Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby 0beron » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:57 am

vintermann wrote:a lookamancer is part of the trio of casters Faq needs to stay hidden.

Not necessarily. All that they NEED is Marie and Jack. In the absence of Orwell, they would just require a better scout network in the mountains surrounding FAQ.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby joosy » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:10 am

Vanvidum wrote:Anyone else notice Judy's use of the word 'kill' rather than 'croak'? She sounded sober and aware here, so I wonder if the shoes have any impact on the effects of the flowers.

It is the second time she has used it. The first time it was used, Jillian noted how odd the word was.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby joosy » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:11 am

link87 wrote:My question is that why has jack or Lady F. never told Parson what the final Ark item was when this proves that they have seen it?

Perhaps they did, but it hasn't revealed it to us, the readers, via a Parson Klog update or flashback as that would be a big spoiler.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby joosy » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:14 am

slayn82 wrote:I'm not fully convinced that it's the Arkenshoes power that is giving life to the Golems here, althought its very reasonable.

Wanda has been dabbling in Dollamancy (motion + fate), who is similar to crookamancy (motion+matter+fate), what if she is animating the Golems, making a senile Judy believe they returned to life and giving her motivation to get the red slippers from their hidding place and confront Olive?

The golems were never inanimate. When Maxwell was alive the golems had life, they had upkeep and independent thought. When he died they went back to just being mindless golems. Apparently the lion sacrificed itself for Judy which is why it is not present.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby Guppy » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:16 am

vintermann wrote:Parson: What about this fourth known Arkentool that the stupid meal mentions?
Wanda: It's gone from Erf forever.
Parson: Are you sure? How do you know?
Wanda: ... I just know.


Well, Jack was also a witness to the Arkenshoes, and we know Parson chats with him. Jillian and Marie witnessed it as well, so I assume the existence of the Arkenshoes is not a secret, as well as any power they exhibited at this event.

But for all we know, this scene could even be a Foolamantic illusion and Judy might not actually be wearing them (or present at the scene at all). Do we even know if that was really Brother Orwell that turned? Dame Branch isn't a Warlord, so I assume she wouldn't have the natural thinkamancy that would connect her to their side's new subordinate unit (but Judy would).

At any rate, it would seem that the Arkenshoes did something that allowed Haffaton to expand the way it has. Cities conquered and run by intelligent and autonomous non-living units would go a long way to explaining how they did it.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby doran » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:22 am

If the shoes ARE Retconjuration aligned, maybe they are going to retconjure themselves out of existence upon the wish home part, explaining the known bit in the Happy Meal.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby Frostbeard » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:48 am

So we know that when a ruler Turns, his warlords and casters become barbarians. Do you think it's possible for a ruler to abdicate, making their heir the new ruler, and THEN turn? Judy's clearly in control of her faculties now. My thought was that she would allow Wanda to turn, then abdicate and possibly turn herself, allowing Jillian to fulfill her Fate on Olive. We know, though, that the Arkenshoes leave Erf forever at some point, so maybe she just clicks her heels and disappears, making Olive ruler by default in that way? Inneressin' stuff...
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby joosy » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:50 am

Eva wrote:Another reason to suspect it gives travel power is because Banhammer just said Olive said it would be too far to travel to Judy (an obvious lie).

If the shoes are anything like their 'counterpart' from the Wizard of Oz stories, instantaneous travel is the only power they exhibited (at least in the books). Now, the shoes from the original Wizard of Oz were silver, but were changed in the movie to ruby red as they stood out more. In the various movies/TV shows/mini series/stage adaptations, the shoes helped cripple people walk, protected the user from harm, and, of course, transported the wearer between worlds.

I am assuming that the shoes have Dollamancy powers much like the Pliers have Croakamancy and the Dish has Thinkamancy and the Hammer may have Carnymancy. From what we see from Ace, Dollamancy items can have some weirdomancy attributes (giving specials like flight, shockamancy, etc.) to the wearer. If I had to guess at a game breaking feature for them it would be he ability to move the wearer (and maybe their stack) any distance at any time (off turn, night, etc.)

There is also the question of either Maxwell or Judy have attuned to the Shoes. Currently the question in Erfworld is 'can an attuned wielder be croaked?" Charlie has that as a goal in order to stop the spread of Toolism. However, Wanda tried to croak Stanley by luring him to Faq. Was that done out of the knowledge that an attuned wielder CAN be croaked or was it merely an attempt to expedite her Fate?

My guess is that neither have attuned to the shoes, but that they do afford some Dollamancy powers to all users (much like how the Pliers affected croaked units). OR perhaps Judy IS attuned and will use them to depart Erfworld with the plan to return after Wanda has brought together the remaining three. In any case,I believe Olive was hiding the shoes from Judy as wearing them gives her some added power that Olive cannot overcome. I believe that the spell Wanda was going to cast in the tower was a Findamancy spell (which is why she needed all the details about them back in update 56). Wanda was probably able to perform the spell and get Judy in place perhaps with the knowledge of some Predictamancy from Marie.

So.. Hammer - massive attack power(or some other attribute that Stanley has not found), the Pliers (cheap units), the Dish (unlimited communication), and the Shoes (unlimited movement). I wonder if there are more Arkentools out there for the rest of the Fate aligned magic schools. Perhaps the ArkenCrystal Ball for unmatched Predictamancy? :)
Last edited by joosy on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby Zeromedeiros » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:50 am

There I go with some HEAVY speculation:

What if the Arkentools powers basically adds two(or more) axis together?
Whe know the dish works on the Eyemancy class(life+motion)
The pliers are a Naughtymancy tool (motion+matter)
The hammer is probably Stagemancy (life+motion+matter)...since the carny portion, and being able to rock out! (taking birds from nuts could be hat magic)

So, all that's left is Hippiemancy(life+matter)....wich explains the peace minded Haffaton, wich puts a Hippiemanceras it's heir.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby Kreistor » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:57 am

youngstormlord wrote:So...

Arkendish gives unmatched Thinkamancy. Pliers give unmatched Croakamancy. Hammer probably gives unmatched Carnimancy (flashy, looks like toy, turns pigeons to walnuts and vice versa, basic Shockamancy etc). My guess is that shoes either give unmatched Findamancy (not Lookamancy, but Findamancy, summoning and traveling magic) or Dirtamancy ('my boots are made for walking and that is what they do', and they'll walk all over your flowers). We shall see.


Sorry, no. That was an old argument, but ended when the Tool listed the properties and their schools. The only property which is Carnymancy is the flash with the lightning. The lightning is shockamancy. Walnuts to birds is Changamancy. And so on. It has never been stated to provide unmatched "carnymancy", esopecially since we now have a definition for Carnymancy. Carnymancy is the magic of fooling people, and Stanley fooled no one. There was once the belief that it allowed the Caster to do anything associated with Carnivals, but that has been defeated, and frankly, was obviously false because it would let Carnymancers do pretty much absolutely everything, from item creation to direct electrical attacks and mind control to magical disguises. It could never have been that open ended. It is the magic of Trickery, and the Arkenhammer is as far from Tricky as you can get. It is a blunt object.

The Pliers made Wanda better at what she already did. She has experimented with it no further than the Decrypted, unlike Stanley. She has no interest in other schools, and so no interest in its other functions. We cannot conclude that confers "unmatched" anything, only makes her better at what she already does. If it attuned to Jack, it might make him the best Foolamancer ever.

There is unsupported speculation that Charlie is a Thinkamancer, now that we know Casters can Rule. WE may never know what Charliee was or is, and so while he has unmatched Thinkamancy, we do not know for certain if it is comferred by the tool or amplified by the tool. There are no experts that can tell us about Charlie. The Archons, closest to him of all knowledgeable sources, can not answer the question "What does the Arkendish do?"

In short, it is impossible to draw parallels in their functions at this point.
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AS for this strip, well, is Wanda the Lion and Jillian Toto? Wanda seems to have no courage, and Jillian is barking.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby Kaigen » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:07 pm

joosy wrote:There is also the question of either Maxwell or Judy have attuned to the Shoes. Currently the question in Erfworld is 'can an attuned wielder be croaked?" Charlie has that as a goal in order to stop the spread of Toolism. However, Wanda tried to croak Stanley by luring him to Faq. Was that done out of the knowledge that an attuned wielder CAN be croaked or was it merely an attempt to expedite her Fate?

I suspect that "can an attuned wielder be croaked?" has only become an important question since the rise of Toolism. Prior to the rise of this notion that the Attuned are part of this new world order, there probably wasn't any real reason to think that an Attuned might be unstoppable. So the short answer would be: Wanda didn't know whether an attuned wielder could be croaked, but had no reason to believe they couldn't. Also, we don't necessarily know if Judy is actually attuned to the Arkenshoes. She might be using them for some relatively minor special trait, like Ansom wielding the Pliers as a weapon.

If she IS attuned, though, then we need to keep three questions in mind: One, can an attuned wielder be croaked? Two, is there more than one potential attuned wielder of an Arkentool (i.e. can they be transferred to a new user)? And three, of the people who were in that room who are still alive, what reasons might they have for keeping quiet about what happened?
Last edited by Kaigen on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby effataigus » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:07 pm

Kreistor wrote:In short, it is fun to speculate about parallels in their functions at this point.
Fixed that for you.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby Jorgath » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:13 pm

Rob, I want to congratulate you.

The last line made me GASP. Out loud! HOLY CRAP.
"It matters not how strait the gait,
how charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul."
--William Ernest Henley, Invictus

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby youngstormlord » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:14 pm

Actually, Carnimancy is magic of rigging the game. Taking and giving specials when it would suit them. Example given was taking the flying special from flying unit, making it tumble from sky and croak from falling damage. Turning flying units to walnuts accomplishes that. And every single caster can cast basic shockamancy, including archons with shockamancy special.

In book 1, we have seen that pliers are especially good against uncroaked, one-hitting them and turning them to dust, so there's that.

But, the real question I wanted to ask is this: What's with Overlords calling their underlings kid? There's no children in Erfworld.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby Jorgath » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:21 pm

"Kid" could also mean "inexperienced unit" or just "you just asked a stupid question." Also, Judy's from Stupidworld, remember?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby youngstormlord » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:25 pm

Jorgath wrote:"Kid" could also mean "inexperienced unit" or just "you just asked a stupid question." Also, Judy's from Stupidworld, remember?


I remember. But Stanley used it in the sentence at page 6 or 7 about Wanda, if I remember it correctly. 'Kid's got some talent too' (in turnamancy) or something like that.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby junovalkyrie » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:27 pm

youngstormlord wrote:Actually, Carnimancy is magic of rigging the game. Taking and giving specials when it would suit them. Example given was taking the flying special from flying unit, making it tumble from sky and croak from falling damage.


That was weirdomancy:

Weirdomancers can cancel a flyer's special to make it fall (or make a non-flyer fly, then dispel it and cause a fall).
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby youngstormlord » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:34 pm

junovalkyrie wrote:
youngstormlord wrote:Actually, Carnimancy is magic of rigging the game. Taking and giving specials when it would suit them. Example given was taking the flying special from flying unit, making it tumble from sky and croak from falling damage.


That was weirdomancy:

Weirdomancers can cancel a flyer's special to make it fall (or make a non-flyer fly, then dispel it and cause a fall).


My bad. :(. Did we actually see any weirdomancer so far? Or is weirdomancy acually one of 9 schools of magic, which among its disciplines includes carnimancy? I'm afraid I don't remember.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby John Campbell » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:58 pm

Some ruby slippers would go nicely with Jill's Columbia outfit.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 061

Postby name lips » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:24 pm

At this point, Judy is lucid and confronting Olive.

She is the Ruler. There is no reason she can't just disband Olive with a thought, or command her to do whatever she wants.

I wonder, as far as Duty is concerned, what happens if an Heir is absolutely convinced that the Ruler is leading the side to destruction. Would it be their Duty to croak or incapacitate the Ruler, so that they could take their place? Do units feel Duty to the Ruler, or to the Side?
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