veiled scouts? Also, could you put an Imp Status Report up on the Reference Section, please?
Last edited by Nnelg on Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:52 am

Nnelg wrote:Marbit, can we assume that the Merc PCs have left Tenebris early enough to reach Dis City in time for Charlie's Merc Mission on foot?
Yes.

Nnelg wrote:Also, the Balrug should spend the last 8 of its move headed back to Tenebris, in an effort to speed up transportation.
Leaving the Balrug unprotected at the end of any turn is unwise. It is very easy to destroy.

Nnelg wrote:Could the Gobwin Artisans perhaps Fabricate a cart to carry tools and equipment
Artisans can fabricate with any raw materials they find in the hex. In a woodland or mountainous environment, raw materials are abundant.

Nnelg wrote:Oh, which brings me to another point: is there any way one of our units could voluntarily destroy equipment? As in, to keep the enemy from capturing it?
Both your own units and enemy units can destroy unattended equipment by taking an action. Large items, like the Bone Cart, may take several actions, but all equipment can be voluntarily destroyed easily.

Nnelg wrote:Finally, our Imps should have orders to determine how the enemy gets his intelligence... Do they have invisible scouts like we do? Do they use only Lookamancy? Do they use Fairies, or some other non-veiled scouts? Also, could you put an Imp Status Report up on the Reference Section, please?
I'll eventually be placing all the turn reports, which include imp status reports, into the Reference section (or at least placing links there for easily locating them).
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:02 pm

(Found a quote about the Imps, saying we had two assigned to each enemy City)

The Imps should be assigned to two patrol Routes along the path to Dis City. One imp will thoroughly check all hexes exactly 8 away from the target city, the other will run a route in between the city and a distance 8 hexes out (running different paths each way). The two imps have one place where their routes intersect, so that they can share information. The outer Imp will always end turn in that hex, the inner Imp will end turn on the first hex in its route after that. The inner Imp will move first, and if it spots something it will relay the information to the outer Imp. The inner Imp will then conduct its own patrol route: first scanning the hexes 8 away from the city, then using any leftover move to scan hexes up to 12 hexes away before returning to the start (unless it finds something).

Any Thinkagrams left over at the end of each Turn will be used to contact the outer Imps, in series. Creeperum will check up on the status of each Imp at the end of the Turn, to see if any have croaked or deviated from their patrol route. Those which have (and/or their partner) will be immediately contacted to confirm their status.

By my calculations, no more than 9 Imps are needed to patrol all hexes 6 hexes away from a city. Therefore, after accounting for the 8 Imps which are dispatched on the escort mission, 9 will be dispatched to Dis City, 9 will remain in Tenebris, and 2 will be dispatched to guard the Logan's Run-Tenebris route.



(Ok, forget about the Balrug. I have no time, got to go.)
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:28 pm

You control neither the Imps nor the Thinkagrams, those are the of the purview of Tod and Yuri. Further the King will know if any of the Imps become croaked via natural Thinkamancy. The scouts are doing what they should be, which is scouting both for Forage and for additional information, you never know when another Ruins hex will pop up!
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby bob the 6th » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:07 pm

I do think we get to know for free the location of the imp and its status, so no need to spend thinkagrams on that.

Also, I would note that the king is an NPC known for doing whatever the PCs want, and Tod's player is one of the least active players... And Yuri is Chief diplomat, and I don't think scouting=diplomacy. IC, yes all this should be coming from Tod, but ooc I don't see why another player moving things along so we do not spend another week doing the paper work for the game is a better plan.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:46 pm

Neither of those things were holding up the game, unlike the Popping
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby bob the 6th » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:31 pm

another example of our fearless Chief Warlord not giving the needed single post of affirmation...
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Swodaems » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:54 pm

Nnelg wrote:Updated popping orders:
Spoiler: show
Regular Popping:

Turn 10-11 Tenebris: 16x Imps (Total of 32 Imps.)

Turn 12-13 Tenebris: Bad Ass (One Bad Ass popping over 2 Turns.)

Turn 10-13 Dis City: 2x Archers (Total of 8 Archers.)


Gobwins: (Including the Gobwins that Creeperum's popping in Tenebris...)

Turn 12 Tenebris:
- 1x Garrison Spearman
- 16x Garrison Miners
- 2x Garrison Artisans


Turn 13 Tenebris:
- None


Turn 12 Dis City:
- 2x Garrison Artisans
- 3x Gobwin Artisans
- 1x Gobwin Spearman


Turn 13 Dis City:
- 2x Gobwin Spearman


Since we seem to have reached a decision that no one is arguing with, I'm going to confirm these popping orders for turns 10-13.

I'm sorry if people are feeling I've become a bit of a blockade to getting things done. That's not my intention.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:06 pm

ETheBoyce wrote:Neither of those things were holding up the game, unlike the Popping

Which is why I posted it after the popping orders had been more or less resolved.

And if you have a problem with Nemo being in charge of intelligence, at least, then feel free to say so. (At least it would be thematically appropriate...)
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:18 am

Swodaems wrote:I'm sorry if people are feeling I've become a bit of a blockade to getting things done. That's not my intention.

Well then, could you look over my proposal to start assigning semi-permanent squads? One of its goals is to decentralize the logistics, so that this kind of thing won't happen as often.

Spoiler: show
So, I feel the need to explain in-depth what I meant by "Organizing our Forces into Semi-Permanent Squads".

First off, I need to clarify that this system will by no means decrease our flexibility. In fact we could completely forget about it for any battle and mix and match our Units however we wish if needed. The system I'm proposing is for entirely logistical purposes; the needs of the situation can and will supersede it whenever necessary. In fact, in some ways it should make it easier to maximize the effectiveness of our forces in regards to the mission at hand.

The goal of this system is to:
1.) Ensure that all units have what they need to be effective (so that all Casters have a mount and/or guards, that all Squads have Leadership, etc.)
2.) Ensure all of our units are part of an effective Squad, to reduce the number of underutilized units (thus maximizing efficiency).
3.) Make selecting popping orders easier, and reduce the number of "extraneous" new units (so that we don't waste UP).
4.) Make distributing forces between multiple missions easier (less work to make sure all groups have everything they need to be effective).
5.) Ensure that all Players have an opportunity to affect the game on the large scale (by making PCs Squad Leaders).
6.) Supply additional opportunity for Role-Play (Players can start to personalize 'their' NPC Squad members).
7.) Decentralize the decision-making process (so that if Swodaems takes another break, the rest of us can figure out popping orders easier).
8.) Decrease down-time between battles in general.

And it should be able to do all of that, if everyone is in on it.


Basically, it would go like this:
Suppose we have one Squad assigned made up of Rolf, an NPC w/Leadership on an NK, an Alt Elf w/2 Bodyguards, and a couple extra Warrior Heavies.

The stated purpose of this Squad would be Heavy Infantry. That means it's their job to beat the crap out of enemy infantry in melee. Now, this does not mean that the only thing they will ever do is charge the enemy; to the contrary, more often than not they won't. What they do will be determined entirely by the situation: they may charge, but they may also hold back and let our archery soften up the enemy, or maneuver around the flank, or grab some picks and a Ram to tear down a wall, or whatever Werebiscuit (with the advice of the rest of the group) decides would most help our Side.

Nor is their composition by any means fixed. If we decided that we needed stronger Infantry for one battle, for instance, we could swap out the NPC Leadership with Tod or Yuri. Or if space was tight, we could change out the Leader's NK for a Bodyguard. We could even decide that the Alt Elf was better elsewhere, and change out her and her bodyguards for 3 extra heavies.

Managing this Squad would be both Werebiscuit's privilege and his responsibility. He may organize it how he wishes, but if a unit croaks it becomes up to him to replace it. He would have to requisition a unit from an NPC's Squad, 'borrow' one off another Player, get Vinny to craft a Golem replacement, or convince whomever's in charge of popping units (who has a schedule of his own to keep) to pop a priority replacement.

This may sound to some of you like a lot of work, but really it's just spreading the work that was previously on one person's (Swodaems') shoulders over everyone. The actual work each individual person has to do is quite small; and if you don't want to do even that much, you can always give the authority over your squad to someone else, and let him do the job for you.

Once we get this system up and running, it should speed things along immensely. Organizing units into long-term Squads makes it easy to say "Oh, we have X Squads of Infantry, and Y Squads of Archers." When it becomes more clear what we have, it's easy to see what we don't. ("Oh, we have two squads more of infantry than of archers, so we need more archers.") After it becomes obvious what we're missing, the question of "what do we pop?" becomes "what do we pop first?" Then the discussion becomes much more productive, since there are fewer people arguing to pop things we don't need when there are things that we do.


Of course, we don't have to start doing that now, seeing as we have more pressing matters to attend to. But it should be something that's on the table, in my opinion. (I was thinking of starting up a dedicated thread to discuss it, so that the discussion won't interrupt the game.)
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