Book 2 – Text Updates 059

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby MarbitChow » Tue May 21, 2013 8:45 am

Lilwik wrote:Even if you assume that's going to happen, there's still no better choice than relying on Like Reality Unless Noted, because otherwise you are just doing wild speculation. Like Reality Unless Noted has the best chance of being correct in any situation, no matter how strange.
Everything we do on these boards is wild speculation. :D The author has spent time explaining every single detail about Erfworld. The only things I've seen that work the way they do "In Reality" (as in, similar to our world) is sex, eating, and crapping. But food 'just appears', sex has no procreative value, and crapping is a source of units. Even the most basic details needed to be explained.

I'll make you a deal: for every reference of something in Erfworld that works the way it works in our reality that you can find, that the author mentions but doesn't add details about (in other words, he assumes we know what it is), and I'll name 3 things that had to be explained. If I run out of things before you do, you win.

Erfworld is Nothing Like Our Reality. It has almost nothing in common with our world. It has a *great deal* in common with how a world that was based off of games in our world would work, however. But you can't remotely claim that means it's 'like our reality'.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby themysticalone » Tue May 21, 2013 10:30 am

Oberon wrote:You see Parson not walking around a city, and that city for no rational reason producing less income.


That's one of the things that is noted as being different from reality.

Oberon wrote:You see arrows shot at a hex border 'sticking' in mid-air.


That's also one of the things that is noted as being different from reality.

Oberon wrote:You see Jillian wielding a sword which she could not possibly use on Earth due to its mass compared to hers.


Yet again, one of the things that is noted as being different from reality.

Oberon wrote:You see TV residents flying without even being on a fantastic mount which couldn't support flight.


Another thing that is noted as being different from reality.

Oberon wrote:And you see people riding fantastic mounts which couldn't support flight on their own, much less with a rider. Etc., etc.


Another... well, you see where I'm going here, I suspect.


We can still use reality as a basis of similarity (likeness), while expecting some rule set that modifies it a little bit to fit in a game-like environment. Some things get modified a lot... and thus get noted.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby effataigus » Tue May 21, 2013 10:58 am

themysticalone wrote:
Oberon wrote:You see Parson not walking around a city, and that city for no rational reason producing less income.


That's one of the things that is noted as being different from reality.

Oberon wrote:You see arrows shot at a hex border 'sticking' in mid-air.


That's also one of the things that is noted as being different from reality.

Oberon wrote:You see Jillian wielding a sword which she could not possibly use on Earth due to its mass compared to hers.


Yet again, one of the things that is noted as being different from reality.

Oberon wrote:You see TV residents flying without even being on a fantastic mount which couldn't support flight.


Another thing that is noted as being different from reality.

Oberon wrote:And you see people riding fantastic mounts which couldn't support flight on their own, much less with a rider. Etc., etc.


Another... well, you see where I'm going here, I suspect.


We can still use reality as a basis of similarity (likeness), while expecting some rule set that modifies it a little bit to fit in a game-like environment. Some things get modified a lot... and thus get noted.

Only the first two things on your list were actually noted. Nobody said "Yes, Jillian is actually using a giant sword because Erfworld" or "Yes Archons can fly without mounts because Erfworld" or anything about it being weird that marbits or megalos fly. These are all things that just are, and no special point has been made about them for our benefit. We're just assumed to be able to dig the fact that Erfworld isn't like Earth. In fact, we only inherently get these things because we have cultural reference points that are distinct from Earth where other authors have already pointed these things out for us. Hence, I don't think any of us are actually using Earth as our reference point, but rather an amalgamation of every sci fy, fantasy, internet meme, videogame, and pun we've ever known... if the bulk happens to have some similarities with Earth then we should not feign surprise, as many of those components are Earth based.

I think the point about drowning was well made. We know nothing about how it works, but I would assume that it would NOT work like it does on Earth. On that note, we only have a vague idea about Erfworld sex. Parson might be in for a rude shock if he ever walks that road.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Kreistor » Tue May 21, 2013 11:12 am

bladestorm wrote:
Kreistor wrote:
bladestorm wrote: All your work is, to me, completely useless, since it can be inconsistent.

Okay, bye.

The quoted part there was actually your words. Maybe you don't even remember writing them in the earlier post that was quoted from. Would be kinda easy to forget such little details while fumbling around to protect a shoddy theory. :roll:


Bladestorm wrote:Just providing your theory the same treatment you provided other theories that were offered. Except I didn't use caps to tell you how badly your theory sucked.


You are either done with me, or you aren't. I am done with Drach entirely and will no longer recognize his opinion-based objections to my theories, which is what that quote is about. You are trying to twist that into a dismissal of Drach's theories themselves, which is an out-of-context application of my complaint. If you are throwing that quote at me, you are done with me, too.

Perhaps an anecdote will make you understand.

my childhood wrote:My father had a policy. Since I was the oldest, and male, any physical conflict with my younger sisters was my fault. Older, wiser, and a boy, if there was any physical violence, it was my fault. I should be able to avoid it, shouldn't I?

One day, about age 12, my 11 year-old sister (and since puberty hits girls first, larger than me at the time) sat down beside me as I played with my Lego. (Yeah, no hints I'd be an Engineer at all.) After a minute or two, she turned and slugged me hard on the shoulder. I just pushed her away (relatively gently), and said, "Quit it," and tried to play with my Lego again.

She slugged me again, harder and laughing about it. So, I had no choice: I wrestled her back. I wasn't that much smaller, and I was a better fighter. That's what she wanted, of course.

Moments later, *stomp*stomp* "What's going on down here?" my father shouted as he descended the stairs. "Both of you to your rooms!"

"But dad," I protested.

"To your rooms!"

So I did. Grabbed a book, started reading, as I always did. Books were my retreat, and I was perfectly happy alone and reading.

Dad came in after about three minutes. "Chris, I saw the whole thing. I was sitting at the top of the stairs. She hit you for absolutely no reason. There was nothing you could do to stop it, and she left you no choice in how to deal with her. I'm sorry. I won't assume you're at fault anymore. This happened because I created the environment where she could do anything she wanted to you and you'd get punished for it. You can leave your room if you want. I'm sorry."


It is easy to victimize someone. All you need to do is find a reason to make others think your target deserves to be hurt. I watch for it everywhere, and I see it in this community. You have decided that because of my methods, anything anyone does to me is fine. I deserve it.

When you've shut off your brain, you create victims.

I'm done with Drach. I've seen enough to know that he is looking for a victim, not trying to reasonably discuss issues. I'm not attacking people. I'm attacking ideas. You confuse that with attacking people, because you don't like my language or style. Maybe Drach thinks I need to be driven out. I dunno his motivations, but Drach isn't attacking ideas now, he's attacking me. He hides it well, but that last stretch was the final evidence I needed to know what he is. You're not looking at it, because you've decided that I deserve anything I get. I can't be victimized, because I hurt people? False on its face.

Whenever you say, "He deserves it," you have fallen to prejudice and created a victim. Vigilance about your own attitudes towards people is the only defense against prejudicial creation of victims.

So, are you done with me as you implied? I can and will respond on your issues, but if you're done, then stop engaging me. Engagement invites defense. I can't defend if you don't engage. And I will not accept that particular interpretation of my complaints wrt Drach, because they are inaccurate and out of context.
http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/TBFGK_1 Here you can find all comic pages written as text for convenient quoting.

http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Erfworld_Mechanics The starting page for accessing all known Erfworld "rules".
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby MarbitChow » Tue May 21, 2013 11:15 am

themysticalone wrote:We can still use reality as a basis of similarity (likeness), while expecting some rule set that modifies it a little bit to fit in a game-like environment. Some things get modified a lot... and thus get noted.
"A little bit"? Almost every basic process of life has been shown to behave differently in Erfworld. Fundamental physics works differently: Parson's garrison vs. non-garrison status makes it easier to CLIMB THE STAIRS. TIME works differently; not just between hexes, but nighttime arrives when the ruler decides to end the turn.

I challenge you to start making a list of things that are the same in Erfworld as they are in our reality. The argument that "everything is the same except that which has been shown to be different" doesn't work in Erfworld, because we're only seeing the things that are different that pertain to the story at hand. But Parson's Klogs hint that there are reams of rules that haven't even been hinted at yet - Parson knows them, but we don't. And Parson is still finding out how things work.

Almost every single element of any importance has been shown to be different. I love that you guys seem to think you can draw conclusions about Erfworld reality based on ours, because you sound EXACTLY like the Monty Python scene in Life of Brian that starts out "What have Romans ever done for us?" - You say that Erfworld is Like Reality, but the books produce REAMS of points where Erfworld is not like reality at all, and you go "Well, yes, but aside from that, it's just like our reality." :lol:
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Mikalyaran » Tue May 21, 2013 11:21 am

Parson knew about as much about fire as he remembered from fire safety month in elementary school, and the occasional Weather Channel show about firefighters. He knew that fire burned upwards, and you should stay low. It needed oxygen and could, like, flashover or something. Whatever that was, it was bad. That was about it.

And who knew if any of that was even true in Erfworld, which had its own fire physics?


How are we arguing about whether or not the real world can be trusted as a model. In so far as "not burning to death in a fire" is concerned we can't use it. If we can't trust it for that what cn we really? The main character in comic doesn't think it can be trusted and he is living it. So....who wants pie?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby effataigus » Tue May 21, 2013 1:55 pm

Kreistor wrote:...
Hahah, nice story. I hope you can see that you, as ever, are playing the role of your sister. You start off being a jerk, wait for a rebuke, and then start playing the victim. We've seen the cycle enough times now.

If you are wondering why your original post on this forum thread was criticized for being speculative when speculative is generally a good thing here, consider the times in forums of yore that you have dismissed and insulted other peoples' theories for being exactly that. I restrained myself before, but I'm not surprised other forumites were too tempted to let the opportunity to point out your hypocrisy slide. That said, your theory is sufficiently far out there that I have doubts that it was genuine rather than a calculated post designed to elicit (Edited for spelling) the response it got.

Am I victimizing the victim by claiming that he wanted to be the victim all along? Maybe, but I doubt it, and I hope for his sake I'm right. I hope he is trolling rather than a less garden variety of disturbed.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby ftl » Tue May 21, 2013 2:53 pm

effataigus wrote:I think the point about drowning was well made. We know nothing about how it works, but I would assume that it would NOT work like it does on Earth.


I mean, I think we know enough about Erfworld to take a good guess!

I'd be willing to guess that it works SIMILAR to earth in that if you're in water, you drown if you can't swim. Except in Erfworld, it's rulesified - instead of being governed by physics, it's governed by whether a unit has the appropriate Specials to be able to swim, water might deal Damage or croak instantly, etc. Superficially similar but different in the way it works.

Note how, when Ansom thought that Ossomer was going to attack Spacerock with infantry and siege, he defended a bridge against them. Nobody batted an eye at that - we didn't need detailed exposition for why, exactly, an army of infantry can't just walk across the river. Because it's obvious - trying to ford a river with a large army would result in your army being swept away and/or drowning. THAT'S what is meant by "Like Reality Unless Noted". If there's ever a story reason why the details of that matter, like when Parson wants to break it somehow, then we'll hear about it.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby effataigus » Tue May 21, 2013 3:08 pm

ftl wrote:Note how, when Ansom thought that Ossomer was going to attack Spacerock with infantry and siege, he defended a bridge against them. Nobody batted an eye at that - we didn't need detailed exposition for why, exactly, an army of infantry can't just walk across the river. Because it's obvious - trying to ford a river with a large army would result in your army being swept away and/or drowning. THAT'S what is meant by "Like Reality Unless Noted". If there's ever a story reason why the details of that matter, like when Parson wants to break it somehow, then we'll hear about it.
We can find a million ways in which Erfworld is like Earth and some number of ways in which it isn't. The question is to what degree can we use Earth as a basis to make inferences in the absence of other information. I'd argue that using Earth to assume that there would be a consequence for trying to pass a land army through a river is fine. However, I'd argue that we could not say the consequences are the risk of drowning, rusting armor, and spoiled rations even though these are problems an army would face on Earth. What seems more likely to me is some sort of barrier like "off turn airborne units in a hostile city cannot land" that prevents land units from even attempting to cross into a water hex.

The question becomes how applicable is the model to the situation. In the case of predictamancy and fate (to which the rule was being applied), which is something that there is evidence for in Erfworld and scant evidence for on Earth, I'd argue that the "like Earth" rule is not a good choice for filling in blanks.

Instead, I've been advocating filling in the blanks with something similar to what you suggest:
I mean, I think we know enough about Erfworld to take a good guess!
Put another way, we should stop using "Like Reality Unless Otherwise Noted" to apply to ideas for which otherwise has been oft noted, and use "Like Erfworld unless noted" when it has not.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Not Me » Tue May 21, 2013 3:39 pm

Just want to note a few things that came to mind when reading this update.

* The "number" (as in not a zero) as a result when asking about him casting dirtamancy to put out the fire reminded me of this update. Parson doesn't have the "Dirtamancer special" but could still cast Dirtamancy at terrible odds. Is this conclusive that he is a Caster? Not sure, but everything so far points to it (not only here but all throughout the story). What I think it's safe to assume is that he has the ability to cast, even without a scroll to read from.

* Maybe it was a typo and I'm reading too much into this, but another thing that caught my eye is the following:

specify target

“Me!”


“Odds of me casting this spell!” he shouted at the bracer.
The same number as before flashed, then changed to: 0.0


If the odds of him casting the spell (without specific target) are the same number as the odds of him casting it on himself, why would the bracer ask to specify a target in the first place? If the spell is designed to only be casted on Parson (as Jojo intended to), the bracer shouldn't be asking. And if the spell can be casted on some other target I would have expected the numbers would be different between specifying and not specifying the target upon which he intends to cast. Specially if Fate was involved in the 0.0 results as many (including myself) believe.

* The way the bracer worked

The window showed a long decimal number, then blinked and showed a short one instead. Then it ran through a series of digits that changed every split second. Then it went blank.


reminded me of a computer doing calculations on an iterative process until it reaches the final result. If that is the case, as many people are saying, it wouldn't be too far-fetched that the first number is the result of the iterations until the bracer includes Fate into the equation (which would be the last step of the iterations) and that is why it switches from 98% to 0.0.
Also strange about this is that even though Parson doesn't seem to be a Dirtamancer, he has the odd chance (about 1 in a million) of casting Dirtamancy to put out the fire, yet he has 0.0 chance of casting that scroll. So I would expect that implies that the problem here is not the inability of Parson to cast the scroll, but that there is a 100% chance that someone or something will stop him if he tries to cast it.
One other thing about what I've read from people saying the bracer or Pasron's perception has been tampered, if we go by what we know form Stupid World maths there are equations that can give more than one answer so maybe the "equation that models the scenario Parson is asking about" looks something similar to our quadratic equations and in this case Fate (or however you may want to call it) is the reason why both those results are given. If Parson "beats Fate" he gets 98% chance, if he doesn't "beat Fate" he gets 0% chance. And for whatever reason the bracer is not "sophisticated enough" to predict if Parson will "beat Fate" right now or not.


* One other thing that went through my mind with this update relates with Charlie's intent in spending a calculation for this. Reminded me of this and this update.
Charlie knows that those calculations are valuable and that Parson can gain from performing them for Charlie. So why would Charlie spend a calculation to teach Parson that he can cast?
He couldn't do it "for free" or Parson wouldn't believe it. And it seems Charlie gains nothing from Parson learning he can cast. Quite on the contrary it looks like something Charlie wouldn't want to hint Parson on. So why spend a calculation on that?

My tin foil here is that there is a pretty heavy plot between Charlie and Fate and Parson is the Wild Card in it.
First of all, Charlie (together with Haffaton) arranged for a Summon Perfect Warlord spell to defeat the sisters and get the Arkendish. After that he got some predictamancy telling him that a Stupidworlder would destroy him and he thought he had fulfilled that prediction with Judy. When another Stupidworlder came in he was not thinking on that prediction, but when Parson survived the battle for Gobwin Knob the way he did, Charlie started paying more attention and got more Predictamancy casted on Parson. He learned that Parson will be the one who takes Charlie down, but also the one who will eventually "breaks/beats Fate". So Charlie is pushing for Parson to "rebel against Fate" before he gets to destroying Charlie hoping that Parson breaking Fate will nullify the other prediction (Charlie is trying to go with the "very easy way" but will end up getting the "very hard way").
What Charlie is trying to do with spending this calculation is to get Parson to acknowledge how much "Fate" is controlling his actions and his free will so Parson focuses on "destroying Fate" instead of "destroying Charlie".
So "Fate" is trying to get Parson to destroy Charlie (mainly through the GMTTA) and Charlie is trying to "rig the game" and get Parson to destroy "Fate".
Parson will finally realize this at the end of Book 2 and since he consideres himself a "player" and not a "piece" that these "two GMs are manipulating", Book 3 will be him going against both Charlie and "Fate" and destroy both :mrgreen:
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Oberon » Tue May 21, 2013 4:03 pm

MarbitChow wrote:The author has spent time explaining every single detail about Erfworld.
Um, no he hasn't. He has explained a lot, but usually the things he explains are those which are required as foreshadowing for the story in the future, or as an explanation for something we've just seen. There is still a huge amount that has yet to be explained before we can even say we are comfortably familiar with Erfworld. Almost every new comic or text update expands our knowledge about how Erfworld differs from Stupidworld.

themysticalone wrote:That's one of the things that is noted as being different from reality. [repeated X5]

Another... well, you see where I'm going here, I suspect.

We can still use reality as a basis of similarity (likeness), while expecting some rule set that modifies it a little bit to fit in a game-like environment. Some things get modified a lot... and thus get noted.
No, I don't see where you're going. Of course every example I give is one in which "is noted as being different from reality", or I wouldn't know about it in order to cite it.

We really can't use reality as a basis of similarity in this context. Things are just too different, and we learn more and more about how they differ all the time.

Did you assume that climbing stairs was a trivial act, just as it is in Stupidworld? If you did, were you surprised to learn that getting a promotion (garrison to field) makes stairs easier to climb?

Did you assume that fire worked like it did on Stupidworld, before we saw updates that made it clear that it was very different indeed?

On fire:
Parson - Text Updates 059 wrote:And who knew if any of that was even true in Erfworld, which had its own fire physics? Units caught in an inferno took damage randomly and could take a few specific actions like fleeing, fighting, and casting. There were damage penalties when moving, fighting was done at a penalty, etc. Some of it didn’t make a lot of sense with the actual physics of combustion.

And:
Parson - Text Updates 059 wrote:units taking action to fight the fire could effectively transfer their actions to a unit they were protecting.


Almost nothing like Stupidworld, except for being a means to kill people (units).

Kreistor wrote:I am done with Drach entirely and will no longer recognize his opinion-based objections to my theories [...]
You also seem to be "done" with my factual annihilation of your theories. Please see my rebuttal to your misuse of Occam's Razor (which makes it difficult to believe you're an engineer. Sanitation, perhaps?) if you'd like a perfect example. So please stop trying to have your cake and eat it, too. You tend to ignore anyone who refutes you in a way which isn't able to be countered, and ramble on aimlessly and endlessly on any matters of opinion in which you can support your position with anything from "the sky is blue so I'm right about X" to "you're a big meanie for using your opinion to counter my opinion so I'm gonna ignore you now."

Get real.
How using capslock wins arguments:
Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby MarbitChow » Tue May 21, 2013 4:34 pm

Oberon wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:The author has spent time explaining every single detail about Erfworld.
Um, no he hasn't. He has explained a lot, but usually the things he explains are those which are required as foreshadowing for the story in the future, or as an explanation for something we've just seen.
I only meant that in the sense that he explained everything vs. letting us believe it was similar to reality, not that he's already provided a comprehensive list of all of Erfworld's details. Every aspect of Erfworld that has been introduced has differed from our reality in some respect, and he's noted how that aspect differs. There's been almost nothing that was introduced that was just like our reality.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby drachefly » Tue May 21, 2013 5:41 pm

What you just said is a lot more reasonable than its quote-grandparent.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Salem » Tue May 21, 2013 5:51 pm

Kreistor wrote:You are either done with me, or you aren't. I am done with Drach entirely and will no longer recognize his opinion-based objections to my theories, which is what that quote is about. You are trying to twist that into a dismissal of Drach's theories themselves, which is an out-of-context application of my complaint. If you are throwing that quote at me, you are done with me, too.

Perhaps an anecdote will make you understand.

my childhood wrote:My father had a policy. Since I was the oldest, and male, any physical conflict with my younger sisters was my fault. Older, wiser, and a boy, if there was any physical violence, it was my fault. I should be able to avoid it, shouldn't I?

One day, about age 12, my 11 year-old sister (and since puberty hits girls first, larger than me at the time) sat down beside me as I played with my Lego. (Yeah, no hints I'd be an Engineer at all.) After a minute or two, she turned and slugged me hard on the shoulder. I just pushed her away (relatively gently), and said, "Quit it," and tried to play with my Lego again.

She slugged me again, harder and laughing about it. So, I had no choice: I wrestled her back. I wasn't that much smaller, and I was a better fighter. That's what she wanted, of course.

Moments later, *stomp*stomp* "What's going on down here?" my father shouted as he descended the stairs. "Both of you to your rooms!"

"But dad," I protested.

"To your rooms!"

So I did. Grabbed a book, started reading, as I always did. Books were my retreat, and I was perfectly happy alone and reading.

Dad came in after about three minutes. "Chris, I saw the whole thing. I was sitting at the top of the stairs. She hit you for absolutely no reason. There was nothing you could do to stop it, and she left you no choice in how to deal with her. I'm sorry. I won't assume you're at fault anymore. This happened because I created the environment where she could do anything she wanted to you and you'd get punished for it. You can leave your room if you want. I'm sorry."


It is easy to victimize someone. All you need to do is find a reason to make others think your target deserves to be hurt. I watch for it everywhere, and I see it in this community. You have decided that because of my methods, anything anyone does to me is fine. I deserve it.

When you've shut off your brain, you create victims.

I'm done with Drach. I've seen enough to know that he is looking for a victim, not trying to reasonably discuss issues. I'm not attacking people. I'm attacking ideas. You confuse that with attacking people, because you don't like my language or style. Maybe Drach thinks I need to be driven out. I dunno his motivations, but Drach isn't attacking ideas now, he's attacking me. He hides it well, but that last stretch was the final evidence I needed to know what he is. You're not looking at it, because you've decided that I deserve anything I get. I can't be victimized, because I hurt people? False on its face.

Whenever you say, "He deserves it," you have fallen to prejudice and created a victim. Vigilance about your own attitudes towards people is the only defense against prejudicial creation of victims.

So, are you done with me as you implied? I can and will respond on your issues, but if you're done, then stop engaging me. Engagement invites defense. I can't defend if you don't engage. And I will not accept that particular interpretation of my complaints wrt Drach, because they are inaccurate and out of context.


I'm gonna call the BS train in on this one and it choo choo chooooses you.

While you are right you're also kind of wrong. You use your history and your feeling victimized to do the same crap. You're emotionally abusive to the members of this forum and you justify it by saying they react poorly to your being rude and mean. Mude. You're very mude.

Yes creating the environment you speak of is bad. But how you seem to want the story to continue is.

Then I just beat the crap out of my sister and she always got blamed, score!

You call people's ideas stupid then go Oh my, how did that offend you. or Your idea was an epic, EPIC, fail. Oh my how did that offend you.

You can disagree with someone's idea without insulting them OR the idea. Yes pointing out how someone's argument can be absurd is valid, but be careful it can be mean. Compare.

Man that was stupid, that was an epic fail of ideahood. - Possible interpretation - The thinker of said idea is not as smart as the speaker of insult. Or is just normally dumb.

I can see where you're coming from but I think this makes the conclusion you arrive at unsound. - Pretty straight forward.

I don't see how your premises lead to your conclusion, would you explain? - Not perfect but not mean.

I think your premises are unsound. I'm not sure it's accurate to say that things always fall in a downward direction. - Stuff.

Point is you're MEAN, note the capitalization. People are more likely to take what you say out of context because you have a history of being insulting, sarcastic, dismissive, rude, and not nice. So they assume any statement you make with some ambiguity leans in those directions. Because of your history if you want to be thought of as nice you have to spend more effort. Is it fair? Maybe not, but it is what it is.

Just don't be a hypocrite, you can't call others bullies and victimizers when you do the similar things. Pot.

P.S. No quotation marks were used in the making of this post as they offend some people.

P.S.S. I like to think of myself as nice, in general. But I have an ass streak. It's a fact. I'm not being a hypocrite here. I am assuming when you speak you're trying to be mean to people and I respond accordingly. If you were to do an accounting of my actions I'm at best alright. Definitely not great, or good.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Salem » Tue May 21, 2013 6:13 pm

effataigus wrote:
ftl wrote:Instead, I've been advocating filling in the blanks with something similar to what you suggest:
I mean, I think we know enough about Erfworld to take a good guess!
Put another way, we should stop using "Like Reality Unless Otherwise Noted" to apply to ideas for which otherwise has been oft noted, and use "Like Erfworld unless noted" when it has not.


Sorry for the double post, just the last one was very long.

I think what we need is a middle ground. I think fate should be based on erfknowledge entirely. But unknowns I think we can use Earth. Erf is like Earth but through a mirror rather strangely. So as for the river example "In earth crossing the river possibly is not an option "depending on factors such as current and depth." So we can surmize that Erfworld might have a mechanic that bars passing, such as requiring a special or causing a "chance to die" or siege can not cross even streams.

So I think it's fair enough to use Earth as a basis for thinking erf might have rules goverining subject A.

Though as far as fate is concerned I think the concept as applied in fiction should not use earth as a basis at all. Since fate in most stories is more active than determinism. Which is the closest non religious/superstitious idea for fate on earth. Additionally, saying think of Earth, when people are pointing out facts they think hint at fate being an active player in erf is an incorrect argument. Since they're saying it deviates from earth because A B C. You want to say A is faulty, B is not strong enough, and C is just whack.

Edit: Another good example would be math. I would suspect that math works the same in erfworld. If I have 1,000,000 shmuckers and spend 300,000 I should have 700,000. However Erf might subtract automatic taxes, but that still should fit in. As far as math is expected to work if not spending. Such as if I have a stack of four and add four more I have a stack of eight which is great.

Edit 2: Has jumping ever come up in Erfworld, I've always wondered. We know your foot can leave the ground, but they say any fall no matter how short can be fatal. Does a jump count as a fall. I would NEVER ask this about earth. Grant a jump can kill you. But on Erfworld I'd be worried that chance is non trivial. It may or may not be. But we can assume if he jumps up he will land on his feet. It's this weird pseudo similar thing I think that causes confusion. Unlike reading a fantasy novel we can assume that "It's like earth but different." We can assume units can drown, but... it's different. It's not so crazy that it's rand mcnalley and drowning might heal you. We're not suspecting that. Fire doesn't grow plants. Fire works differently but also similarly it burns it destroys it damages it just goes about it weird.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby TheOnlyJeff » Tue May 21, 2013 6:33 pm

I've lurked around here since Book 1, and I finally registered just to say that is unbelievable how much of an unaware jerk Kreistor is and that I have no idea how you all put up with him.

And that I'm pretty sure the 98% was the true chance of casting the spell, until Fate intercedes to reduce it to 0.0. But mainly that that guy is a huge jerk.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Salem » Tue May 21, 2013 6:35 pm

TheOnlyJeff wrote:I've lurked around here since Book 1, and I finally registered just to say that is unbelievable how much of an unaware jerk Kreistor is and that I have no idea how you all put up with him.

And that I'm pretty sure the 98% was the true chance of casting the spell, until Fate intercedes to reduce it to 0.0. But mainly that that guy is a huge jerk.

There's no report mechanic to my knowledge.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby drachefly » Tue May 21, 2013 6:41 pm

Salem wrote:
TheOnlyJeff wrote:I've lurked around here since Book 1, and I finally registered just to say that is unbelievable how much of an unaware jerk Kreistor is and that I have no idea how you all put up with him.

And that I'm pretty sure the 98% was the true chance of casting the spell, until Fate intercedes to reduce it to 0.0. But mainly that that guy is a huge jerk.

There's no report mechanic to my knowledge.

What do you mean? The exclamation mark button next to the quote button. That said, I'm not sure anything here needs to be reported. Being a jerk may be against the rules, but I'm not sure that taking administrative action against Kriestor would be the best thing to do.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby Salem » Tue May 21, 2013 6:53 pm

drachefly wrote:
Salem wrote:
TheOnlyJeff wrote:I've lurked around here since Book 1, and I finally registered just to say that is unbelievable how much of an unaware jerk Kreistor is and that I have no idea how you all put up with him.

And that I'm pretty sure the 98% was the true chance of casting the spell, until Fate intercedes to reduce it to 0.0. But mainly that that guy is a huge jerk.

There's no report mechanic to my knowledge.

What do you mean? The exclamation mark button next to the quote button. That said, I'm not sure anything here needs to be reported. Being a jerk may be against the rules, but I'm not sure that taking administrative action against Kriestor would be the best thing to do.

I thought it sounded funny also I never noticed it. We all have a tendancy to be a bit abrasive. Such as "What are you talking about" when clearly I was simply wrong.

That being said. I wouldn't think twice about anyone who reported him. He is asking for it the way he acts. He's just mean. He's offensive and he hurts the community by making people not want to be a part of it.

Edit: Also note the passive agressiveness of my post. That was intentional for emphasis.
Last edited by Salem on Tue May 21, 2013 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 059

Postby drachefly » Tue May 21, 2013 6:57 pm

I actually wasn't entirely sure what you meant.
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