Summer Updates - 032

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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby mhangman » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:31 am

dont try this on archons... he cant ride them too he must be 200kg or more? omg a dwagon cant hold him oww
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby Hari Seldon » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:04 pm

Muahahah ... Parson got Banana to take an action AFTER THE TURN HAD ENDED! Only Homeworld is (the original) truly 3D RTS, not Erfworld!

Well that's not a big deal so long as you're in your city where movement is free, but Parson actually sent Banana AWAY from the city and through hexes ... that's supposed to be impossible (when Maggie in Book 1 says attacking at night is impossible)! They had been camping at one of the Gate Towers, Parson was trying to test if he could cross Hex Boundaries on a mount and that could only be done flying away from the city through the hexes, and also the guest art for Summer Update 032 shows a catapult pointed the direction Parson is going - away from the city. The nearby pikemen coming to help is a little ambiguous because they might have been in the same hex it didn't say.

So this ... may be Spookism (magical axis Erf: Turnamancy). Of course, warlords can already end turns (ex: Prince Ansom) so ... maybe they have natural turnamancy???

And Parson's overcoming the cursing barrier was definitely Thinkamancy (though for a Warlord that makes sense because this Update 032 says that commanding a stack involves natural thinkamancy).

Not to mention the Luckamancy Charms.

Parson may be Special because of his comment that What he (Sizemore) told me (about magic) sounds a lot like that crap about the four basic elements that people believed for centuries just because Aristotle said it. Parson might be more awesome than simple Multi-Classing, since Wanda can already Multi-Class (be a master-level Croakamancer as well as dabble in at least Findamancy and Thinkamancy).

What do I mean by that? I mean Parson being a Player in a turn-based strategy game is like James Eckert (with his Medieval History degree) in Gordon R. Dickson's fantasy medieval England :geek:.

And no the lack of Turns Since TBfGK was not intentional because what it really means is how many days has it been since TBfGK. That's why before Stanley's turn ended a few strips back, Stanley's turn was 3, and after Stanley's turn ended the turns since TBfGK was still 3.
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby Tiger » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:18 pm

zz_tophat wrote:
Hatu wrote:Interesting development. Poor dwagon.

I notice we're missing the "Turns since tBfGK" counter. Is that no longer needed, or was it an unintentional omission?

-H


Better question: why are they still called "summer" updates? (This posted while I literally watch the leaves change color).

Fall Equinox isn't until the 22nd, so it's still summer.
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby Simons Mith » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:49 pm

The yellow dwagon's expression is pure comedy gold. Props to the artist; well done, Eugene, weherever you are.
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby name lips » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:54 pm

This would have been an interesting surprise for Charlie, had Parson actually gotten in that net during the battle...


:D



As is, I forsee a far-distant plot development when he makes peace (damn hippy) with the Magic Kingdom, and realizes he can move wherever he wants via Portal Park.
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby balder » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:55 pm

Hari Seldon wrote: the guest art for Summer Update 032 shows a catapult pointed the direction Parson is going - away from the city.


This is absolutely the single most frustrating thing about having guest artists. I noticed this detail when I got the art. It is wrong; Parson and Banana fell on the inner side of the wall and did not leave the city. There was not time to have Eugene correct it. I knew someone was going to fixate on it, too.

It's ridiculously hard to keep a complex fictional world organized and present it in a totally consistent form. Every single guest artist except Onezumi has made a similar error in detail of some kind. A lot of them were serious enough that I held back the post until it was corrected. I have seen, so far:

Update 22 (hasn't posted yet): The artist put a Jetstone royal radish on the wall of Gobwin Knob.
Update 23: Elddonnamar originally had a Gobwin chef standing in the doorway, but I have not said that there are still any Gobwins in the city. Book 1 says none survived the volcano.
Update 24: Originally, Sizemore did not carry the wineskin. Alisa gave me this corrected version, in which it is there but does not have a shoulder strap.
Update 25: The shadows are reversed from how the text says they are, which is important because of the time, the city's orientation, and the later discussion of shadows and the movement of the sun. Alisa offered to redo it, but I wanted to post.
Update 27: The impact was much more painful-looking than I intended, leading to a fairly pointless forum discussion about whether the previously-described cushioning effect applied to Parson. The cartoon basket physics was also discussed in reactions. Pat Jacobs chose to make the blanket checkered when I referred to it as gray in a later update. This was not his fault since he couldn't have read that update, but I changed the text to make it a checkered blanket, which caused a disconnect with Rykka who made it gray.
Update 28: Rykka originally intended this platform to be the top of the tower, but a Retconjuration made it a landing on the way up to the tower top. I am still not sure where on the tower's exterior that would go. She also forgot the wineskin, and put it back in on correction.
Update 29: Joe originally made Parson look absolutely livid with Sizemore. I bounced it back and asked for less-angry, more-WTF. Also the picnic has already been packed up for some reason, and I don't see the (apparently quantum) wineskin.
Update 30: Required substantial revision, because that sun was originally a moon and stars. Nathan interpreted end of turn to be end of day, which was just...too wrong to let stand.
Update 31: Chris' sketches had some weird object in Sizemore's hand, which I asked him to change to a cheese wedge wrapped in paper when he inked.

I am not listing these things to complain. All the artists are wonderful and I thank you all SOOOO much! I'm posting this because I want all the artists and the readers to understand how hard it is for ANYONE to draw for Erfworld. The readers are standing by to seize on any small detail as critically important, as Hari Seldon shows here (and Hari, I am not complaining about you, either...also your forum name is awesome). To pull off a universe this complex, I have to keep every single detail straight in my head. The artists are just not going to be able to do that, and I don't expect them to.

So just please understand, everyone. The text of Summer Updates is canon, but the guest art is not. The artists are contributing their time, talents, work, and imagination. Celebrate them for it, but please kinda put away the magnifying glasses and the Sherlock Holmes hats on the art until Book 2 commences. I am trying to make sure the guest illustrations fit, but I also want to keep the updates coming. If you knew how much work I am facing right now, you too would leave a pile of acidic battlecrap on the pavement. I know I have.
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby Itzal » Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:09 pm

heh another potentally awesome warcry. 2,000 warriors bearing down on you yelling "I LEARNED SOMETHING TODAY, WANNA SEE?!?!?!?!?" If I was the chief warlord of the other side I'd be like, "You know what, I'm out. No city's worth that."
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby HandofShadows » Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:31 pm

GREAT illistration. Totaly captures it. :mrgreen: I think the Archon is "filming" for Wanda, not Stanley. She would have enough forsight to tell them to keep an eye on Parson while she is gone. AndI don't think Stanely trusts the archons (or any Dycrypted unit) all that much yet.
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby Drifter » Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:01 pm

...Ok, I stand corrected. He did get his leg over the dwagon (on the third attempt, at least).

Funny and strangely satisfactory conclusion to this update story arc. Parson got to mount a dwagon - every gamers dream, I'm certain, and continued his exploration of his own limitations. And boy, did his discover his limitations! I hope he remembers it all, next turn.

The hummingbird effect of the wings and the grimace of strain on Banana's face made this scene priceless. Well done, Conniff.

The little tease about Ansom and Wanda headed for Warchalking was nice. Do we see the first act of Book 2 in the making?

LordDarksea wrote:There's a part of me that's wondering if the Archon's filming isn't part of a residual order left behind from Charlie. Could it be possible that decrypting wouldn't override that compulsion, unless Wanda, Stanley, Ansom or Parson actively tells them not to transmit these things?

I can't really see it happening, because of how decrypting totally re-wrote Ansom's perspective. It seems that the Archon's would be similarly re-written, but if its implanted into their minds that transmitting such information is a) what they do and b) not a betrayal of their side then i guess it could be possible.

Taking into account that they are the specialist units of the Arkendish (is that canon? or am I just assuming/inferring it?), it may be that feeding back everything of importance to the Arkendish is integral to their nature regardless of who their loyalty is to, and if somebody just happens to be attuned to the Arkendish then they get that info.

Wild speculation, probably well off base, but it just seems to me a possibility.


I wonder if the Archon is just displaying a bit of free will when she "films" Parsons experiment. Archons have certainly shown plenty of it in the past. But, I am curious if Charlie is able to tap into her thinkagram; 'could make for some embarrassing eyebook chats.
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby cloudbreaker » Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:11 pm

balder wrote:Update 23: Elddonnamar originally had a Gobwin chef standing in the doorway, but I have not said that there are still any Gobwins in the city. Book 1 says none survived the volcano.

I have noticed that we have seen at least one decrypted gobwin, so would that mean they are different from regular gobwins as far as their duties go? Or am I just reading too much into it?

But I would be afraid to eat food made by a gobwin chef anyway. :P
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby Slowness » Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:44 pm

Dwagons can still walk though right? Might be humiliating for the Dwagon, but parson might be able to take the short bus and ride around on a walking Banana. Still not sure how "capturing" Parson would work, either, like the Archons tried to do much earlier in the series. I mean, if they got the net they were all carrying around him, managed to drag him halfway to where they were going, and then got intercepted and killed by forces friendly to Parson, would Parson be stuck in a hex in the middle of nowhere?

EDIT: Huh, coulda sworn I saw a panel with some Archons lurking around with a net somewhere... Can't find it, maybe my mind is playing tricks on me...
Last edited by Slowness on Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby random_guy » Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:55 pm

Since warlords command through natural thinkamancy, it seems like it is possible for non-humanoids to be warlords. I wonder if there are any other considerations that would have prevented Stanley from promoting dwagons to warlords.
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby zbeeblebrox » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:20 pm

Hi! I'm Eugene. Thanks for the props guys!

balder wrote:I noticed this detail when I got the art. It is wrong; Parson and Banana fell on the inner side of the wall and did not leave the city. There was not time to have Eugene correct it. I knew someone was going to fixate on it, too.

It's true, I actually put that pult in at the last minute when I suddenly remembered that Parson had been near one in a previous scene, except the only thing I could remember about them was that they had angry counterweights. So I drew that without realizing it puts the catapult facing in instead of out. Doh!

On the bright side, I remembered which side the big stain splotch was painted onto Parson's armor! That was a total guess! :D
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby Slowness » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:23 pm

random_guy wrote:Since warlords command through natural thinkamancy, it seems like it is possible for non-humanoids to be warlords. I wonder if there are any other considerations that would have prevented Stanley from promoting dwagons to warlords.


Caligula is said to have tried to appoint his horse, Incitatus, as a consul and a priest in order to thumb his nose at the senate. Though later historians changed the portrayal from being a dick who flaunted his power, to being insane. If society and/or government in real life gets screwed up enough for this to happen, sure, why not? Probably wouldn't be the most difficult ruler to depose though... Or even set up as a puppet government figurehead!

Person A: "The mighty dragon ruler who our... Slightly insane previous ruler left in charge only speaks to me!"

Person B: "Lies! He orders people to feed him once in a while with natural thinkamancy, you know, when he isn't sleeping..."

Person A: "Well, does he tell you to do anything else?"

Person B: "Well, uh, no..."

Person A: "There we go then! That means I'm in charge of everything else!"
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby Drifter » Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:09 pm

random_guy wrote:Since warlords command through natural thinkamancy, it seems like it is possible for non-humanoids to be warlords. I wonder if there are any other considerations that would have prevented Stanley from promoting dwagons to warlords.


Per my post for the previous update, ( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=509#p9204 ) I really doubt there can be beast/mount warlords.

'gotta remember, Erfworld is a narrative story, and as such, the principal and supporting characters (who tend to be warlords or casters) will need to be identifiable to the readers. IE: we must be able to identify/empathize with the characters. They will have to be able to speak and maintain a worldview of a walking, talking person.

Now, the story may call for gobwin or marbit warlords, but they've both shown enough personality throughout Book 1 that they also fit this criteria. (Remember the gobwin scout's alarm at finding Webinar's stack on pg. 109? That's something we, as readers, can certainly understand and internalize.)

Personally, I have nothing against dwa, er, dragons or other beasts being sentient and/or intelligent as men/elves/other humanoids. I just don't believe they would fit within the framework of the narrative of Erfworld.
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby Spot » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:51 pm

Drifter wrote:
random_guy wrote:Since warlords command through natural thinkamancy, it seems like it is possible for non-humanoids to be warlords. I wonder if there are any other considerations that would have prevented Stanley from promoting dwagons to warlords.


Per my post for the previous update, ( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=509#p9204 ) I really doubt there can be beast/mount warlords.

'gotta remember, Erfworld is a narrative story, and as such, the principal and supporting characters (who tend to be warlords or casters) will need to be identifiable to the readers. IE: we must be able to identify/empathize with the characters. They will have to be able to speak and maintain a worldview of a walking, talking person.

Now, the story may call for gobwin or marbit warlords, but they've both shown enough personality throughout Book 1 that they also fit this criteria. (Remember the gobwin scout's alarm at finding Webinar's stack on pg. 109? That's something we, as readers, can certainly understand and internalize.)

Personally, I have nothing against dwa, er, dragons or other beasts being sentient and/or intelligent as men/elves/other humanoids. I just don't believe they would fit within the framework of the narrative of Erfworld.




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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby shneekeythelost » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:33 pm

I guess he really is a 'heavy' unit... too heavy for Dwagons to lift, anyways...
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby Unclever title » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:39 pm

Drifter wrote:'gotta remember, Erfworld is a narrative story, and as such, the principal and supporting characters (who tend to be warlords or casters) will need to be identifiable to the readers. IE: we must be able to identify/empathize with the characters. They will have to be able to speak and maintain a worldview of a walking, talking person.


Well I don't know about empathy (can't remember a time where I was so frustrated I pooped acid), but I can certainly sympathize with poor Banana.
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby DunkelMentat » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:16 am

[quote="cloudbreaker"]I have noticed that we have seen at least one [url=<a class="linkification-ext" href="http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_146:2" title="Linkification: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_146:2">http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_146:2</a>]decrypted[/url] [url=<a class="linkification-ext" href="http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_147:6" title="Linkification: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_147:6">http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_147:6</a>]gobwin[/url],/quote]

Oh snap it's cannon.

I wonder how hard it is to build portals. So far Parson has gone through the only one he's tried; perhaps he can go through any portal. Maybe a portal can link to more than one other portal, and a caster can determine where it sends people at any given time. How big is a portal? Could you put a portal in a big wagon or something and carry it with you across hexes to battles? Then whenever Parson wanted to get to a battle he could port over.

Hmmmmmmmm.
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Re: Summer Updates - 032

Postby DevilDan » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:49 am

I wonder on what particular magic portals are based.
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