Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby the_tick_rules » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:30 am

Man this is one evil hippie. I wonder how the tool will take faq now?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby Aquillion » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:29 am

oslecamo2_temp wrote:Stanley had a bigger understanding of his casters than most other rulers so far. He ordered tri-mancer links to gain massive tactical advantages, saved up big money by recycling his warlords, he even made sure the garrison's poop was used for creating more troops.
It's hard to say how much of that is Wanda's influence, though, since she'd logically let Stanley take credit for everything. Just because she said the Trimancer linkup was his idea doesn't mean that she didn't drop a lot of anvil-sized hints first.

Especially since it'd be to her advantage to get rival casters out of the way so she can manipulate Stanley herself -- Misty was presumably no problem, but Jack and Maggie would have presumably argued against some of her plans.

Hey. That reminds me. I wonder if Misty is alive at the time of this flashback? Has she been popped yet? I guess she wasn't a Faq caster or we'd have seen her already. I do sort of wonder what she was like before she was forced into the trimancer link.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby zbeeblebrox » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:03 am

Jack bowed his head, and made a mock casting gesture. “You have my acts.”

That's such a good line, I kind of wish it had been saved for the actual comic


joosy wrote:Haffaton does not exist at the beginning of Book 1

Wait, it doesn't? I could've sworn the first time we hear about Haffaton is when they provide High Elves to help the alliance against Stanley. Now I have to go look up what I'm misremembering...
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby teratorn » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:46 am

zbeeblebrox wrote:Wait, it doesn't? I could've sworn the first time we hear about Haffaton is when they provide High Elves to help the alliance against Stanley. Now I have to go look up what I'm misremembering...


You're probably thinking of Hobbittm...

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby Eva » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:52 am

Well, we do know that if Marie or Jack turns/"turns", it would be a trap. The opening clearly shows that Marie and Jack know about Olive's using up of casters and the poverty of the side.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby joosy » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:13 am

Shai_hulud wrote: there is evidence to suggest she loves Olive.

Besides, she has to have been getting her flowers (and at this point we can probably assume Jillian too) from somewhere when she is staying at future faq...


Pre-Tommy's death, Wanda loved Olive. Post-Tommy's death - not so much.

I don't believe Wanda is still getting Olive's flowers. Her signamancy changes for the better after Haffaton which I believe indicates that she is no longer under their influence. I would surmise that Wanda continues to wear flowers and puts flowers on her livery as a reminder to herself of these events.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby effataigus » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:53 am

Hmm, many moons ago I conceded the point that "silent orders" as described here (specifically sent from beyond earshot and eyesight) were not supported by the comic despite my vaguely remembering them having occurred... I later became convinced that I was miss-remembering orders by natural allies, which are sent by natural thinkamancy. Weird to see them show up now.

More pertinently, why make a stink about them being used now? Why didn't Banhammer just send a note, as is his wont? He seems the type to get super-excited about designing the wedding invitation with the perfect signamancy. My guess is that it is being established that Banhammer could be directing much more than what Jillian is seeing... Telepathically ordering his casters to put on a show for Olive. I just hope there is a good reason why. I'm trying to figure out what he is trying to do that couldn't be accomplished better, faster, and safer by a more direct approach.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby MonteCristo » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:37 am

Aquillion wrote:Hey. That reminds me. I wonder if Misty is alive at the time of this flashback? Has she been popped yet? I guess she wasn't a Faq caster or we'd have seen her already. I do sort of wonder what she was like before she was forced into the trimancer link.


HIGHLY doubtful. Misty was a lookamancer and Faq already has Orwell.
Though I am now wondering if its possible that Orwell doesn't make it out of this and Faq ends up popping Misty later on... Though I doubt she was a Faq unit as i think it would have been mentioned by now in the comic. Also i don't think even gobwinknob itself has started. I suspect that after haffaton falls, Gobwinknob will be started as a spin off side by one of the nearby royal sides that come in to claim Haffaton's neatural cities.

effataigus wrote:More pertinently, why make a stink about them being used now? Why didn't Banhammer just send a note, as is his wont? He seems the type to get super-excited about designing the wedding invitation with the perfect signamancy. My guess is that it is being established that Banhammer could be directing much more than what Jillian is seeing... Telepathically ordering his casters to put on a show for Olive. I just hope there is a good reason why. I'm trying to figure out what he is trying to do that couldn't be accomplished better, faster, and safer by a more direct approach.


I think its just showing how eager Banhammer is to get this deal done. He did not bother to consult anyone on this deal and he couldn't even wait till dawn. He's so excited about the prospect of Faq continuing through Haffaton that he's rushing through.


multilis wrote:Haffaton does not exist at the beginning of Book 1 and no one knows were Faq is (was) again until Jillian "

Only "most likely" rather than sure.

Just as FAQ wanted to relocate, Haffaton could have relocated far away. If Haffaton was destroyed, Olive could have escaped/retired into corner of magic kingdom, where she has a restaurant.

For all we know, Haffaton and/or Olive could now be hidden puppet of Charlie, perhaps even enslaved using her own flowers as revenge.

(For all we know, Olive could now even be "Charlie", somehow replacing the last one. Extremely unlikely but possible.)


While its possible, i think its HIGHLY unlikely. Olive is the heir and Haffaton has numerous capitol sites; Even if their current capitol fell Olive could continue the side from one of its other capitols. I mean why would olive retire to the magic kingdom when she has all the resources she needs to keep the side running. Haffaton would most likely still be a huge player. Furtharmore, if Olive survived this, i doubt she would ever allow Faq to get away with it; If she did not put an army together herself she would make sure that every nearby side knew Faq existed hoping that one of them would crush them.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby Noigel » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:47 pm

Ok, my predictions:

- Rulers who turn become heirs. Judy is going to die. Olive will try to force Jillian to commit patricide.

We know that Olive is working hard to play "with" Fate but manipulate it to her advantage. She'd have killed Judy a long time ago if she didn't believe Jillian was predestined to kill a Haffaton Ruler. Right now, Judy is acting as a protective buffer to shield Olive (who wants to be Ruler) from Jillian but we know Judy's mind and body are failing and she's going to die soon. Olive will push Judy over the edge and make Banhammer the next "buffer" from Fate and Jillian's blade.

- Wanda isn't done taking the extra hard road. To save Jillian from patricide and because of her own love/grief for her own father, Wanda will kill Hammer.

Wanda is going to betray Fate again. Olive takes Judy out of the picture and Wanda takes Olive out with the shoes in a climatic showdown... "I can't attack you because of Chillaxe and faction loyalty but I can teleport your patchouli ass to Kansas..." Jillian is left to kill her Father to fulfill the prediction in agony. Right as she's about to drop the Hammer, Wanda will intercede and do it for her. Haffaton is ended, units become FAQ because Jillian is heir. Stanley recounts a de-croaked Banhammer coming out of FAQ... that's not prophecy, that's Stanley's POV. Who is to say that Wanda doesn't stage the entire coup of FAQ because Banhammer's been croaked for so long that he's falling apart and the side is failing. All the croaked Banhammer is good for is one last ruse to move Wanda closer to another objective.

- Jillian and Wanda are going to take solace in each other in the aftermath... boww-chicka-wow-wow.

Jillian understands why Wanda did it, as an act of mercy. Still, they now share common tragedies. They stay and watch FAQ fall apart for awhile as Fate takes bites out of it until it's too much and they part ways. Queue Book 1.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby name lips » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:49 pm

effataigus wrote:More pertinently, why make a stink about them being used now? Why didn't Banhammer just send a note, as is his wont? He seems the type to get super-excited about designing the wedding invitation with the perfect signamancy. My guess is that it is being established that Banhammer could be directing much more than what Jillian is seeing... Telepathically ordering his casters to put on a show for Olive. I just hope there is a good reason why. I'm trying to figure out what he is trying to do that couldn't be accomplished better, faster, and safer by a more direct approach.

This is possible.

But for some reason, he is finding it important to keep Jillian (and perhaps even the casters themselves) ignorant of this plan, controlling it ALL via silent orders. It's possible the King and the Turning are all Foolamancy. (He could be Veiled off to the side -- the man behind the curtain. Don't forget what room we're in. :D)

This would be an excellent way of luring Olive into a trap. Once she thinks she has won, she will reveal her true colors, and possibly let down her guard.

It's possible this was the plan from the beginning, and all of Banhammer's orders about staying silent have been to keep Jillian from blurting something out that would ruin it, and that all of his "private meetings" with Olive were just to lure her into the trap.

We have seen nothing that hinted that Banhammer is capable of such duplicity, and Jillian certainly doesn't think he is capable of it. But Banhammer has been around for quite a while, and for all we know he might actually be able to play the fool.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby bladestorm » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:50 pm

multilis wrote:(For all we know, Olive could now even be "Charlie", somehow replacing the last one. Extremely unlikely but possible.)

Would this make "Charlie" a position rather than an entity? A similar concept went around about how 007 was a position and that James Bond was not a single person. One agent gets retired, and the next assumes the mantle as legacy.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby name lips » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:52 pm

bladestorm wrote:
multilis wrote:(For all we know, Olive could now even be "Charlie", somehow replacing the last one. Extremely unlikely but possible.)

Would this make "Charlie" a position rather than an entity? A similar concept went around about how 007 was a position and that James Bond was not a single person. One agent gets retired, and the next assumes the mantle as legacy.

We've had a pretty overt hint that Charlie used to Rule Effbaum, long long ago, and has since moved on.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby bladestorm » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:12 pm

zbeeblebrox wrote:
Jack bowed his head, and made a mock casting gesture. “You have my acts.”

That's such a good line, I kind of wish it had been saved for the actual comic


joosy wrote:Haffaton does not exist at the beginning of Book 1

Wait, it doesn't? I could've sworn the first time we hear about Haffaton is when they provide High Elves to help the alliance against Stanley. Now I have to go look up what I'm misremembering...

According to page 86 of Book 1, RCC had Woodsy, Shady, Luckless, Eager, Schlemiel, Lofty, Superfluous, and Altruist. On pages 21 and 22, Ansom addresses the eight different varieties in the company. No mention of High Elves.

That would be an extremely interesting twist for book 3, though. If Olive had survived all this time, but Haffaton was reduced down to 10-15 cities, that would be much easier to support. Not only would live be a higher level (presumably), but she'd have different forces to work with. What if she had a croakamancer to replace Wanda? Or a dirtamancer? Combined with Hippiemancy, that dirtmancer could be making a surplus of crops. Parson's lateral thinking vs Olive's ages of experience, Wanda with a HUGE vendetta... even Jillian might be able to make peace with GK long enough to bring down Olive and her field of hero buds. That would get really messy really qiuckly. Unlikely to happen, since Book 3 if probably already started to some degree, but something nasty to speculate upon.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby Shai_hulud » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:18 pm

joosy wrote:Pre-Tommy's death, Wanda loved Olive. Post-Tommy's death - not so much.
Why not? It's not like she blames Olive for Tommy's death.
And there was that whole weird conversation above space rock that people speculated had a deeper meaning, just like the "Prisoner is alert?" scenario.

joosy wrote:I don't believe Wanda is still getting Olive's flowers. Her signamancy changes for the better after Haffaton which I believe indicates that she is no longer under their influence. I would surmise that Wanda continues to wear flowers and puts flowers on her livery as a reminder to herself of these events.
She can't be without their influence as far as we know. They're an addictive substance.
Parson wrote:Do you have a headache spell?

Wanda wrote:Yes! Or... To cure one? No. If I had that, I would never stop casting it.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby Morni » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:12 pm

effataigus wrote:Hmm, many moons ago I conceded the point that "silent orders" as described here (specifically sent from beyond earshot and eyesight) were not supported by the comic despite my vaguely remembering them having occurred... I later became convinced that I was miss-remembering orders by natural allies, which are sent by natural thinkamancy. Weird to see them show up now.


They've been mentionned before.

source:
http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... Banana.jpg

"Speaking or shouting the command will work, Lord," said Maggie, lurching a bit as she rounded the remains of the picnic and walked up beside him. Though he was not completely steady himself, he offered his right elbow and she grabbed it gratefully. "Not be- because they understand Language, but because it hhhelps you frame the intent in your mind. You see. Experienced-" she swallowed hard, or possibly hiccupped. "Excuse me. Experienced commanders can command stacks with few or no words. When you understand your command, the unit will. Yet another fo-horm of natural Thinkamancy, Lord."
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby effataigus » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:30 pm

name lips wrote:This would be an excellent way of luring Olive into a trap. Once she thinks she has won, she will reveal her true colors, and possibly let down her guard.
Good point. Perhaps the point of the subterfuge (if any is even happening) is to trick Olive into thinking it's safe to do something that will justify Banhammer taking the deplorable low road... as opposed to enabling him to do so as I was assuming.
Morni wrote:They've been mentionned before.

source:
http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... Banana.jpg
Yar, tis an example of a silent order, but not one where the unit being ordered could neither see nor hear the order-er... which was the heart of the discussion of that time. The discussion was related to Parson's decision to go to Spacerock as opposed to issuing orders from afar, through Stanley if necessary... we were trying to figure out if it was even possible for Parson to direct the battle from GK after Maggie's juice ran out. This silent order isn't exactly the same as what would be needed for that to happen, as these units are in the same hex. However, we know that Stanley's natural thinkamancy does extend to all of his units in some capacity regardless of hex from that update where he was thinking about the crazy stuff going on in Spacerock.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby Amado » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:55 pm

effataigus wrote:
name lips wrote:This would be an excellent way of luring Olive into a trap. Once she thinks she has won, she will reveal her true colors, and possibly let down her guard.
Good point. Perhaps the point of the subterfuge (if any is even happening) is to trick Olive into thinking it's safe to do something that will justify Banhammer taking the deplorable low road... as opposed to enabling him to do so as I was assuming.


(+1) to "Good point." Whether thru subterfuge or just letting events unfold this way on purpose, Banhammer may want to set up events such that Olive doesn't want to play the Chillaxe at the start of the turn.

* Orwell and a few other casters turn.
* Olive figures she has the advantage; starts turn.
* Olive orders newly-turned casters to engage Banhammer, to croak.
* Counter-engagements are now possible; Olive is killed in the melee.
* Banhammer survives the encounter.

That may be Banhammer's play.

Of course, other juicy stuff will be in there as well, so as to fulfill some of the prophecies and satisfy some of the foreshadowing.

Not sure I'm going to call this a "prediction." (It's too vague, for starters.) But it's a guess.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby MonteCristo » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:01 pm

Amado wrote:
effataigus wrote:
name lips wrote:This would be an excellent way of luring Olive into a trap. Once she thinks she has won, she will reveal her true colors, and possibly let down her guard.
Good point. Perhaps the point of the subterfuge (if any is even happening) is to trick Olive into thinking it's safe to do something that will justify Banhammer taking the deplorable low road... as opposed to enabling him to do so as I was assuming.


(+1) to "Good point." Whether thru subterfuge or just letting events unfold this way on purpose, Banhammer may want to set up events such that Olive doesn't want to play the Chillaxe at the start of the turn.

* Orwell and a few other casters turn.
* Olive figures she has the advantage; starts turn.
* Olive orders newly-turned casters to engage Banhammer, to croak.
* Counter-engagements are now possible; Olive is killed in the melee.
* Banhammer survives the encounter.

That may be Banhammer's play.

Of course, other juicy stuff will be in there as well, so as to fulfill some of the prophecies and satisfy some of the foreshadowing.

Not sure I'm going to call this a "prediction." (It's too vague, for starters.) But it's a guess.


That would not work because Olive doesn't need to directly croak banhammer with her current plan... If he turns then he is at her mercy; she can simply have him disbanded. Heck considering how Olive operates, she would mostly try to keep the casters in her good favor by not letting them know she had banhammer disbanded... have an excuse to send banhammer(and any casters she feels haffaton does not have the smuckers to support) into the field, such as sending him on a diplomatic mission to one of the other sides, then disband him while he's in the field and tell the casters that bahammer was croaked by the enemy side. Afterall the casters may be duty bound to follow olive but loyalty is another factor and she will want to keep their loyalty high by manipulating them. Olive is not quick to drop her ruse; frankly it could be a good many turns before the court casters figure out Olive's true colors.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby bladestorm » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:43 pm

Using a former king as a chief warlord could have a huge effect for Haffaton. Banhammer may be a pacifist king, but he obviously excels at diplomacy, and his bonus applies, at least partially) to the entire Side. He might not engage in combat with his stack, but he can be in the same hex chastising the opponent on a lack of protocol while the troops in tat hex mow down the opponent. Orhe can spew forth his Peaceful Path drivel and convince them to join Haffaton willingly, or at least pay some steep tribute to the Side (and when they cannot afford the tribute, they will be weak enough to easily conquer). So either through his raw bonuses, or through his diplomacy, he'd be a HUGE asset to a side. The prophecy they thought they had about Jillian being their CWL may have only stated that they'd have a Banhammer as a CWL. Making Jillian into the CWL would be the VHW, but having King Banhammer fall into their lap looks very much like the EW.

Haffaton gets a really good CWL with new options as to how to take over other Sides. Banhammer gets to preserve his philosophy and the existence of his casters while getting a fresh new audience for his teachings (I imagine being a bubble kingdom is gonna kill your publishing ventures) as well as a safe haven within the mighty Haffaton to continue practicing his teaching. His teachings may even be altered, so that his next book talks about tempering justice with mercy while striking down your enemies, or how to win a battle politely. He wasn't always such a pacifist, and he may have just needed a but of an ego stroking and a testosterone boost to push him back into his more assertive role.

There's a great deal to be gained from this merger, even without subterfuge.

And an even better way to dispense with Jillian. She's always been a source of conflict within Faq. Now she's trying to paint the altruistic Olive as such an evil woman with her fanciful tales of poisoned traps, dangerous flowers, and oh so many other bad things. *snuggle up to Banhammer* *fake cry*
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 060

Postby Project_mars » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:17 pm

Aquillion wrote:
oslecamo2_temp wrote:Stanley had a bigger understanding of his casters than most other rulers so far. He ordered tri-mancer links to gain massive tactical advantages, saved up big money by recycling his warlords, he even made sure the garrison's poop was used for creating more troops.
It's hard to say how much of that is Wanda's influence, though, since she'd logically let Stanley take credit for everything. Just because she said the Trimancer linkup was his idea doesn't mean that she didn't drop a lot of anvil-sized hints first.

Especially since it'd be to her advantage to get rival casters out of the way so she can manipulate Stanley herself -- Misty was presumably no problem, but Jack and Maggie would have presumably argued against some of her plans.

Hey. That reminds me. I wonder if Misty is alive at the time of this flashback? Has she been popped yet? I guess she wasn't a Faq caster or we'd have seen her already. I do sort of wonder what she was like before she was forced into the trimancer link.


Except she was talking to parson when she said that it was "the most shrewd thing she's seen him do." Which indicates that he was the one to come up with the idea. He may have checked with Wanda to see if his idea could be done, but there isnt any indication that he didnt come up with the idea in the first place.

Also: the idea that banhammer will become heir due to being royal is a good idea, since we don't know a ton on how that works. However if it does work that way then Olive would probably know about it and would be against the idea. So who knows how common the knowledge of the royal/heir system workings is.

However given that he does consult with Marie quite a bit, i dont see banhammer beint ignorant to the type of person that Olive is, and may have told the two to not turn if asked by him. This would potentially lead to his balking until the court arrives and convincing Olive to not use the chillaxe. Then he turns with Jack using foolamancy to have someone disguised to convince Judy to name him heir, before Jillian croaks her. With him on the throne he then gets rid of Olive, cleans up Haffaton, gets a new croakamancer, and then goes home to later be killed by stanley... Which would probably be a result of taking the hard way to his fate. ...which would mean that the titans are actually rooting for Haffaton, or something akin to it. Huh.
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