Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

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Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby danielkaplan123 » Wed May 01, 2013 9:25 am

As Charlie expects Parson can cast his own spell to go home, does that mean Charlie suspects Parson is a caster?

Charlie started by asking if Parson tried casting the spell to 'hypothetically return home' on himself. Then Charlie requests that Parson 'figure out the odds of success for casting that spell on [him]self' via one of Parson's owed Calculations. As the request for the Calculation came after Charlies request, it would appear to be more to convince Parson it is possible than for Charlie. If anything, it would appear to be charity (or sympathy) on Charlie's part.

Note: charity or sympathy from a known high ranking Carnymancer, as Charlie is, is an interesting thing to contemplate. Perhaps Charlie (given the situation) wants to know himself at this point IF Parson is a caster. This would appear an oddly motivated discovery on Charlie's part because that opens up a new can of worms for Charlie...then again Charlie is known to be odd.

If so, what type of caster is Parson?

I posted long, long ago on the Parson wiki page about evidence observed in the storylines that Parson may be a natural Signamancer. http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Parson_Gotti#Parson_the_Signamancer

Wondered what other evidence (for/against) people observed?
Last edited by danielkaplan123 on Thu May 02, 2013 1:03 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby wih » Wed May 01, 2013 2:32 pm

Do we know the upkeep cost of Casters, especially compared to Warlords? Is it possible that his high upkeep is due to the fact he is either a caster (as opposed to a Warlord, which could explain the low leadership), or a hybrid Warlord/Caster?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby dwp222 » Wed May 01, 2013 4:23 pm

1) He can enter the Magic Kingdom.
2) Didn't Janis (?) say in book 1 that he was a Hippiemancer?

Sounds like a caster to me.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby Doctor Foreman » Wed May 01, 2013 4:31 pm

wih wrote:Do we know the upkeep cost of Casters, especially compared to Warlords? Is it possible that his high upkeep is due to the fact he is either a caster (as opposed to a Warlord, which could explain the low leadership), or a hybrid Warlord/Caster?

It could also be that he's twice the size of the other humanoids.

dwp222 wrote:1) He can enter the Magic Kingdom.
2) Didn't Janis (?) say in book 1 that he was a Hippiemancer?

Sounds like a caster to me.

1. Things other than casters can enter the Magic Kingdom. I wouldn't take it as proof that he's a caster.
2. Janis could well have been lying to prevent the casters from croaking Parson.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Wed May 01, 2013 4:36 pm

One reason Charlie might want to know if Parson is a caster is that it would increase the possibility that Parson could be kept out of warlording (at least temporarily) by keeping him occupied with conducting experiments and teaching the scientific method in the MK. And if he levels up as a caster, and goes from Novice to Adept, people might start thinking of him differently and employing him differently.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby Shai_hulud » Wed May 01, 2013 10:27 pm

dwp222 wrote:2) Didn't Janis (?) say in book 1 that he was a Hippiemancer?
Janis confirmed in this text update that the summoning spell was supposed to Look for a Hippiemancer specifically.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby danielkaplan123 » Thu May 02, 2013 12:24 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:
dwp222 wrote:2) Didn't Janis (?) say in book 1 that he was a Hippiemancer?
Janis confirmed in this text update that the summoning spell was supposed to Look for a Hippiemancer specifically.

Good catch Shai_hulud! Janis doesn't actually say "that the summoning spell was supposed to for a Hippiemancer specifically", but she does allude to that idea on that page...
Janet quoting Marie wrote:Marie would know. At the roots of it, this was her plan. "What Hippiemancy neeeeds, Jonnis my true friend, is da one thin it con't evah have. A warlord. A souljah!"

:idea: I suppose that statement could also be interpreted as "Hippiemancy needs Parson" and yet Parson may not necessarily be a Hippiemancer. So more evidence is needed...keep it coming.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Thu May 02, 2013 5:11 pm

On the other hand, that the spell was crafted to summon the Warlord who is Perfect for the purposes of an MK conspiracy that opposes, and is well-informed about, Charlie, makes it more plausible that the spell granted Parson the ability to enter the MK so that they could talk with him without relying on thinkagrams.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri May 03, 2013 1:35 am

http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_87
Parson: And you're saying that's why I'm here in Erfworld at all?
Isaac: Mm. Well...
It is why we allowed the summoning spell to be created. Other parties had other interests.*


*Emphasis added by me.

Janis wrote:Hubble (the Lookamancer in the link-up) knew, but he was no trouble.


What I am saying is that Janis believes he is a Hippiemancer, because that is what she wanted the Lookamancer Hubble to look for.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby technojunkie » Sun May 05, 2013 12:26 am

Shai_hulud wrote:What I am saying is that Janis believes he is a Hippiemancer, because that is what she wanted the Lookamancer Hubble to look for.


Except that if you look at the casting of the actual spell, Hubble was not the one selecting the target. The final selection was made by Wanda at the Tool's direction. All Hubble contributed was the lookamancy portion of the spell that allowed Wanda to find a target.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby Shai_hulud » Sun May 05, 2013 1:35 am

Right, but Wanda was "in" on the "plan" too according to Janis, since Marie picked Wanda, and the "plan" was Marie's idea to begin with. So Janis would have no reason to think the plan has gone off the rails. I'm not saying he is a Hippiemancer, I'm only saying it wasn't just something Janis made up, she really thinks it's true. Keep in mind this conversation pathway started to branch off from the OP because of the argument that Janis may have been lying.(See post above by Doctor Foreman*) She can still be wrong, she just isn't lying. That's all I'm trying to claim. Sorry if this has drifted so far that my point wasn't clear anymore.



*
Doctor Foreman wrote:2. Janis could well have been lying to prevent the casters from croaking Parson.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby kefkakrazy » Mon May 06, 2013 10:45 pm

My reading of the text in the LIAB 37 page doesn't necessarily support (or specifically deny) the Parson=Hippiemancer idea. The only line I was able to find that seemed to allude to this was...

Marie would know. At the roots of it, this was her plan. "What Hippiemancy neeeeds, Jonnis my true friend, is da one thin it con't evah have. A warlord. A souljah!"

It must have taken thirty turns before Marie had wrapped Janis' head around the idea of a warlord who would fight against war itself, and another twenty before she could imagine one who might be good enough to win.


My interpretation, honestly, is that the Predictamancer/Hippiemancer side of the Caster Conspiracy Clusterf%*& intended for the Perfect Warlord to be someone willing and able to end war on Erf. The Hippiemancers under Janis want a warless Erfworld as an endgame goal; Parson is a fairly unique confluence of traits that make this potentially possible.

Parson is skilled enough to be a dangerous force, clever enough to truly break Erfworld's rules and achieve their goals, and most importantly compassionate enough not to abuse it. A weaker, lesser man could fall into some brutal temptation. An outright evil person with Parson's talents could... well, could produce a really, really bad thing. (Consider someone entirely willing, as Parson is not, to Order units around out of sheer spite, vanity, etc, in control of enough of Erfworld to, for example, "end war" by causing a permanent stalemate between his own side and the entire rest of Erfworld? Scary)

I still really doubt that Parson is a Hippiemancer and believe Janis was blatantly lying, but I suppose the possibility still exists. I'm more apt to believe that Parson not autofragging on the portal was a result of him being an anomaly in Erfworld.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby danielkaplan123 » Tue May 07, 2013 12:38 am

I still really doubt that Parson is a Hippiemancer and believe Janis was blatantly lying, but I suppose the possibility still exists. I'm more apt to believe that Parson not autofragging on the portal was a result of him being an anomaly in Erfworld.


I tend to agree this is an option. If you're interested in reading - I noted it right under the first article back in 2009 - yeesh 4 years ago
http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Parson_Gotti#How_was_Parson_able_to_get_into_the_Magic_Kingdom.3F
Related to the fact that he is Special and also didn't disband when disobeying a direct order from Stanley.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby tigerusthegreat » Tue May 07, 2013 9:25 am

As much as I hate thinking it, as it would interfere with my Prehendo Victoria story, I think he is a retconjurer. Carnymancy bends rules, but retconjuration breaks them entirely.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby drachefly » Tue May 07, 2013 9:48 am

I'd bet at 20:1 against that. Want in on that?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby tigerusthegreat » Tue May 07, 2013 11:18 pm

drachefly wrote:I'd bet at 20:1 against that. Want in on that?


No bet, because I'm hoping I am dead wrong.

But in reality the only reason to remove an entire type of casting, and change it to something else is if you are going to have someone be that type of caster....or if you are just trying to make a joke.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby Doctor Foreman » Wed May 08, 2013 12:51 am

tigerusthegreat wrote:
But in reality the only reason to remove an entire type of casting, and change it to something else is if you are going to have someone be that type of caster....or if you are just trying to make a joke.


Only if you're thinking from a plot-based perspective. It's entirely legitimate to put it in as a theoretical anomaly a la Tom Bombadil, to add mystery and texture to the setting.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby Octavian » Thu May 09, 2013 12:30 am

If Charlie is, indeed, a Carnymancer as revealed by the text updates from a biased, second-hand observer, it likely doesn't matter if Parson is a caster or not. Carnymancers can rig the game to their liking, so it's very well likely Charlie or his Carnymancer minions constructed the scroll so that anyone could cast it as though they were a caster.

Even if Parson reads the scroll and casts the spell, we can't be really sure he's a caster b/c of the Carnymancy cheat.

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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby bladestorm » Thu May 09, 2013 11:20 am

Octavian wrote:If Charlie is, indeed, a Carnymancer as revealed by the text updates from a biased, second-hand observer, it likely doesn't matter if Parson is a caster or not. Carnymancers can rig the game to their liking, so it's very well likely Charlie or his Carnymancer minions constructed the scroll so that anyone could cast it as though they were a caster.

Even if Parson reads the scroll and casts the spell, we can't be really sure he's a caster b/c of the Carnymancy cheat.

Carnies - small hands, smell of cabbage.

Or it could be that scrolls can be used by anyone. The mechanic could be similar to how units get a stack bonus up to eight for the stack, so almost no one ever uses a stack over eight. Scroll could be usable by anyone, but casters get a bonus. With no bonus, no reason to use it.

In most systems where a bonus is applied for one class, but the bonus is lacking in another class, the bonus is viewed as the standard, and units without that bonus are so substandard that they are just being punished for their mere existence. Example: Scroll of Shockamancy, does 1 HP of damage when used, in the hands of a caster, they get an additional HP per caster level. So a level 5 caster can do 6 HP of damage with the scroll, which is enough to wipe Jack Snipe off the playing field in one use, or do half of Bogroll's total hp. In the hands of a non-caster, the 1 HP blast bounces off anyone that isn't already beat down and they continue on with the fight. Basic perception, the scroll is useful in the hands of a caster, but in the hands of a regular unit, it is nerfed so badly it is all but useless. Economically, you could spend the funds to equip six different non-casters with the scroll and the damage would add up, or you could just use one scroll with your caster, and get the same effect. Using non-caster units with scrolls would be something a player would do when they want to play around with different options, not something a unit would do when trying to maximize efficiency to ensure their own survival.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 108 - Charlie considers Parson a caster?

Postby tigerusthegreat » Thu May 09, 2013 4:51 pm

Well, Parson has to be caster-like enough to enter the Magic Kingdom. Charlie had no way of knowing that Parson would blow up GK or try to enter the Magic Kingdom originally, so he could not have rigged the game to allow Parson in....not to say that the Predictamancers and company who made the summoning spell didn't do something to make him able to enter the Magic Kingdom without being a caster.


Now that I think about it, we have only two updates that specifically mention the portal and its effects on non-casters....and a very specific set of non-casters: Rulers. In one, the Ruler destroys her whole side by entering the portal and disbanding herself, and in this last update, the Tool contemplates the same. We really have no hard data on whether entering the portal is deadly to non-ruler, non-caster units, and only one case where it did disband a ruler, but she wanted to be disbanded (and arguably, as a unit of her side, she could disband herself with a thought, just like she could disband any units under her command)
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