Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby MonteCristo » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:43 am

ManaCaster wrote:
Man in the Mists wrote:And I get the feeling that if Jack had gone with Jillian at Spacerock, she would have made him her Chief Caster and consort. Which, now that I think about it, is good for Vinnie that he didn't.

Chief Caster, probably. I mean, Vanna is a hired barbarian, and assuming the new heir or any of the other units in production are casters, they would be low level. But consort? Definetely not. That is one of the main reasons Jack has thus far refused to rejoin her. In fact, it was the main reason he refused during the battle for the gap to Faq.


While it seems like Jillian did not get together with Jack, thus far we have nothing to suggest that's the reason he has refused to rejoin her. In fact he seems regretful for his choice NOT to rejoin her. Heck, if i had to guess, i'd say it's probably a preditamancy/fate thing that keeps him serving GK.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby tgriff02 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:45 am

MonteCristo wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:
Man in the Mists wrote:And I get the feeling that if Jack had gone with Jillian at Spacerock, she would have made him her Chief Caster and consort. Which, now that I think about it, is good for Vinnie that he didn't.

Chief Caster, probably. I mean, Vanna is a hired barbarian, and assuming the new heir or any of the other units in production are casters, they would be low level. But consort? Definetely not. That is one of the main reasons Jack has thus far refused to rejoin her. In fact, it was the main reason he refused during the battle for the gap to Faq.


While it seems like Jillian did not get together with Jack, thus far we have nothing to suggest that's the reason he has refused to rejoin her. In fact he seems regretful for his choice NOT to rejoin her. Heck, if i had to guess, i'd say it's probably a preditamancy/fate thing that keeps him serving GK.


Actually, we do: Jack, himself. He said it himself, I think to Wanda. Don't remember which update though.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby Noigel » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:45 am

1. If this were a movie I would watch the hell out of it.

2. Orwell blinding Jillian could have been seen as a non-damaging way to try to neutralize the fight so discussion could resume... AND HE GOT GUTTED. Ouch. Anyone believe my theory or did Orwell turn enemy when he turned sides?

3. Maybe Wanda went to go get Crapsack...
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby multilis » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:53 am

"Actually, we do: Jack, himself. He said it himself, I think to Wanda. Don't remember which update though."

Jack might end up as consort if Ansom and Wanda aren't around, but he didn't want to be only #3 in her heart. Jack said reason he stayed was Parson > Jillian. (Learning from Parson was worth more. *IF* he was Jillians #1 love that might have changed.)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby ftl » Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:24 am

Noigel wrote:2. Orwell blinding Jillian could have been seen as a non-damaging way to try to neutralize the fight so discussion could resume... AND HE GOT GUTTED. Ouch. Anyone believe my theory or did Orwell turn enemy when he turned sides?



Nah. He turned enemy.

Hes a Haffaton unit now, not a FAQ unit. He has direct orders to protect Olive.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby mortissimus » Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:42 am

ftl wrote:
Noigel wrote:2. Orwell blinding Jillian could have been seen as a non-damaging way to try to neutralize the fight so discussion could resume... AND HE GOT GUTTED. Ouch. Anyone believe my theory or did Orwell turn enemy when he turned sides?



Nah. He turned enemy.

Hes a Haffaton unit now, not a FAQ unit. He has direct orders to protect Olive.


Looking at it from Orwell's perspective, not only has he turned but also the wise King of FAQ has ordered the violent and impatient heir and warlord to stop. Orwell is helping both rulers he cares about raining in a rogue warlord. So in his mind he was no enemy of FAQ.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby Saladman » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:05 am

Hidden Sanity wrote:Do we even know if Orwell is a high level? I know he's the chief lookamancer, but that doesn't necessarily go by level... Maybe higher levels can blind at range... or those with combat expertise...


We know its traditionally by level, and took a ruler's command to change it up in Goodminton. Even without combat, Orwell's the Faq caster most likely to be casting every turn, and could easily stay ahead of other non-combat casters. And we know Orwell had a heavy casting burden, it kept him out of court appearances sometimes. So we don't know, but its quite likely he was the highest level Faq caster.

Of course, that would make Wanda a dilemna for a ruler like Banhammer. I expect he'll get away from level and make an appointment if necessary after this. Maybe Marie, by importance in the absence of a Lookamancer.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby atalex » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:21 pm

Saladman wrote:
Hidden Sanity wrote:Do we even know if Orwell is a high level? I know he's the chief lookamancer, but that doesn't necessarily go by level... Maybe higher levels can blind at range... or those with combat expertise...


We know its traditionally by level, and took a ruler's command to change it up in Goodminton. Even without combat, Orwell's the Faq caster most likely to be casting every turn, and could easily stay ahead of other non-combat casters. And we know Orwell had a heavy casting burden, it kept him out of court appearances sometimes. So we don't know, but its quite likely he was the highest level Faq caster.


Respectfully disagree. Ironically, if Orwell did his job properly (i.e. successfully spot potential invaders in time for Jack to veil the whole city), it is likely that he never engaged any enemy units directly, where as Jack (the guy actually casting the veils that would have deceived attacks) would technically be engaging those units and therefore reaping the leveling benefits. The bio of Lady Artemis pretty much demonstrates that it takes forever to level absent engagement with enemy forces. I think it is quite possible that Jack (who has already been identified as a Master Class foolamancer) is the most powerful Faq caster. Indeed, the fact that the position might otherwise go to the court's Fool solely by dint of level may be why Faq doesn't have a Chief Caster.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby spriteless » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:25 pm

Could be that simply casting gains casters xp, like simply training can gain infantry levels, albeit slower. So Ace and Bunny spending the last of their juice each turn makes sense.

I want to see how badly a thinkamancer / foolamancer link up can trick someone's mind. Since Maggie mentioned she and Sizemore are compatible with a safe close rapport, I guess she and Jack aren't. Jack and Bunny, then? Jackrabbit? Umm...

Banhammer won't disband Jill, because he is an actual pacifist, unlike the wicked witch here.
T'was a splendidly speedy defection.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby boegiboe » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:35 pm

I note that Olive can't flee forever. It's Faq's turn. If she leaves the palace, the city falls by dint of having no more defenders in the garrison (if there are garrison units left, they have only to hunt them down based on Wanda's intel and Marie's prediction). And if the city falls, Olive is captured automatically, since she can't expend move on Faq's turn to leave the hex.

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby Arkinam » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:56 pm

boegiboe wrote:I It's Faq's turn.



this is wrong, in the previous update, the steam golem announces the start of haffaton turn. So she can run rather easily enough, I'm more inclined toward Wanda blasting down the broom, or a gwiffon chase with Jillian

edit: here is the specific line:
Erfworld wrote:It was the tin golem. Steam was shooting from the tip of his conical hat, the signal for the start of Haffaton’s turn.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby wrecan » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:11 pm

Arkinam wrote:
boegiboe wrote:I It's Faq's turn.



this is wrong, in the previous update, the steam golem announces the start of haffaton turn. So she can run rather easily enough, I'm more inclined toward Wanda blasting down the broom, or a gwiffon chase with Jillian

edit: here is the specific line:
Erfworld wrote:It was the tin golem. Steam was shooting from the tip of his conical hat, the signal for the start of Haffaton’s turn.

It's unclear if the steam was part of Jack's foolamancy. A diversion that let him pickpocket Olive's axe.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby boegiboe » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:21 pm

Ah, my bad. Arkinam is correct that it's Haffaton's turn.

Dang it.

However...if there are no Garrison units hiding, and if there are no exits from the Garrison directly to an adjacent hex, then if Olive left the garrison and entered the city proper, she would still be captured (and fall from the sky, wrapped in chains). If Orwell is not croaked, he would count as holding the garrison, and there's no way Banhammer would allow him to be slaughtered in front of him. But, those two plops and a crack sounded pretty fatal for Orwell.

Oh, Olive has to stay under a roof the whole time, since being outside on a broom would count as entering the airspace and thus exiting the garrison.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby effataigus » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:22 pm

wrecan wrote:It's unclear if the steam was part of Jack's foolamancy. A diversion that let him pickpocket Olive's axe.

Nah. They violated Chillaxe's spell => spell is over => definitely a new turn.

This update would be much more exciting for me if Jillian wasn't foretold to kill the overlady. Prophecies always seemed to be dangerous for stories... especially when they are true. I suppose if Olive gets away then it would make Jillian a more sympathetic character in book 1 though... Jillian could afford to be reckless because she knows she immortal until she offs the direhippie.

Hahha, of course.. prequels have the same issue :P
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby bladestorm » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:10 pm

Olive could be heading for the Magick Kingdom. We don't know the actual prediction, so it could be that Jillian destroys Faq. Or Olive could name Banhammer as heir designate, and then abdicate the throne from the Magick Kingdom.

As far as other predictions go -- Haffaton will be the agent of Faq's destruction. It's going to be interesting how the rest of this plays out.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby Salem » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:20 pm

effataigus wrote:
wrecan wrote:It's unclear if the steam was part of Jack's foolamancy. A diversion that let him pickpocket Olive's axe.

Nah. They violated Chillaxe's spell => spell is over => definitely a new turn.

This update would be much more exciting for me if Jillian wasn't foretold to kill the overlady. Prophecies always seemed to be dangerous for stories... especially when they are true. I suppose if Olive gets away then it would make Jillian a more sympathetic character in book 1 though... Jillian could afford to be reckless because she knows she immortal until she offs the direhippie.

Hahha, of course.. prequels have the same issue :P


Though Rob already has laid groundwork for predictions being broken/shifted. If say someone went out of their way to off Jillian presumably only to stop the prediction, they might succede but fate would snap another string into place.


Also, I like your Olive still alive bit there, I know people have been bouncing it around based on Janice, but I do like the idea of her being alive considering the war coming to the magic kingdom, maybe she flees as a refuge into the new court of FAQ or the magic kingdom opens itself to warlords and a lon awaited prediction comes to a close.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby Squishalot » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:59 pm

bladestorm wrote:Olive could be heading for the Magick Kingdom. We don't know the actual prediction, so it could be that Jillian destroys Faq. Or Olive could name Banhammer as heir designate, and then abdicate the throne from the Magick Kingdom.

As far as other predictions go -- Haffaton will be the agent of Faq's destruction. It's going to be interesting how the rest of this plays out.

I'm pretty sure that the city isn't the capital, therefore, no portal. The capital is the city of Haffaton, and so even though Efbaum was formerly a capital, Olive would need to be at her old capital to transfer it over.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby DoctorJest » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:00 pm

Ambug666 wrote:So I wonder how this affects the debate on free will on Erfworld. Jillian and her father have vastly different ideas of what is good for their side, and I'm not certain there is an objective correct answer. Banhammer gave an order and Jillian disobeyed. We've seen this before, but not quite so blatantly. I think this is pretty convincing that at least some units on Erfworld have free will.


It doesn't contradict anything we didn't already know. From the Erf wiki on Duty:
http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Duty

"Duty can backfire when a Unit truly believes their Ruler is too incompetent to make decisions or what they want would destroy the Side, and decide to overrule them. Maggie demonstrated this by giving Stanley a suggestion, Thinkamancer style, and Caesar and Benjamin when they refused to let Don King empty the treasury to make a loan to King Slately.Erf-b2-p059"

It also states that Duty has the highest effect on the Chief Warlord.

Jillian is acting out of Duty. She clarifies this herself word for word that what the King wants would destroy the side. So it's not free will.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby bladestorm » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:02 pm

Salem wrote:
effataigus wrote:
wrecan wrote:It's unclear if the steam was part of Jack's foolamancy. A diversion that let him pickpocket Olive's axe.

Nah. They violated Chillaxe's spell => spell is over => definitely a new turn.

This update would be much more exciting for me if Jillian wasn't foretold to kill the overlady. Prophecies always seemed to be dangerous for stories... especially when they are true. I suppose if Olive gets away then it would make Jillian a more sympathetic character in book 1 though... Jillian could afford to be reckless because she knows she immortal until she offs the direhippie.

Hahha, of course.. prequels have the same issue :P


Though Rob already has laid groundwork for predictions being broken/shifted. If say someone went out of their way to off Jillian presumably only to stop the prediction, they might succeed but fate would snap another string into place.


Also, I like your Olive still alive bit there, I know people have been bouncing it around based on Janice, but I do like the idea of her being alive considering the war coming to the magic kingdom, maybe she flees as a refuge into the new court of FAQ or the magic kingdom opens itself to warlords and a long awaited prediction comes to a close.

Actually, I can see Jillian purposefully not killing Olive just out of spite for Fate and predictions. Get her addicted to heroine buds and leave her to rot in the field. With no directing leadership the kingdom just crumbles, Faq conquers and reclaims their three cities, and this tiny kingdom called Gobwin Knob has a coupe. Later on in Book 4 somewhere, the remnants of Haffaton are discovered, and the CWL of Faq finally kills the Overlord of Haffaton.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 063

Postby BCCroaker » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:12 pm

bladestorm wrote:Faq conquers and reclaims their three cities, and this tiny kingdom called Gobwin Knob has a coupe.

Gobwins Knob get an open topped runabout?
Shouldn't really pick on typos when people are keying in at speed, but I thought it was funny.
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