Zeku wrote:I don't think you followed the argument. Whether the simulation is deterministic or not, it's still not fate. It is either causation or chaos.
The "emperor" in your example is also not fate, he is a manipulator.
And to the other poster
It 100% matters what the agent of control is. If we just call it 'fate' it is an assumption that predestination exists, without knowing the form. This is not predestination, since you don't even know for sure that you are predestined. It's "speculation" which is not the same as fate, by any definition.
My gripe is that Fate is capitalized like it's a real thing. Sure, Fate magic exists within Erfworld. That simply means that the predictamancers are gloriously effective at narrowing down divergent possibilities into one outcome that they desire, or it means that the read the signs which reference to an external being's will, or..... they observe the holistic, total effect of all causal events within Erfworld.
This last possibility would mean that "early events" guarantee very specific outcomes at a later time in Erfworld. (These are the first few words in the comic) In other words, the butterfly effect works differently in Erfworld. But that is just Erfworld determinism, not Fate. This would imply that the Erfworld Big Bang decided how everything was going to turn out billions of years ahead of time. That works for me, but it makes Erfworld a universe without any free will, or decision making power.
What is Parson then? If Fate exists, how is he making decisions? Is he destroying a purely deterministic world with his decision making power? Doesn't that make him a God? What is 'Fate' in the presence of a God?
But the thing is, in Erfrworld, we know
what Fate is (more or less.) It's a cheat. It's an explicit magical force or supernatural law (the distinction is not necessarily meaningful in Erfworld) that manipulates events towards specific ends. You might object to people calling that "fate" (since, yeah, it doesn't match what some people mean when they use the term), and sure -- you're not wrong in saying that Fate in Erfworld more properly resembles a discrete external being.
But it's not like that's a new thing, either -- I mean, it's not like that definition of Fate (as a specific actor or set of actors who directly manipulates the world towards certain ends, generally determined by what they say is "necessary") is at all new. In fact, our very word for Fate, comes from the term for the three Greek goddesses (the Moirai
, or Fata) who supposedly spun out the destiny of all things. Fate, as originally defined by the Greeks, was entirely governed by explicit manipulators! In fact, it isn't a stretch to say that one definition of Fate, in a religious world, is "the plan written by the gods."
Erfworld is sort-of a religious world -- its Titans take the place of gods -- so it's not-unlikely that Fate is something they designed, a grand plan which they designed the magic of the universe (or one axis of its magic) to consciously enforce. This is no different than the vast majority of interpretations of Fate throughout real-world history.