Flat Erf Theory

Speculation, discoveries, complaints, accusations, praise, and all other Erfworld discussion.

Re: Flat Erf Theory

Postby ftl » Wed May 29, 2013 9:22 pm

It only matters if Erf is small enough that circumnavigating it is feasible. If it takes ten thousand turns by dwagon to go around it, it might as well be infinite.

If it was finite, that would matter to the sides on the edge, but probably not to the sides far away from the edge. Right now, it really doesn't matter to anybody in GK whether erfworld is infinite, or whether it's finite but you can loop around it if you travel for a long time, or whether it's finite but the edge is really far away.
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Re: Flat Erf Theory

Postby Intocabille_CZ » Thu May 30, 2013 2:01 am

Lilwik wrote:We actually have a pretty good idea of what the Magic Kingdom looks like from Book 1 Page 11. It seems to be entirely contained in a single hex, though we can't rule out the possibility that it exists in some different kind of place where there are no hexes, since I see no hex boundaries and it would seem to break some pretty fundamental rules if there were a way to get to the Magic Kingdom without going through a portal. Either way, the finite size of Portal Park strongly suggests that Erfworld has a finite number of capital sites.


Is MK having just 5 sides instead of hexagon´s 6? Orange-Red-Green; Green-Grey?; Grey?-Purple; Purple-Yellow; Yellow-Blue; Large Dark Green.
It is deformed and skewed, but perhaps could be considered 5 sided. Then... can you not make a sphere out of hexagons with use of some pentagons?

MadZuri wrote:Hexes can tile a toroid, and it would loop both north/south and east/west.


Halo reference? :-)
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Re: Flat Erf Theory

Postby drachefly » Thu May 30, 2013 9:47 am

Large ringlike structures in space were seen in science fiction loooong before Halo.
Last edited by drachefly on Thu May 30, 2013 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flat Erf Theory

Postby Shai_hulud » Thu May 30, 2013 2:37 pm

SteveMB wrote:In any case, it seems to be the sort of question that an Erfworlder would dismiss as pointless -- if it mattered, there's be a kind of unit that popped with the knowledge or it would spontaneously appear in the city library.

They might think that, but we shouldn't. If you think map shape is unimportant, then you don't know anything about strategy games.
ftl wrote:It only matters if Erf is small enough that circumnavigating it is feasible. If it takes ten thousand turns by dwagon to go around it, it might as well be infinite.

Right. Because it's not like they have a relay system that allows for infinite move in a single turn using those same dwagons.
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Re: Flat Erf Theory

Postby drachefly » Thu May 30, 2013 2:57 pm

Only if you have enough dwagons already laid out along a clear flight path. Impractical so far in Erf history. Maybe it'll come up eventually.

As for extent, I think there would be high outward pressure whenever sides split off colony sides rather than disband surplus units or go to unwinnable wars (which is not to say that this condition always applies, but when it does, there'll be outward pressure)
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Re: Flat Erf Theory

Postby SteveMB » Thu May 30, 2013 3:05 pm

Shai_hulud wrote:
SteveMB wrote:In any case, it seems to be the sort of question that an Erfworlder would dismiss as pointless -- if it mattered, there's be a kind of unit that popped with the knowledge or it would spontaneously appear in the city library.

They might think that, but we shouldn't. If you think map shape is unimportant, then you don't know anything about strategy games.


The shape of Erfworld in a topological sense (i.e. do north-south and east-west wrap around the way they do on a sphere or a torus) might or might not be relevant to the Great Game of Erfworld, depending on how large the size of the world compares to the practical reach of any side. The fact that it hasn't come up, even in conjunction with the huge size of Haffaton at its peak, points to a "not" answer.

Admittedly, "the practical reach of any side" seems to be one of the things changed by Parson's actions (i.e. the dwagon-relay system).
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Flat Erf Theory

Postby drachefly » Thu May 30, 2013 3:32 pm

That, and decryption, which, in principle, frees a side from diminishing schmuckers.
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Re: Flat Erf Theory

Postby Lamech » Thu May 30, 2013 5:05 pm

Most sides probably don't consider publishing map info good form. And soon to be barbarian casters probably consider loading up on mundane maps the most important things to move into the MK. On top of that since hexes can change certain properties overtime Note here how Goodmitton is no longer so snowy, or forest hexes can be burned to ash. Worse sides that really do believe map information is important may just outright spread misinformation. And there probably isn't any central MK organization of getting solid map information. And if there was they would charge a lot.

Which all adds up to being map information painful and annoying to assemble.

On that, note Erfworld has teleportation magic, can twist time into knots and scrying magic. For all we know, those hex "borders" could be portals/scrying walls. Which would make the overall "shape" of Erfworld rather pointless. We don't need no stinking Euclidean geometry. Erfworld could have all sorts of crazy loops. It could go on forever. It could loop around in all sorts of crazy ways. Or countless other things.
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Re: Flat Erf Theory

Postby Shai_hulud » Thu May 30, 2013 9:29 pm

Yeah, I'm already thinking about non euclidean maps, and mass produced paddle wheels/dolls. I'm also thinking about digging straight down and flying straight up, to test whether the world is like Age of Wonders/Metal Fatigue, as well as checking underwater.Their are TBS games where you can circumnavigate the world with the right techs/items in game. It's not an unimportant issue in the long term.
drachefly wrote:That, and decryption, which, in principle, frees a side from diminishing schmuckers.
To be fair, it seems flower power could do this too, if you had a way to transport food. Otherwise farming based natural allies and barbarians wouldn't exist I think.
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