Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby Talisid » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 pm

Apparently your side doesn't end automatically when your Overlord/Overlady is captured and shackled. Only if they are croaked. This may have interesting implications for Parson's current position.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby Kreistor » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:58 pm

peteratjet wrote:"The saying “Understanding is a three edged sword” comes from the first species, the Vorlons… and it represents the objectivity of seeing things as they are… your side, my side and the truth. Three sides to every story."


Normally, for a sword to gain a name, some unique event must be associated with that weapon. For Three Edge to gain its name, something needed to occur that justified it. While a story may have three sides, a sword is quite literal. Your Side, My Side, and the Truth are that anyone hit by it i dead. Not much room for interpretation when swords are at work.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby bladestorm » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:40 pm

multilis wrote:Jillian=NOOB?

"If she took the time to get a mount, she’d never catch her."

Jillian is on ground, target is in airspace, not her sides turn (so can't cross zones).

Do all cities have zones where off turn you can't move to airspace, or is that only true of capitals? If it is only true of capitals then the Erfworld wiki is wrong.

If it is also true of regular level 4 city, then Jillian is a noob to even *think about* getting a mount for herself.

All cities have zones. How big or small they are varies with the cities, and what the subzones are called can vary by location. A level 1 may consist solely of a garrison, while a level 2 may be a garrison and an airspace.

The city is currently Faq's capitol city, which means Jillian can cross zones all she wants to, on turn or off. Olive, however, can no longer cross from airspace to garrison being that she is now an enemy of the city. She can leave the city on her own move, but as a prisoner, she is under the same rules Jillian was when she tried to escape from Wanda's garden.

All Olive has to do is stay ahead of the gwiffons long enough to meet a Haffaton unit. The odds are severely tipped in Olive's favour compared to when Jillian attempted the same thing. She just has to flee an enemy city that is surrounded by her Side, and she has a mount already. We don't know what the mount's move is, or how it compares to the gwiffons. Olive is also a Florist, so she is entirely in her element in a forested hex and can use that to her full advantage to avoid detection and capture. Jillian has a freshly minted capitol site surrounded by enemies, and protected by a very small retinue. Jillian needs to make sure she can get back to the capitol this turn, so she can't spend all of her move searching for Olive. Olive has the options of Tannenbaums within the first forest hex outside the city to use as a counter attack against Faq. Or maybe some High Elves. Either way, Olive could spend all of her move chasing down Jillian without constantly fearing that her ruler would be attacked and the entire side falling.

Then there is the Fate aspect of things. Jillian was Fated to have something to do with Wanda and Haffaton. Wanda had to end up as a unit of Faq, or else the events told in Book 1 wouldn't be possible without a LOT more explanation. The exact wording of Jillian's prediction to slay the ruler of Haffaton is missing, but she at least has a major part to play in the downfall of Haffaton. Jillian HAD to get back to Haffaton at some point. We have no indication that Olive is fated to do anything. She could hide out in the forest hexes for a few dozen Turns while Haffaton's cities fall one by one. She could close up shop and go to the magick kingdom to spend the rest of her turns. She could end up as the old witch in the forest that is the subject of tales to frighten the low-level units (for lack of children's tales). She could be shot down by Wanda and croaked. She could be incapacitated and Jillian gets the croakstroke. Marie could inform Wanda that her spell is not fated to strike Olive at all, and Olive gets away. We have nothing on the future of Olive, but we have a LOT on the future of Jillian. Haffaton could get reduced down to a single small city that is easily overlooked, and Book 3 or 4 could be a new struggle between Haffaton and Goodminton.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby joosy » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:01 pm

RE: turns, move, etc.

It is still Haffaton's turn. (apparently Haffaton takes its turn before Faq or barbarian kings)

FAQ controls Efbaum so Jillian can move between city zones without expending move.

Since it is Haffaton's turn, Olive can move between city zones in Efbaum but must expend move by doing so.

Currently it is in her best interest to leave so that she can be classified as a fugitive, not a prisoner and will be able to lose the manacles that appeared on her when she left the garrison (thus ceding the city to FaQ). Jillian would then be then hunting Olive in a nice role reversal until Olive makes it to a capitol site still controlled by Haffaton and uses the seat of power to move the capitol there and rebuilds her forces.

I am not sure if there is a mechanism for FAQ to take control of all Haffaton cities at once. If they croak Olive then the unclaimed cities will go barbarian and Faq will have to conquer each in turn. I would have liked for the twist to be that Faq controls all Haffaton cities, razes all of them but Faq's original three to give them a massive treasury, and then they retreat back to the status quo.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby splintermute » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:33 pm

bladestorm wrote:We have no indication that Olive is fated to do anything.


Olive was Fated to be Wanda's Chief Caster. Since she's fulfilled that function, Fate can spit her out like a wad of used chewing gum whenever it wants.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby :-) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:52 pm

Whispri wrote:
Kreistor wrote:
slb wrote:I think that's the second time Xin draw Jilian's sword with only two edges and wondering if it is intentional or not.


Three-Edge has never had three edges, or had a triangular or three-pointed cross section. You can go back to the earliest pages of Book 1 and find that Jamie never drew it that way, either. It has always been a giant, normal great sword or bastard sword (she uses it one-handed sometimes, especially from mount, so I think the latter is probably a better description). We do not yet know why it has that name.

We do. It's named for reasons relating to self-nookie.


Where was this stated?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby cheeseaholic » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:01 pm

Since chief warlords can order their rulers, there's some interesting exploits if you can magically control one. Depending on the ruler's loyalty and/or duty you could force the side to do a lot of things, or possibly get the ruler to auto-disband for disobeying an order. Luckimancy the hell out of that roll if possible....
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby Shai_hulud » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:03 pm

:-) wrote:
Whispri wrote:We do. It's named for reasons relating to self-nookie.
Where was this stated?

IPTSF Text 37
So far, self-discipline had been easy. Out in the field, they usually slept on their separate gwiffons. Nothing could happen at night. Sometimes they made a proper camp, with bedrolls and tents, but even then she was safe from any thoughts of converting her new warlord into a temporary mount unit. There was no way she could do anything with him in camp without Hedda and Chip and half the soldiers knowing about it.

Well, she wasn’t safe from the thoughts. But she was alone with those thoughts in her tent, employing the third edge of Three-Edged Sword, and that would have to do. That was a safe, drama-free place for her to be.

This tower, though. The tower was not a safe place. There were actual locked doors up there. And behind them, rooms. Rooms with beds in them.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby onlyme » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:49 pm

I wonder: How much XP does a king get for conquering a city himself? And I must note that touching a sholder is a very nobel way to conquer a city.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby onlyme » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:53 pm

cheeseaholic wrote:Since chief warlords can order their rulers, there's some interesting exploits if you can magically control one. Depending on the ruler's loyalty and/or duty you could force the side to do a lot of things, or possibly get the ruler to auto-disband for disobeying an order. Luckimancy the hell out of that roll if possible....


I do not think that is an order that has any effect if disregarded.
I'd guess it is more like a "A Sergeant in motion outranks a Lieutenant who doesn't know what's going on."
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby ShieldOfAthena » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:05 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:IPTSF Text 37
So far, self-discipline had been easy. Out in the field, they usually slept on their separate gwiffons. Nothing could happen at night. Sometimes they made a proper camp, with bedrolls and tents, but even then she was safe from any thoughts of converting her new warlord into a temporary mount unit. There was no way she could do anything with him in camp without Hedda and Chip and half the soldiers knowing about it.

Well, she wasn’t safe from the thoughts. But she was alone with those thoughts in her tent, employing the third edge of Three-Edged Sword, and that would have to do. That was a safe, drama-free place for her to be.

This tower, though. The tower was not a safe place. There were actual locked doors up there. And behind them, rooms. Rooms with beds in them.
For the somewhat more innocent: she probably using the grip as a dildo. That is the "third edge."
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby Denar » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:58 pm

Could someone explain this to me?

Jillian’s mouth opened. “She’s our prisoner!” When a garrison fell, the remaining units in other zones of the city were captured automagically.


In the current Book 2 update, the garrison has fallen - Ace left it to join the King, and now a GK commander, Jack, is in there with all the leftover dwagons. Can't they claim the garrison (we know it's empty because the unled dwagons would autoengage any jetstone troops), thereby capturing the remaining resistance?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby Masennus » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:13 pm

Denar wrote:Could someone explain this to me?

Jillian’s mouth opened. “She’s our prisoner!” When a garrison fell, the remaining units in other zones of the city were captured automagically.


In the current Book 2 update, the garrison has fallen - Ace left it to join the King, and now a GK commander, Jack, is in there with all the leftover dwagons. Can't they claim the garrison (we know it's empty because the unled dwagons would autoengage any jetstone troops), thereby capturing the remaining resistance?


Garrison = Tower + Dungeon + Keep
Not Garrison = Airspace + Tunnels + Outer Walls

A Keep is generally the inner part of a castle. It consists of a mini-castle, with both indoor and outdoor areas surrounded by a curtain wall. Lets call the outdoor area "the courtyard" and the indoor area "the keep proper." These are not capitalized to differentiate them from the Keep city zone (since they are two parts of that zone.) The throne room would be inside the keep proper. The upper floors of the keep structure would constitute the Tower and any floors below ground would be the Dungeon. In Jetstone the courtyard area of the Keep is (was) a covered atrium instead of an open courtyard. Jetstone's Tower was also clearly not directly above the palace/throne room areas.

Olive left the Keep (in Garrison) to the Airspace (not in Garrison).

Ace left the courtyard (in Keep, in Garrison) into the keep proper (in Keep, in Garrison). He's still in the Garrison.

The Garrison is still held by all the forces in the throne room. Clearly the throne room would be within the part of the city that controls the city.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby Man in the Mists » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:38 pm

Eva wrote:The shot could also merely knock her to the ground and incapacitate her, leaving Jillian to strike the final blow.


I bet that shot Wanda is fated to make will destroy the broomstick.

Olive - broomstick = Well, you know
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby bladestorm » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:13 am

ShieldOfAthena wrote:
Shai_hulud wrote:IPTSF Text 37
So far, self-discipline had been easy. Out in the field, they usually slept on their separate gwiffons. Nothing could happen at night. Sometimes they made a proper camp, with bedrolls and tents, but even then she was safe from any thoughts of converting her new warlord into a temporary mount unit. There was no way she could do anything with him in camp without Hedda and Chip and half the soldiers knowing about it.

Well, she wasn’t safe from the thoughts. But she was alone with those thoughts in her tent, employing the third edge of Three-Edged Sword, and that would have to do. That was a safe, drama-free place for her to be.

This tower, though. The tower was not a safe place. There were actual locked doors up there. And behind them, rooms. Rooms with beds in them.
For the somewhat more innocent: she probably using the grip as a dildo. That is the "third edge."

She could be using a bladed surface for some more intense sensations. Maybe like a dagger hidden in the sheathe, or a retractable blade in the hilt. All wounds received during such an act would heal at the start of the next turn.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby Krennson » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:39 am

did wanda turn to faq before this update, and I missed it?

or are they just glossing over her sudden decision to turn now?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby Kreistor » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:44 am

ShieldOfAthena wrote:This tower, though. The tower was not a safe place. There were actual locked doors up there. And behind them, rooms. Rooms with beds in them.


Or the fact that "thoughts" are specifically mentioned in the sentence, not enjoyment, which therefore make the Third Edge the Truth. When alone in her tent, she was forced to consider her actions and see the Truth in them, not Her Side and the Other's Side. The Three Edges are Your Side, My Side, and the Truth, and that model makes sense in the context of that sentence... not waht you are calling it.
Last edited by Kreistor on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby joosy » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:27 am

Krennson wrote:did wanda turn to faq before this update, and I missed it?

or are they just glossing over her sudden decision to turn now?


Yes, you missed it.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby bladestorm » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:52 am

Kreistor wrote:Or the fact that "thoughts" are specifically mentioned in the sentence, not enjoyment, which therefore make the Third Edge the Truth. When alone in her tent, she was forced to consider her actions and see the Truth in them, not Her Side and the Other's Side. The Three Edges are Your Side, My Side, and the Truth, and that model makes sense in the context of that sentence... not waht you are calling it.

Oh the irony of pointing out "Your Side, My Side, and the Truth", and informing the other side that they are wrong in their interpretation....


And GAH! wth did you do to the quotes? They were jacked up so bad that it got even worse when I tried to quote you.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 064

Postby Duric » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:37 am

Olive as a fugitive. Her turn should be right before faq turn

Not on haffaton turn
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