Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby wrecan » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:03 am

Keldaria wrote:
cheeseaholic wrote:
Keldaria wrote: we know parsons a hippiemancer but we can now draw some stronger ties between him and dame branch and the kind of trouble he might cause in the future for the world (like false parlays like we've already seen him use for instance).


No we don't.


http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F140.jpg

8th panel

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F130.jpg
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F131.jpg

And the initial false parlay tactic he used.

All that shows is that Janis said he was a Hippiemancer (like she was) to prevent him from being punished for breaking Magic Kingdom sovereignty. Given how ignorant Janis has been revealed to be, I don't think that carries much weight. It may turn out to be true, and if true, my money is on Parson being a signamancer. But Parson may also simply be immune to some rules because he's a player and not merely a unit. (For all we know Judy Gale was also able to enter the Magic Kingdom.)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby Zippy the Squirrel » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:11 am

mortissimus wrote:
Dancing Cthulhu wrote:Erf units seem immortal if they don't fall victim to an unnatural death (if Charlie's over 11,000 turns old...)


Which is like 33 years, so not that ancient. But yes, we have yet to hear about aging and considering they heal fully at dawn, illnesses should not kill them.


Wasn't Goodminton's Predictamancer starting to show signs of "natural decay?" I figured that was Erf for getting old.

EDIT: Here's the text -
"Wanda stared at her. There were wrinkles around Delphie’s eyes, and at the corners of her mouth. Once you could detect the cosmetic spell on her, it couldn’t distract the eye from clear Signs that the Predictamancer was in personal decline. Delphie had seen better turns than these. Something about her was in decay."

Okay, maybe it was her nerves from seeing her doom in Wanda, maybe it's aging, or illness, or Goodminton couldn't afford her upkeep anymore, or something. I always thought it meant she was aging, though.
Last edited by Zippy the Squirrel on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby Chevalier » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:12 am

Wrecan writes:
"It seems odd that someone from StupidWorld names Judy Gale would come to a place named EfBaum and the Emerald City and then pretty much reenact Wizard of Oz without knowing about it. So, I'm thinking Judy Gale came from a different dimension [...] in which Wizard of Oz does not exist."

I think she does know, and that is precisely why she was called to Erfworld.

Consider: the reason Parson is called (other than Rob writing the comic about him) is that he has designed a game that is almost exactly like the Battle for Gobwin Knob. He is ideally suited (almost, anyway) to this particular role. So too would a Wizard of Oz-knowing, genre-savvy Judy be ideally suited to help defeat the witches: she has expertise in just this situation, and has a strong desire to leave her world. I think she was probably a huge fan of The Wizard of Oz, possibly because of her name and location (Kansas), and desperately wanted to visit Oz herself. Just like Parson, she wanted this to happen. She was so well-suited that she duplicated Dorothy's feat of killing one witch in the process of her arrival. After defeating the second witch, she probably began to feel a little less satisfied - until Maxwell made her the scarecrow, lion, and tin man (who "helped her become Ruler," according to Wanda). She was now fully living her dream - just like Dorothy, in the Emerald City, with her three friends. No wonder she didn't return to her world when she first tried to use that power of the Arkenshoes. After Maxwell died, and her friends faded back into constructs, I expect she needed the buds to keep up her Oz fantasy, but obviously that didn't quite work out, resulting in her ability to go home in the end.

Rereading the updates with/about Judy, I don't see any indication that she wasn't aware of the story she was re-enacting, but plenty of hints that she did.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby Vreejack » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:42 am

Chevalier wrote:Wrecan writes:
"It seems odd that someone from StupidWorld names Judy Gale would come to a place named EfBaum and the Emerald City and then pretty much reenact Wizard of Oz without knowing about it. So, I'm thinking Judy Gale came from a different dimension [...] in which Wizard of Oz does not exist."

I think she does know, and that is precisely why she was called to Erfworld.

Consider: the reason Parson is called (other than Rob writing the comic about him) is that he has designed a game that is almost exactly like the Battle for Gobwin Knob. He is ideally suited (almost, anyway) to this particular role. So too would a Wizard of Oz-knowing, genre-savvy Judy be ideally suited to help defeat the witches: she has expertise in just this situation, and has a strong desire to leave her world. I think she was probably a huge fan of The Wizard of Oz, possibly because of her name and location (Kansas), and desperately wanted to visit Oz herself. Just like Parson, she wanted this to happen. She was so well-suited that she duplicated Dorothy's feat of killing one witch in the process of her arrival. After defeating the second witch, she probably began to feel a little less satisfied - until Maxwell made her the scarecrow, lion, and tin man (who "helped her become Ruler," according to Wanda). She was now fully living her dream - just like Dorothy, in the Emerald City, with her three friends. No wonder she didn't return to her world when she first tried to use that power of the Arkenshoes. After Maxwell died, and her friends faded back into constructs, I expect she needed the buds to keep up her Oz fantasy, but obviously that didn't quite work out, resulting in her ability to go home in the end.

Rereading the updates with/about Judy, I don't see any indication that she wasn't aware of the story she was re-enacting, but plenty of hints that she did.


I like this. It would have driven her crazy, just as it drove Parson crazy. "I'm doing the Wizard of Oz thing." he said (approximately) when he arrived in the tower of Efdup. When he realized how appropriate the volcano with the tweisty tunnels was he said it was "more confirmation I'm dreaming." Judy Gale probably said similar things. After all, it was not exactly the Wizard of Oz that she encountered, just something eerily similar. Perhaps she was an expert on L. F. Baum's universe. Edit: Or perhaps it just needed to seem very familiar, and to be a place she wanted to go.
So...Watashi wa mizugorō ga sukina koto o kiita, neh?
A Prediction is what would have happened had there been no Prediction. What is scary is that they are also what will happen in spite of the Prediction.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby Vreejack » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:46 am

Zippy the Squirrel wrote:
mortissimus wrote:
Dancing Cthulhu wrote:Erf units seem immortal if they don't fall victim to an unnatural death (if Charlie's over 11,000 turns old...)


Which is like 33 years, so not that ancient. But yes, we have yet to hear about aging and considering they heal fully at dawn, illnesses should not kill them.


Wasn't Goodminton's Predictamancer starting to show signs of "natural decay?" I figured that was Erf for getting old.

EDIT: Here's the text -
"Wanda stared at her. There were wrinkles around Delphie’s eyes, and at the corners of her mouth. Once you could detect the cosmetic spell on her, it couldn’t distract the eye from clear Signs that the Predictamancer was in personal decline. Delphie had seen better turns than these. Something about her was in decay."

Okay, maybe it was her nerves from seeing her doom in Wanda, maybe it's aging, or illness, or Goodminton couldn't afford her upkeep anymore, or something. I always thought it meant she was aging, though.


Or something Dame Branch had done to her. Note that almost no one in Erf World looks their age. The logical conclusion is that they do not age. The signamancy on Delphi meant something, but i doubt it was the simple passage of turns.
So...Watashi wa mizugorō ga sukina koto o kiita, neh?
A Prediction is what would have happened had there been no Prediction. What is scary is that they are also what will happen in spite of the Prediction.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby Vreejack » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:56 am

wrecan wrote:All that shows is that Janis said he was a Hippiemancer (like she was) to prevent him from being punished for breaking Magic Kingdom sovereignty.

Posible. And perhaps she chose hippiemancer because she knew no one could challenge her. And she would have wanted to protect him. Or he could be a hippiemancer. Or he could be some other strange sort of thing who counts as a caster--an idea he suggested himself. But the fact that Parson is subject to other rules of Erf, such as crossing hex boundaries off-turn, suggests that he must be some kind of caster, Hippiemancer or no. Caveat: The Magic Kingdom might have been made by units instead of the Titans, and so they might have gotten the rules wrong for the portal.
wrecan wrote:Given how ignorant Janis has been revealed to be, I don't think that carries much weight.
Can you justify this statement?
wrecan wrote:For all we know Judy Gale was also able to enter the Magic Kingdom.
And for all we know, Judy Gale could not enter the Magic Kingdom. How is this evidence of anything?
So...Watashi wa mizugorō ga sukina koto o kiita, neh?
A Prediction is what would have happened had there been no Prediction. What is scary is that they are also what will happen in spite of the Prediction.
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Re:

Postby Vreejack » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:03 pm

Free Radical wrote:Interesting how much emphasis Banhammer placed on The Emerald City as the place where Olive was popped. Kind of sounds like it's possible for a unit to have a parent who isn't the ruler, or else he wouldn't even have needed to ask the question beyond re-emphasising that she popped as part of Charlie's side. Maybe a warlord/caster unit popped in the capital is a child of the ruler, while one popped in another city might be the child of whatever unit is managing that city?


Interesting point. I was wondering why he diolog seemed so awkward. Everyone present was assuming something we had never heard of. If true then governors can pop their own children. Spiffy.
So...Watashi wa mizugorō ga sukina koto o kiita, neh?
A Prediction is what would have happened had there been no Prediction. What is scary is that they are also what will happen in spite of the Prediction.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby Vreejack » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:11 pm

Jamus wrote:This just makes me more and more and more sure that Janis IS Olive.


You have convinced me, sir. I shall run right out and join the Bavarian Illuminati.
So...Watashi wa mizugorō ga sukina koto o kiita, neh?
A Prediction is what would have happened had there been no Prediction. What is scary is that they are also what will happen in spite of the Prediction.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby wrecan » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:31 pm

Chevalier wrote:Wrecan writes:
"It seems odd that someone from StupidWorld names Judy Gale would come to a place named EfBaum and the Emerald City and then pretty much reenact Wizard of Oz without knowing about it. So, I'm thinking Judy Gale came from a different dimension [...] in which Wizard of Oz does not exist."

I think she does know, and that is precisely why she was called to Erfworld.

Consider: the reason Parson is called (other than Rob writing the comic about him) is that he has designed a game that is almost exactly like the Battle for Gobwin Knob. He is ideally suited (almost, anyway) to this particular role. So too would a Wizard of Oz-knowing, genre-savvy Judy be ideally suited to help defeat the witches: she has expertise in just this situation, and has a strong desire to leave her world. I think she was probably a huge fan of The Wizard of Oz, possibly because of her name and location (Kansas), and desperately wanted to visit Oz herself. Just like Parson, she wanted this to happen. She was so well-suited that she duplicated Dorothy's feat of killing one witch in the process of her arrival. After defeating the second witch, she probably began to feel a little less satisfied - until Maxwell made her the scarecrow, lion, and tin man (who "helped her become Ruler," according to Wanda). She was now fully living her dream - just like Dorothy, in the Emerald City, with her three friends. No wonder she didn't return to her world when she first tried to use that power of the Arkenshoes. After Maxwell died, and her friends faded back into constructs, I expect she needed the buds to keep up her Oz fantasy, but obviously that didn't quite work out, resulting in her ability to go home in the end.

Rereading the updates with/about Judy, I don't see any indication that she wasn't aware of the story she was re-enacting, but plenty of hints that she did.

Interesting. I think you convinced me!
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby the_tick_rules » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:13 pm

Wow, Charlie finally got some history revealed, awesome. Well now we know he isn't the dish itself.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby wrecan » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:34 pm

Vreejack wrote:Can you justify this statement?

Nope. i withdraw it. Janis may not be clueless.
Vreejack wrote:
wrecan wrote:For all we know Judy Gale was also able to enter the Magic Kingdom.
And for all we know, Judy Gale could not enter the Magic Kingdom. How is this evidence of anything?
I didn't cite it as evidence of anything. i cited it to show that nothing contradicts my theory that Parson could be exempt from these rules as a summoned warlord.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby ShieldOfAthena » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:40 pm

mortissimus wrote:And that was only the first hit on Google for Parson+tools. Honestly I think most names can be connected to some tool company in this great big world.
Distributors are not manufacturers.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby drachefly » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:48 pm

Denar wrote:
bladestorm wrote:
Guppy wrote:'ll bet two carnyval ride tickets that Jillian ends up being the one who (re-)croaks the zombie-Banhammer.

Put some quatloo on it and I'll take that wager.


Now that's unfair - we already know that Jillian said she was far away when the sacking of FAQ occurred, and that she doesn't seem to have any idea of the extent to which Wanda was involved.


It's not unfair to just offer, like he did.

Now, it was kind of silly of him to offer since you'd been shown the reasons in between...
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby Kreistor » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:51 pm

mortissimus wrote:And that was only the first hit on Google for Parson+tools. Honestly I think most names can be connected to some tool company in this great big world.


You mean like Ridgid?

http://www.ridgid.com/

Because we all love our Ridgid Tools.
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http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Erfworld_Mechanics The starting page for accessing all known Erfworld "rules".
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby Vreejack » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:53 pm

wrecan wrote:I didn't cite it as evidence of anything. i cited it to show that nothing contradicts my theory that Parson could be exempt from these rules as a summoned warlord.

You could also have said that Judy never declared herself to be a non-caster. Unless you can show that it is something she ought to have said, then it has about as much weight on the scales of truth as decaring you had shredded wheat for breakfast. I dare say that if Judy Gale had ever entered the Magic Kingdom then someone would have commented on it, instead of the wishy-washy comment from Wanda that she had never heard of Judy casting (which is in itself suggestive). Not that Judy would have needed to use the portal, but all the same I think her presence in the MK would have been remarkable enough to have been remembered by someone. Certainly Charlie would have understod its implications.

Keep in mind that the only reason Parson entered the MK was because he saw it as the better alternative to drowning in lava. Judy probably never felt such prodding, so it is a good bet that she never seriously considered entering the portal. She probably has the same status as Parson: a quasi-caster (undemonstrated) whose abilities are unknown to all, including himself, either a caster who has not discovered his abilities or a caster in name only (CINO).
So...Watashi wa mizugorō ga sukina koto o kiita, neh?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby wrecan » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:43 pm

Vreejack wrote:
wrecan wrote:I didn't cite it as evidence of anything. i cited it to show that nothing contradicts my theory that Parson could be exempt from these rules as a summoned warlord.

You could also have said that Judy never declared herself to be a non-caster.

I could have said a lot of things, so I'm really not sure where you are going with this line of questioning. We don't even seem to disagree on the substance. Is there some sort of specific concession you're looking for?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby mortissimus » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:51 pm

vintermann wrote:
mortissimus wrote:That spinning off sides is only for Royals is based on the only one explaining the rules was Ossomer and he only talked about his own, Royal, side.


No, it's based on a Parson's Klog page 9, TBFGK 79a:

Code: Select all
But Royalty is different. Royal and Noble units have slightly stronger stats, and level faster. Cities rules by Royals pop Nobles
(and more Royals). Royal empires split off sometimes into new sides. Royals claim to trace their lineage back to the Titans.


Since it comes in the middle of a listing of things which are different with Royal sides, it was natural to infer that non-Royal empires don't split off sometimes into new sides.


Ok, that is a better reason. But if you read the last sentence as a bridge between their abilities and the divine mandate to rule, then the sentence about splitting off can be read as part of their abilities or as part of their linage bridge.

oslecamo2_temp wrote:Notice however that a royal side can still have non-royal warlords, and nothing says those non-royal warlords from a royal faction are exempt from spliting off into their own new sides.


Can, yes. But since they pop only Royal and Noble warlords (or at least all warlords we have seen that was popped by a Royal side were either Royal or Noble), then he has to have been turned. And as we know.
Klog 12 wrote:Turned and captured units have notoriously low Loyalty to their new side, unless you put a spell on them. Capturing is usually reserved for valuable casters.


So the common commoner warlord belongs to a commoner side.

Which leads either to this being the odd commoner warlord in a Royal side being sent off to explore across the sea because Royal sides are the only ones that can split, or it is a commoner warlord in a non-Royal side slitting because all sides can do that.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby EthericSentinel » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:51 pm

Morni wrote:Badminton

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:Badmitten

wrecan wrote:Badminton
Badminton
Badminton


Is this another deliberate mistake, like the Gillian thing?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:11 pm

mortissimus wrote:
oslecamo2_temp wrote:Notice however that a royal side can still have non-royal warlords, and nothing says those non-royal warlords from a royal faction are exempt from spliting off into their own new sides.


Can, yes. But since they pop only Royal and Noble warlords (or at least all warlords we have seen that was popped by a Royal side were either Royal or Noble), then he has to have been turned. And as we know.
Klog 12 wrote:Turned and captured units have notoriously low Loyalty to their new side, unless you put a spell on them. Capturing is usually reserved for valuable casters.


So the common commoner warlord belongs to a commoner side.



Not necessarily, as basic infantry can promoted to warlord by payment of smuckers. Stanley himself started as a simple grunt for a king, that eventually earned a promotion to warlord, then to chief warlord, heir and finally Overlord.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066

Postby Max™ » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:16 pm

Hah, interesting bit of foreshadowing: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F136.jpg just before he enters the portal he says "There's no place like home."

Noticed it but didn't quite see the significance at the time, of course.
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