Attunement

Speculation, discoveries, complaints, accusations, praise, and all other Erfworld discussion.

Attunement

Postby TokraZeno » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:15 pm

The latest text update seems to have shed quite a bit of light on a few things, but also raised a few questions. I'm choosing to focus on the one that I found odd; Attunement.

Judy's summoning story states that her attunement took time. Perhaps this is just a misinterpretation by Wanda of a third hand story and she instead means that it took her several turns to learn how to use them, but even that doesn't make much sense. Even though she didn't understand it, Wanda was able to Decrypt immediately and I suspect it was similar story with Stanley and his dragons.

Maybe it's because she's not from Erf a bit of retconjuration of Fate was required? Or it could just a reference to the movie or her needing to break them in being shoes and all. Thoughts?
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Re: Attunement

Postby bladestorm » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:46 pm

I took it more as she had the Shoes in her possession for a few days/turns before she even attempted to wear them/attune to them. It may have even taken her that long to realize that a stupidworlder even COULD attune.
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Re: Attunement

Postby drachefly » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:17 am

Maybe she had to have some personal dramatic revelation before she could attune.
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Re: Attunement

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:29 pm

You mean like "The broom actually makes these work with the gingham dress. I look fantastic!" That kind of revelation?
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Re: Attunement

Postby drachefly » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:42 pm

Maybe she had to discover the magic of friendship with the equivalents of the Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and the Cowardly Lion, or something.
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Re: Attunement

Postby bladestorm » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:29 pm

Maybe she had to perform a sacrifice to the Titans in order to Attune. Wanda has made plenty of sacrifices. Apparently so has Charlie. No idea about what Stanley sacrificed in order to Attune. For Judy though, she had to sacrifice her beloved dog, and had to wait until the moon was full.
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Re: Attunement

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:43 pm

She needed to find Twu Wuv?
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Re: Attunement

Postby Vreejack » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:50 pm

I am also curious about the fact that Judy Gale took some time to attune to her tool. The reference to the Wizard of Oz here is obvious, but in all other cases we have seen, attunement was instantaneous,or was expected to be instantaneous. Judy's experience was explicitly singled out as peculiar. Was that because she was from Stupidworld? And does that mean that all Stupidworlders will attune to any arkentool they encounter?

Or it may be that attunement is actually a function of the particular tool and who is trying to wield it. Stanley treats every problem like it's a nail. The arkenpliers are obviously a croakamancer tool--nobody seems to have realized that before and none of its wielders seems to have had the requisite knowledge. Heck, Spacerock tried it out on all its warlords, but seems to have ognored the casters. The Ruby Slippers were for people who liked to travel and explore. Perhaps the arkendish is attuneable to anyone who recognizes its purpose. Perhaps all tools are attuneable to anyone who recognizes their purpose and understands their operation.
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Re: Attunement

Postby drachefly » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:20 pm

Jetstone tried the pliers on each of its princes, anyway - did, say, Antium ever get a shot at them?
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Re: Attunement

Postby woort » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:56 pm

If its like the wizard of oz movie, Judy was probably always capable of attaining to the shoes but just never tried them out.
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Re: Attunement

Postby Intocabille_CZ » Sat May 25, 2013 5:40 am

I have another question about theory of atunement.

Do you think that there can be more than one unit at any given time atuned to specific arkentool? Like Wanda to the pliers. Do you think there can be another unit able to atune at the moment? Or does the Erfworld need to wait for Wanda´s death before Fate will pop another aune-able unit for the pliers? Can an arkentool have several atuned users at a time or new atunement will overwrite the old one till the other unit touches the tool again (if it is possible there are more atune-able units at the time)
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Re: Attunement

Postby Shai_hulud » Mon May 27, 2013 11:12 pm

If the story Wanda told in the last IPTSF update is true, then Charlie and Blair were alive at the same time.
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Re: Attunement

Postby Selexor » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:39 pm

On the subject of Attunement, I always thought of it as being like it's described on page 45 of LiaB:
"Between the volcano link-up and his three recent levels (two from traps and combat, one from all of the city rebuilding), Sizemore was now a greater Dirtamancer than he ever imagined he could become. He had not actually crossed the threshold to Master class, but that could happen any time a caster gained powerful new insight into his discipline or major class. The body analogy wasn't quite enough to push him past that mark; he was still missing something. But for the first time in his life, he felt pretty sure that he would get there."


Wanda was the only one we've actually watched attune to a 'Tool, but she knew in advance that she was going to attune to it thanks to Predictamancy and Fate. She was already in the right frame of mind, if that's an acceptable way of putting it, to attune. Someone else - especially if they have only recently stumbled across their 'Tool unexpectedly - might take more time to attune. Hell, it's right there in the term we're using. You have to attune, to adjust, to be changed either slightly or fundamentally, before you can truly access the power of an Arkentool.

As to whether more than one unit can be attuned, I think page 29 of LiaB lays it out nicely. Lady Sylvia's discussion with Ossomer as she describes picking up the Arkenpliers after the fall of Ansom:
"Lady Firebaugh has said as much, and I have seen as much. I have held the Arkenpliers, did you know? Have you?"

Ossomer nodded solemnly. "I have. Each Prince of Jetstone held them at least once, in hopes of attunement."

For the first time, Sylvia smiled. It was only the barest tightening of the lips, but it made her seem present in a way she normally did not.

"Do you remember the sense of the divine? Did you feel that your hands were in contact with something greater than the world?" she asked. She turned her head and looked into the featureless distance. "The Arkentools were used to build the world. I wielded the Arkenpliers, and had the feeling that they could build more worlds than only this one. Their power was primal, undeniable, and very strange."


She clearly felt something that neither Ossomer or Ansom did, but didn't instantly attune to them. Maybe because Wanda was fated to attune and that blocked Sylvia from doing so, or maybe because she needed time to attune properly as suggested above, while Wanda was already ready to attune at the first chance. But this suggests to me pretty strongly that more than one unit can be ready to attune, even if only one unit can be an attuned Wielder at a time. Sort of like the Potentials from Buffy the Vampire Slayer - they're ready, and the already have some level of power that most normals don't, and when Fate calls they'll get the full measure of power. But they just don't get to use that power fully yet.
But of course that's just my opinion.
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Re: Attunement

Postby wih » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:46 pm

Selexor wrote:She clearly felt something that neither Ossomer or Ansom did, but didn't instantly attune to them. Maybe because Wanda was fated to attune and that blocked Sylvia from doing so, or maybe because she needed time to attune properly as suggested above, while Wanda was already ready to attune at the first chance. But this suggests to me pretty strongly that more than one unit can be ready to attune, even if only one unit can be an attuned Wielder at a time. Sort of like the Potentials from Buffy the Vampire Slayer - they're ready, and the already have some level of power that most normals don't, and when Fate calls they'll get the full measure of power. But they just don't get to use that power fully yet.


Remember it took Judy several days to attune to the 'shoes. It's entirely possible that not everyone attunes as quickly as Wanda did, and that Sylvia would have attuned given time (which she did not have).

Do we have any info on how long after gaining the hammer it took Stanley to attune?
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Re: Attunement

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:40 pm

I don't know, there really isn't anything to say that Judy was the odd case out. We have no information on how long it might have taken Charlie to attune, nor do we have any on Stanley (who still only seems half attuned in all honesty). Only one that we know is Wanda attuned in about 3 seconds, but she'd known she'd attune for a few... what, thousand turns? Hundreds of turns at least. She is also a Master class caster attuning to an item filled with magic, so that likely didn't hurt. And as Selexor pointed out, it looks like Sylvia might have attuned had she not gone through that whole dying thing so shortly after finding them.

So, yeah, it seems like taking time might be the norm, and Wanda was a strange exception (as she is in almost every respect imaginable). Fate could also have been involved. If she hadn't been able to Decrypt right then and there, GK wouldn't have had the massive army that it did, JS would have been able to mount a proper counter-attack, FAQ would have been properly established, etc. End result is they may not have been able to advance to anywhere near the point they are now. Remember that the decrypted archons also allowed Stanley to increase his Dwagon output significantly. If they hadn't had all those Dwagons, they couldn't have taken Spacerock. So yeah, may have been Fate throwing in something as much as anything else.

P.S. What is the significance of Charlie and Blair being alive at the same time?
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Re: Attunement

Postby Werebiscuit » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:17 am

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:P.S. What is the significance of Charlie and Blair being alive at the same time?

The significance of Charlie and Blair being alive at the same time is that both were able to attune to the arkendish... Charlie on Blair's death.
The answer was in response to Intocabille_CZ 's question. (question bolded and underlined for clarity)

Intocabille_CZ wrote:I have another question about theory of atunement.

Do you think that there can be more than one unit at any given time atuned to specific arkentool? Like Wanda to the pliers. Do you think there can be another unit able to atune at the moment? Or does the Erfworld need to wait for Wanda´s death before Fate will pop another aune-able unit for the pliers? Can an arkentool have several atuned users at a time or new atunement will overwrite the old one till the other unit touches the tool again (if it is possible there are more atune-able units at the time)
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