Book 2 – Page 108

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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Lor » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:56 pm

balder wrote:http://www.erfworld.com/2013/04/book-2-%e2%80%93-page-108/ is up. And I just want to comment that this page was written months ago and was not changed in response to anything said in Reactions. :lol:



Ah, man. And here I just logged in to jokingly say that I figured out the powers of the Arkendish -- it tunes Charlie into the forums. :p

Oh well.
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Wamba: Well, when I heard Normans were approaching I ran to lock up my wife. But, she'd also heard they were approaching, and locked me up instead.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Drasha » Wed May 01, 2013 12:08 am

I think his odds on casting the scroll on him self are going to be interesting. 100% chance and he figures out he must be a caster or some thing. 0% chance and he figures it must be fate and casts it any ways causing it to back fire horribly or transport him to the magic kingdom or some thing crazy.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby ManaCaster » Wed May 01, 2013 12:14 am

Infidel wrote:If Wanda could cast whatever dirtamancy spell is necessary, and If Parson can cast, then Parson could maybe cast the dirtamancy spell too. Since it was said somewhere every caster has some ability to cast out of specialty.

Sure, but he's only level two, it would be his first spell, and doing something like putting out a full fledged inferno would be really difficult for a non-specialist. He wouldn't be able to do anything better with Dirtamancy than delay it.

Of course, just by being a caster, that opens up new options. Janis said he's a Hippiemancer, which makes sense given her reasons for organizing his summoning. I doubt a Dateamancer could do anything about a fire, but if he's a Florist, he might have some variation of the non-engagement spell to protect them, or if he's a Signamancer, it might open up some special insight no one could have reasonably guessed at otherwise.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby name lips » Wed May 01, 2013 12:27 am

I don't think he's a "Caster" any more than he is a "Unit." Remember, he doesn't have stats, he doesn't seem to belong in Erfworld at all... Sometimes the rules seem to apply to him, and sometimes they don't. He declared himself a Player, whatever that means.

At any rate, I doubt he will use the scroll. Parson has been put in a lose-lose scenario, with Charlie going through great lengths to remind him that he has only two choices.

He could have just shut up and let Parson make his own decisions. He didn't. He wants to make sure Parson is thinking only of the two options.

There are many, many other possibilities:

Stanley could, in fact, move the Capital. That much of the message did get through, after all. Also, Parson doesn't need direct lines of communication to issue an order -- remember the ability of commanders to give orders silently through natural thinkamancy?
Parson could start a new Side, and find some way to convert or destroy the remaining GK units.
Wanda could start a new Side, and Parson could join her, gaining the aid of the decrypted units in taking the city.
He could disband the units in the city. It's not specifically stated that a CW can do this, but remember Slately allowed his CW complete control over production and military matters. It fact, in the field, it seemed that Antium was in complete control of his Side, even having the power to end the turn.
Parson could find a way to get Move -- such as allying with another side that hasn't gone yet this turn.
Heck, he could ally with Jetstone. Trem is a diplomat, and willing to listen to deals and negotiations in a way his father wasn't.
He could attempt to exploit real-world physics to the situation. By the rules, an Inferno simply destroys every unit in the hex and converts it to the Ash terrain type (right?). That is to say, it shouldn't be possible to survive the Inferno, no matter what he does. But what if he does it anyway?
This is just an off-the-wall suggestion -- what if he orders a red dwagon to eat him? He might take damage from the stomach, but if it's simply a damage-over-time effect it might allow him to survive until the Inferno is completed. Badly hurt is better than dead.
Parson could decide that if Charlie thinks he has the power to use a scroll, maybe he has the power to create or edit scrolls too. Maybe he'll whip out a pen and change the spell -- cross out "home" and write "Gobwin Knob."
Is Ace dead? If he's simply captured, he could be convinced to Turn and do something dramatic, like make a fire-proof cloak or something.

edit:
He could use the Mathamancy bracer, and ask it "what is the likelihood of there being a way out of this other than the two choices I'm being given?"
If Parson is a "caster" of some sort, maybe he can stop the Inferno himself.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby ManaCaster » Wed May 01, 2013 12:35 am

name lips wrote:Parson could start a new Side, and find some way to convert or destroy the remaining GK units.

It's probably possible, but that doesn't look like where the story is headed.

name lips wrote:Parson could find a way to get Move -- such as allying with another side that hasn't gone yet this turn.
Heck, he could ally with Jetstone. Trem is a diplomat, and willing to listen to deals and negotiations in a way his father wasn't.

Changing alliances does not refill move. That's why Charlescomm couldn't move out of the airfield during the battle for Gobwin Knob when Ansom rehired them.

name lips wrote:Is Ace dead? If he's simply captured, he could be convinced to Turn and do something dramatic, like make a fire-proof cloak or something.

Too late for that now. They're trapped in the portal room at this point.

name lips wrote:edit:
He could use the Mathamancy bracer, and ask it "what is the likelihood of there being a way out of this other than the two choices I'm being given?"

That would give him hope, but it wouldn't actually solve anything.

name lips wrote:If Parson is a "caster" of some sort, maybe he can stop the Inferno himself.

Yes, with the other options crossed out of the story, I'm starting to suspect that this is where its heading.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Beeskee » Wed May 01, 2013 12:37 am

Awesome update.


... I think one of the decrypted is on fire.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Tarvok » Wed May 01, 2013 12:55 am

name lips wrote:Stanley could, in fact, move the Capital. That much of the message did get through, after all. Also, Parson doesn't need direct lines of communication to issue an order -- remember the ability of commanders to give orders silently through natural thinkamancy?

I was saying this on Facebook. I'll bet that all he has to do is, in a moment of supreme frustration, shout "God boop you, Stanley! Change the capital!" and maybe it'll happen

name lips wrote:This is just an off-the-wall suggestion -- what if he orders a red dwagon to eat him? He might take damage from the stomach, but if it's simply a damage-over-time effect it might allow him to survive until the Inferno is completed. Badly hurt is better than dead.

lol, I like this idea.
name lips wrote:Parson could decide that if Charlie thinks he has the power to use a scroll, maybe he has the power to create or edit scrolls too. Maybe he'll whip out a pen and change the spell -- cross out "home" and write "Gobwin Knob."

I like this one, too.

Here's an anticlimactic possibility. He uses the scroll, returning home... but when you think about it, he's a game maker--a Titan made fwesh. He could choose to remain suspended between the real world and the game world, and use his Titanic powers to edit the world.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Beeskee » Wed May 01, 2013 1:01 am

If that scroll does just send Parson back to Stupidworld, what's to stop him from simply being summoned again? That 350k price tag may be mostly optional overall, another SPW scroll may not cost nearly that much to make. It might be even cheaper considering they know exactly who they want this time.

I'm guessing Charlie's scroll does something other than what he has stated. But Parson is all about thinking outside the box, hopefully he'll realize Charlie is trying to define his choices and look for some solution we haven't even considered.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Arky » Wed May 01, 2013 1:05 am

Charlie is trying to distract him and keep him focused ONLY on the options already on the table.

It wouldn't surprise me if the way out is for Stanley to go ahead and change the capital. If Parson has to kill all remaining Gobwin Knob units and go barbarian, well, his options for remaining free and uncaptured dim considerably. Even if Trammenis doesn't get the message to and seize back his capital, Charlie would have Archons within striking distance and Jillian can presumably get back there in one turn since she must be less than one turn's move away at the moment.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby ManaCaster » Wed May 01, 2013 1:23 am

Arky wrote:Charlie is trying to distract him and keep him focused ONLY on the options already on the table.

It wouldn't surprise me if the way out is for Stanley to go ahead and change the capital. If Parson has to kill all remaining Gobwin Knob units and go barbarian, well, his options for remaining free and uncaptured dim considerably. Even if Trammenis doesn't get the message to and seize back his capital, Charlie would have Archons within striking distance and Jillian can presumably get back there in one turn since she must be less than one turn's move away at the moment.

Wouldn't matter much. Charlie isn't interested in the city, he wants to get rid of Parson. If the portal is open, he has an easy escape route.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Doctor Foreman » Wed May 01, 2013 1:33 am

Some other options:
- Turn barbarian and surrender to Gobwin Knob for the prison break gambit, though he may now be trapped in the city.
- Demote himself to a light unit and get on a dwagon.
- Die and be decrypted. Maybe. If Wanda can get there within the turn. Which is unlikely.

I think Charlie is trying to demoralize Parson into not thinking of a way out; even if Charlie doesn't think there is a way, he may fear Parson thinking of one.

Still, at this point the only realistic way out seems to be Stanley changing the capital. Stanley told Maggie he'd blame her if this went south; if he told her Parson's plan during her chewing-out by Thinkagram, she might be able to convince him to do it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Jabberwocky » Wed May 01, 2013 1:36 am

Arky wrote: Jillian can presumably get back there in one turn since she must be less than one turn's move away at the moment.


Oh, theres a possibility. Jillian's 'screw things up' superpower. Charlie did say "Go back and see for yourself", iirc. So how about..

Jillian comes back, swoops in to capture Parson, then takes him to FAQ to be her new slice of mancake.

Scene: Ansom and Parson stuck upside down in the Megalogwiff's belly, only their heads visible. Parson turns to Ansom "Was your girlfriend serious when she said that stuff about the whip?""
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby ftl » Wed May 01, 2013 1:42 am

Oh, that would be perfect. Well, except for the part about the mancake and whips, but about Jillian screwing things up for Charlie by capturing Parson alive.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Beeskee » Wed May 01, 2013 1:48 am

I have this panicked feeling that you just called it.

I think that may be the game.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Jabberwocky » Wed May 01, 2013 1:49 am

ftl wrote:Oh, that would be perfect. Well, except for the part about the mancake and whips


But I'm already writing the fanfiction!

Jillian: "Prisoner is alert?"
Parons: "You took my underwear. You can booping well see for yourself."
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Whispri » Wed May 01, 2013 1:57 am

ManaCaster wrote:Decrypted soldiers becoming barbarians still doesn't take care of the remaining living red dwagons. He could try giving the living red dwagons long distance orders to turn, but that still leaves Transvylto's bat. He could try disbanding the bat as a prisoner I suppose, except he isn't even aware it exists. As interesting as it would be to see Parson start a new side, it looks like the entire purpose of this page was to toss away the most common theories, tempt Parson with the easy solution, and possibly hint at Parson's special.

What live red dwagons? All the reds that Sylvia was leading against Ace were decrypted.

Aquillion wrote:
Whispri wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:Well, there must be some option left other than the scroll. I mean, Fate doesn't want him to die, and using the scroll would be cheating Fate. But since the scroll is even an option, maybe this incident is meant to force him to figure out his ability as a caster.

Those Units they were just talking about? They aren't loyal to Stanley, they're loyal to Wanda. So yeah, persuade her to turn and the Portal opens.
I'm not sure that's true. Some of the Dwagons are uncroaked, but not all of them -- some were forced to the ground when Parson promoted their riders to heavies. Even if it's enough to kill the uncroaked dwagons, he'd have to persuade Wanda first (and contact her to do so, which could be tricky if Charlie has communications totally locked down.) Wanda might be persuadable if he could convince her that he still has a Fate, but that cuts both ways -- she might simply tell him that he'll survive whatever she does, because Fate.

Ah, but did any living Dwagons survive the explosion? We've seen only Decrypted examples.

Lipkin wrote:Wanda is still a GK unit, despite her low loyalty stat, and can't go Barbarian without a capitol site to claim. As she is stranded in the MK, Wanda will not be spinning off.

She has followers at Spacerock though, if she wants them to do something she just has to will it. The only obstacle to her claiming Spacerock that we know of is Parson. Possibly the bats, but if they aren't dead or in chains, I'd expect the Dwagons to be flying up to eat them.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Archaic » Wed May 01, 2013 2:50 am

ManaCaster wrote:
Infidel wrote:If Wanda could cast whatever dirtamancy spell is necessary, and If Parson can cast, then Parson could maybe cast the dirtamancy spell too. Since it was said somewhere every caster has some ability to cast out of specialty.

Sure, but he's only level two, it would be his first spell, and doing something like putting out a full fledged inferno would be really difficult for a non-specialist. He wouldn't be able to do anything better with Dirtamancy than delay it.

Of course, just by being a caster, that opens up new options. Janis said he's a Hippiemancer, which makes sense given her reasons for organizing his summoning. I doubt a Dateamancer could do anything about a fire, but if he's a Florist, he might have some variation of the non-engagement spell to protect them, or if he's a Signamancer, it might open up some special insight no one could have reasonably guessed at otherwise.


Does he need to actually put out the fire though? Simply reducing it from Inferno level would be more than sufficient. If he is a Hippemancer, I could certainly see him "calming" the fire temporarily.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Wed May 01, 2013 3:15 am

ManaCaster wrote:Decrypted soldiers becoming barbarians still doesn't take care of the remaining living red dwagons. He could try giving the living red dwagons long distance orders to turn, but that still leaves Transvylto's bat. He could try disbanding the bat as a prisoner I suppose, except he isn't even aware it exists. As interesting as it would be to see Parson start a new side, it looks like the entire purpose of this page was to toss away the most common theories, tempt Parson with the easy solution, and possibly hint at Parson's special.

If the bat were in the garrison and still alive, I don't think GK would have gotten control of Spacerock. (We don't know for sure if a city is lost when all defenders are gone or gained when one side has uncontested control, but my assumption is the latter.)

If the bat was outside the garrison, I doubt Don King could still send it orders after it became a prisoner, and as an unled scout wouldn't have the initiative (or inclination) to enter the inferno-engulfed garrison. I suppose it would have the move, though.


Regarding Parson as prisoner, I believe book 0 showed us that a turned unit must be accepted, so it seems that ordering Antium to go back to Jetstone wouldn't work, and I don't think the prisoner bat would be able to accept a prisoner, either. Moreover, escaping the hex wouldn't do Parson much good, since he'd be such a sitting duck for RCC2 + Charlie.

I like the "get swallowed by a red dwagon" idea, but he'd still have inadequate defenses against counterattack.


Jillian... That would be awesome.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Oberon » Wed May 01, 2013 3:56 am

ftl wrote:I hope his way out won't be casting the spell and then winding up back in GK, like Judy and the Arkenshoes. That would be lame; it would be getting out based on Charlie's failures.
I would love that. It's high time Charlie is shown to have a weakness or fail in a plan that doesn't involve Parson finding a way to "break" the rules.

Look at his "weaknesses" to date:

1) Lost a pile of archons in the volcano.
- As has been said a few times, trimancer link spells are so freaking potent that it is just about impossible to either predict their effects or plan against them. So, no strike against Charlie there.
2) Seems really afraid that GK/Parson will use decrypted archons to discover his secrets.
- Every secret the archons told Parson was more informative than trans-formative. Charlie didn't lose anything.
3) RCCII forbid royal sides from dealing with him.
- That didn't slow down Jillian or in the end the leading side of the RCCII coalition from dealing with him. Hell, Tram was willing to deal with Charlie when it looked to JS like JS held every card, so how rigid was that prohibition, anyway? Charlie probably has contracts with most or all of the remaining RCCII sides as well.
4) Inconsistent Minds which Change Their Minds don't like him.
- Has caused him problems by sparking the creation of the Parson summoning scroll, otherwise no real threat since Charlie can do anything conceivable regarding thinkamancy. Actually brought him more business in TBfGK than it would have otherwise.
5) Stanley hates him.
- So what? That didn't keep Wanda from saying that CharlesComm was the last side that GK would ever go up against, because Charlie is an attuned 'tool owner.

I'd love to see Charlie make a real mistake. So far, he's the Mary Sue of this story. He has any power he needs, when he needs it. This continues to go tiredly on and on even in the past two strips, assuming Charlie has something to do with the cancellation of Maggie's thinkagram and the reason the Tool isn't on the Eyebook communication. His only potential foil has been Parson, and Parson has only really managed to stay alive himself and keep GK alive, not to really harm Charlie in any significant way. Parson is an irritant to Charlie, nothing more. Hell, Parson is the reason Charlie was hired by JS twice in book 1, bringing him more income!
Charlie only fears Parson due to his potential to be more than an irritant, not due to any real impact Parson has had on Charlie to date.

Ansan Gotti wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:Not necessarily. It could just be his idea of mercy for a respected foe.

Yeah, see, that doesn't feel like Charlie AT ALL to me. Spend a ton of resources on a scroll, just for the sake of showing honor to a guy who toasted dozens of his precious archons?

Can't see it at all, but of course YMMV.
You're right, it isn't like Charlie. But it is like Charlie to try to make it seem that way when it's down to last options. Remember, Charlie hoped Parson would use the scroll before he even entered Spacerock.

Arky wrote:Charlie is trying to distract him and keep him focused ONLY on the options already on the table.

It wouldn't surprise me if the way out is for Stanley to go ahead and change the capital.
This is possible. Perhaps via 'natural' thinkamancy. Parson did say in 107 "I'll order him [Stanley] if I have t-" right before Charlie jumped into the Eyebook chat.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108

Postby Lipkin » Wed May 01, 2013 4:17 am

New theory. The scroll summons the Arkenshoes, and must be cast by or on Parson, because it has to use Parson to tap into Stupidworld. Once the shoes are summoned, if Parson attuned, he'd have unlimited move.
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