Summer Update - 033

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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby teratorn » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:03 am

shadowdemon_lord wrote: Also the idea of putting Parson on the front lines seems, well wrong. Sure, as a unit his combat stats are good, but without that sword he isn't ruthless, he now has compassion for others. He's also fat, not fit for long marches, and likely doesn't have that great move.

We know he has zero move. And we don't know if that's a stat one can change.

I though of a way he could fly around. Apparently three archons would have been enough to carry Parson with the net thing. Maybe he can ask Zhopa to make some sort of harness that he can strapp to a few archons.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby Lord Kasavin » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:26 am

teratorn wrote:
shadowdemon_lord wrote: Also the idea of putting Parson on the front lines seems, well wrong. Sure, as a unit his combat stats are good, but without that sword he isn't ruthless, he now has compassion for others. He's also fat, not fit for long marches, and likely doesn't have that great move.

We know he has zero move. And we don't know if that's a stat one can change.

I though of a way he could fly around. Apparently three archons would have been enough to carry Parson with the net thing. Maybe he can ask Zhopa to make some sort of harness that he can strapp to a few archons.


Or, the net was a magic item capable of holding and teleporting a heavy unit, not just a "net."
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby cloudbreaker » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:54 am

Or Charlie was completely unprepared for just how big Parson actually was.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby moose o death » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:56 am

or archons are heavy units themselves and can carry heavy units. i think it's retconjuration personally and it's a question for another update ie 32.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby Killer Angel » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:45 am

Tha Holy War is definitely starting. And the troops are noteably strong
I suppose that this will put in alarm all the kingdoms of the ex-coalition...
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:39 am

Cmdr I. Heartly Noah wrote:
Welf von Ehrwald wrote:A side note: The chief warlord of Unaroyal is a wimp. He only gives a general bonus of +1 to his side, assuming the minimum attack is
+1.


mmm - you're assuming the current Chief Warlord of Unaroyal is at Warchalking, which I find hard to believe, considering that he/she would have either been at GK or back home, and not sitting with a tiny garrison of a far-flung level 2 city, or you're comparing his smallest bonus of 1 to Ansom's of 3.

What you're probably looking at is one or maybe two low-level warlords giving a +1 leadership bonus.

Assuming the Chief Warlord gives a global bonus to all his troops everywhere, the new Unaroyal Chief Warlord could be level 5 and still only give a +1 bonus to the troops at Warchalking. (Though if he could do that and they had a lvl 1 warlord there, they could stack the entire garrison and have a minimum attack of 3, rather than averaging 2-3 - though, then again, Ansom might have been estimating their base attacks, not after leadership bonuses).

But yeah, CW bonuses seem to break down at full/half/third (rounding down), so a lvl 5 CW gives 5/2/1, a 6 would be 6/3/2, an 8 is 8/4/2, and a 10 is 10/5/3

Also, considering that Ansom is the best we've seen, and is only approached by Jillian (9) and Caesar (8/9ish), I'm not sure it's fair to call the (likely replacement) warlord of Unaroyal a "wimp" for being a 5, even if you're right about that. (Webinar was a 5, and he was no great shakes I guess, but "wimp?")


Well, okay, "Wimp" is maybe really a little hard. But after seeing a bunch of high levels, I became a little bit demanding. But don't forget: level 5 is the maximum he could have. He also could be a level 2, giving no bonus to his troops (assuming your 1-1/2-1/3 rule is right, which I think is).

Killer Angel wrote:Tha Holy War is definitely starting. And the troops are noteably strong
I suppose that this will put in alarm all the kingdoms of the ex-coalition...


I wonder why they didn't took jack with them. he could veiled the troops as a horde of uncroaked.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby DevilDan » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:13 am

I don't see the need to change anything: Charlie had already had his Mork conversation with Charlie, so Charlie likely had some idea of Parson's size—and of his unusual provenance, given his un-Erf-like physiognomy. The net was clearly made for a larger-than=average unit: Charlie merely needed to direct more archons to carry it; he certainly had plenty of them in Erf's airspace at that point.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby nerf-dweller » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:59 am

teratorn wrote:
shadowdemon_lord wrote: Also the idea of putting Parson on the front lines seems, well wrong. Sure, as a unit his combat stats are good, but without that sword he isn't ruthless, he now has compassion for others. He's also fat, not fit for long marches, and likely doesn't have that great move.

We know he has zero move. And we don't know if that's a stat one can change.

I though of a way he could fly around. Apparently three archons would have been enough to carry Parson with the net thing. Maybe he can ask Zhopa to make some sort of harness that he can strapp to a few archons.


There are a lot of questions still unanswered. Parson ran into the hex boundary. Yet he could only view is wearing this 3-D glasses. He saw the wall and could not get through it. What if he tried to pass through without wearing the 3-D glasses? Parson has shown he can throw off the shackles that Erfworld puts on him. The hex boundary may be another thing that Parson could overcome, if he had a mind to do.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby Drifter » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:20 pm

nerf-dweller wrote:There are a lot of questions still unanswered. Parson ran into the hex boundary. Yet he could only view is wearing this 3-D glasses. He saw the wall and could not get through it. What if he tried to pass through without wearing the 3-D glasses? Parson has shown he can throw off the shackles that Erfworld puts on him. The hex boundary may be another thing that Parson could overcome, if he had a mind to do.


Did he encounter the hex barrier or the garrison barrier? I believe Parson was unable to so much as move out of the garrison, much less the hex GK lies within. Stanley mentioned that he would leave Parson as a garrison unit:

"And we're not even sure you've got move, right? You'd need to be promoted from garrison unit... No, I think for the time being, I'd like to keep you right here in the capital where I can mentor you." -Summer Update 9

I don't think the city fills up the entire hex.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby TheWombat » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:36 pm

Spot wrote:
TheWombat wrote:This post makes me think of decrypted less like Zombies and more like Borg. They retain their memories/experience and can use them to exploit the side they used to work for. Way to go Parson, introduce the Borg on Erf, what next Tribbles?




The Borg, by the way, weren't an idea that was original to Star Trek. They rather obviously copied the idea from a novel called "Vacuum Flowers"... and it was a poor copy.

...

And... heck... while we're at it, even "Vacuum Flowers" can't claim to have originated the basic concept, as "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" from the 1950s covers enough of the basic concept to overlap a bit.

Or "Hellstrom's Hive" by Frank Herbert.

Or even "The Thing" (movie) based on "Who Goes There?" (short story).


Of course, the idea is much older than that of the Borg, but in a webcomic's forum to get your point across it's safer to assume that popular Science Fiction is common knowledge amongst most of the posters.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby Sokrotes » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:27 pm

So i noticed no one touched on this subject yet, perhaps cause its so obvious, but i wanted to point out the strategic significance of Warchalking. Not only is it the closest town to GK making it an obvious choice but more important it has farms. Ive played many games like Age of Empires, Starecraft, and various others where you have a main base and other smaller places to gather resources. The main source or power for GK has been its gems and thanks to Sizemore this has given them a huge amount of power. But now they have a way to get food to GK. They didnt need food for the uncroaked but they do for things like twolls and gobwins. Even though food just "pops" i believe it cant pop unless u have some resource available to make it, similar to moneymancy i suppose, stuffamancy?

Second I was just thinking about the zero upkeep for decrypted units, is that for all of them or just Ansom? When we first learned how decrypted were created they mention the more time is focused o na singular unit the slower it decays, while mass raising makes them weaker and decay faster. She raised Ansom by himself while she then just mass raised most everyone else. Perhaps the other decrypted arnt quiet as powerful and unique but still great.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby raphfrk » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:23 pm

Cmdr I. Heartly Noah wrote:But yeah, CW bonuses seem to break down at full/half/third (rounding down), so a lvl 5 CW gives 5/2/1, a 6 would be 6/3/2, an 8 is 8/4/2, and a 10 is 10/5/3

Also, considering that Ansom is the best we've seen, and is only approached by Jillian (9) and Caesar (8/9ish), I'm not sure it's fair to call the (likely replacement) warlord of Unaroyal a "wimp" for being a 5, even if you're right about that. (Webinar was a 5, and he was no great shakes I guess, but "wimp?")


This would give:

Leadership bonus:

Chief Warlord
Global: Level/3
Same Hex: Level/2
Same Stack: Level

Caster bonus (matched unit types only)
Global: Level/8
Same Hex: Level/2
Same Stack: Level

That would mean that Wanda is level 8.

The global bonus would have to require that she was chief croakamancer, or at least the 2 bonuses of the same type don't stack.

Ansom has an attack of 33. I wonder if he gets his own chief warlord bonus. That would mean that he needs an extra bonus of 15. His own level is 10, so his base attack could be level*1.5.

However, it is also necessary to take into account the Arkentool bonus. I wonder if that is unique or linked to the wielder's level.

Ansom could have a base attack of level*0.75 to give him a base attack of 7 and an artefact bonus of 8 from Wanda. However, that is pure guessing.

Since the lowest other unit is at 30, the at most 12 can come from the artefact.

I wonder if you are in a stack with a warlord who has a leadership bonus of 5 and the chief warlord has a global bonus of 4, do you get a leadership bonus of 5 or 9. The rule could be that you get the highest possible warlord bonus and no more. Otherwise, Ansom should have included a standard warlord in his stack too.

shadowdemon_lord wrote:Her bonuses are nearly as large as Ansoms, which means she alone is probably a more powerful chief warlord then a lot of factions have (and the breakdown of her bonuses seems to work the same as chief warlords, with a bit weaker side wide bonus then the math would indicate).


Yeah, the fact that all of GK's units count as uncroaked is a major plus. This gives them almost 2 chief warlords worth of bonus.

Also this would seem to mean that the "side wide bonuses" seem to apply to all units in the battle group, as Stanley's side wide bonus as overlord don't seem to be factored into this fight.


That would also cover why the defenders don't have any chief warlord bonus. Side could mean all units in the column, rather than global.

MarbitChow wrote:But what if each +1 made the unit twice as good as it was before? This would be one possible way that bonuses could be multiplicative.

In that case, a "3" Ogre would be worth 2 Creampuffs, a "4" Ogre would be worth 4, an "5" Ogre would be worth 8, and a "6" Ogre would be worth 16 Creampuffs!


In many games, it works exactly like that. A level 50 could easily kill 10 level 10s.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby Drifter » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:43 pm

Sokrotes wrote:Second I was just thinking about the zero upkeep for decrypted units, is that for all of them or just Ansom? When we first learned how decrypted were created they mention the more time is focused on a singular unit the slower it decays, while mass raising makes them weaker and decay faster. She raised Ansom by himself while she then just mass raised most everyone else. Perhaps the other decrypted arn't quiet as powerful and unique but still great.


I believe you are confusing Croakamancy with Decryption.

The following is from pg 116 for ease of reference:

[She explained it this way. "Croakamancy comes from the mind."

The more time and attention the caster spends uncroaking the unit, the closer it will be to its original strength and abilities when it was alive. And the more turns it lasts before degrading. So a good croakamancer can mass-animate every fallen unit in a hex, or city zone. But they'll be the weakest kind, and only last a few turns.
]

I would posit that the Arkenpliers, being a singularly unique item, one of only four known but differing Tools, does not suffer the limits of run-of-the-mill croakamancy. Book 1 made the process appear simple and easy, particularly for a master caster like Wanda. It didn't look like she was losing any juice by using the pliers. So, I believe the pliers were doin' the work, not Wanda (though she was certainly in control of them).

I imagine any decrypted unit would experience what Ansom did; they'd have their full mental faculties (albeit with a new loyalty and mindset) and all their special abilities. They'd have no upkeep and no degradation.

The balance to this incredible advantage is the exclusivity of the ability; only one person can do it. Personally, I believe once the intel gets out about how these units are created, Wanda will have a virtual bulls-eye on her head for the rest of her turns... :|
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby DunkelMentat » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:45 pm

"Or maybe even an avatar."

Oh shit.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby aquaticrna » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:57 pm

It states pretty clearly that "units get a stack bonus that maxes at 8" (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F040a.jpg) so the bonus maxes at 8 once you hit 8 units in the stack
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby Angband » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:13 pm

Here's one thing I haven't seen anyone in this thread comment on:

The defenders, what few there were, wore the red and orange livery of Unaroyal. The tower bore a banner: a black torus with white lettering, on a red and orange field.


Hmmm, what sort of item would a Black Torus with White Lettering be?

In response most of the thread discussion so far: I can't believe people are assuming that the other factions have ANY INKLING that there is any threat coming from Gobwin Knob. NOBODY, not even Charlie, knows that Wanda is now attuned to the Arkenpliers. Which means that nobody knows about Decryption, either. Why would they set a trap for a force they have no reason to suspect even exists?

Any reports they get from Warchalking will be sure to confuse them. GK was in ruins, how are they able to pop an overwhelming strike force and hit a target in the field just four turns later?

I predict the words OMG HAX being sent by thinkagram in the near future.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby Wender » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:19 pm

DunkelMentat wrote:"Or maybe even an avatar."

Oh shit.


Especially since Wanda gets more and more frightening every time we see her. We know she has committed any number of atrocities to get the Arkenpliers she was Fated to have, all presumably with the same grim efficiency. She has them; what now? Ansom is thinking about world conquest, because he would. Power seems only to have focused Wanda, but toward what? She might well have the world's most powerful army at her back...
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby gameboy1234 » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:29 pm

DunkelMentat wrote:"Or maybe even an avatar."

Oh shit.


I mentioned a suspicion I have about Wanda in another thread. It's kinda spoilerific, if true, so I won't repeat it hear, but I think we see the same thing.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby Wender » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:31 pm

Angband wrote:Here's one thing I haven't seen anyone in this thread comment on:

The defenders, what few there were, wore the red and orange livery of Unaroyal. The tower bore a banner: a black torus with white lettering, on a red and orange field.


Hmmm, what sort of item would a Black Torus with White Lettering be?


Well, that's why they can only muster a warlord with a +1 bonus: If they can't even afford a white wall tire, they surely can't get good help. :)

Angband wrote:In response most of the thread discussion so far: I can't believe people are assuming that the other factions have ANY INKLING that there is any threat coming from Gobwin Knob. NOBODY, not even Charlie, knows that Wanda is now attuned to the Arkenpliers. Which means that nobody knows about Decryption, either. Why would they set a trap for a force they have no reason to suspect even exists?

Any reports they get from Warchalking will be sure to confuse them. GK was in ruins, how are they able to pop an overwhelming strike force and hit a target in the field just four turns later?


Because of the impossibility that just happened four turns ago: an instantly lethal, multi-hex 'mancy effect that wiped the entire Coalition off the map. Charlie knew a TPK was coming; Parson told him as much. So maybe there will not be scouts at Warchalking, but put the two together: First, GK wipes out a massive invading force in one shot; then, four turns later, Warchalking gets crushed, and any reports that escape indicate that both coalition and GK forces were involved. Impossibilities stacked on top of impossibilities, none of which bode well for any other side. Of course they're going to start investigating. They won't dare mount a force until they have some idea of what they're up against, but they will want to know just what is going on well before something impossible happens to their capitols.
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Re: Summer Update - 033

Postby gameboy1234 » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:36 pm

Angband wrote:Hmmm, what sort of item would a Black Torus with White Lettering be?


Good one, I'd missed that. :D

In response most of the thread discussion so far: I can't believe people are assuming that the other factions have ANY INKLING that there is any threat coming from Gobwin Knob.


I think they have some inkling. They know Stanley is still there, with the hammer and the dragons. That's bad news all by itself. I think you are correct to surmise that no one knows the fate of the Arkenpliers however.

I doubt it's a trap at Warchalking. It could just be that Unaroyal doesn't have any way to reinforce those troops. It could also be a rear guard, just barely enough troops to hold the city, who are there for no purpose but to warn the rest of the kingdoms when something comes out of GK. There'll be a brief intelligence report just before the defenders get defeated. It's a smart move, if that's what it is.

I sorta doubt they were expecting anything this soon though.
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